98 concorde starting problems

David wrote:

> OK, Are you finished arguing with every single post?
>
> Christ I don't know who's worst AARCuda who has yet to diagnos anything,
> Really have you actually posted anything to help an OP? No seriously? Have
> you. I googled haven't found one!
>
> And Bill, What the ****, are you ASE certified? No, Do you own every year
> and model of the LH series? No! So you are not an expert!

I see. So by your own new standard, if somebody doesn't own every model and
year of the LH series they are not qualified to post to r.a.m.c. :-)

>
>
> And airplanes are not even similar to any Vehicle, So shut the **** up.

Yet somethings are in common to piston gasoline airplanes and piston gasoline
automobiles, such as the reason for adding fuel recirculation.

>
>
> So guess what, All three of you babies, should get a time out and sit on the
> stairs and think of what you did. ( one minute per year of age)

Speak for yourself.....

> Actually none of you know the problem! That's right. Neither of you. Unless
> you are looking at the actual vehicle you know nothing. Symptoms are not the
> same for all vehicle so shut the **** up?

Neither Bill nor I attempted to diagnosis anything over the Internet. I did
post excerpts from Chrysler Corporation service bulletins which referred to the
symptoms and exact model year of vehicle because I believe it can be of value to
some people.

> That's it thats all! Any lip from you and you'll get the black snake across
> your asses.

Uh huh.

"" wrote:
> In article >,
> Greg Houston > wrote:
>
> > aarcuda69062 wrote:
> >
> > > In article >,
> > > Greg Houston > wrote:
> > >
> > > > There are service bulletins issued by Chrysler for vapor
> lock conditions
> > > > on
> > > > the
> > > > pressure side in the pump (more specifically inside the
> engine
> > > > compartment)
> > > > for
> > > > some M.Y. 1998 LH vehicles.
> > >
> > > Greg, you might want to go back and re-read the OPs post,
> the
> > > hard/no start occurs under two conditions;
> > > 1) Low fuel level
> > > 2) Ambient above 70 degrees
> > >
> > > Neither one of these conditions is worth attributing to
> vapor
> > > lock.
> > > Hell, I just drove over 100 miles on Sunday in 100 degree
> heat in
> > > a carbureted car with an engine mounted mechanical fuel
> pump, the
> > > coolant was running at over 230 degrees, the gasoline is
> > > reformulated **** water and I experienced absolutely no
> evidence
> > > of vapor lock.
> > >
> > > Sorry, at 72 degrees, he doesn't have vapor lock.
> >
> > You are mistaken original post. xmirage2kxsaid that the
> problem occurs
> > "when
> > its low on gas, and when its hot." He also said that 80% of
> the time it is
> > over 70
> > degrees/sunny outside. As discussed in Chrysler's TSB,
> vapor lock is caused
> > by
> > heat from the engine, not ambient heat, although an engine
> cools more slowly
> > when
> > ambient temp is higher. Your experience with a carbureted
> car is not
> > relevant to
> > the discussion; the discussion (and the Vapor Lock TSB for
> that matter) is
> > about a
> > 1998 Concorde.
>
> So where does xmirage2kx say that this is a "heat from the
> engine" problem.
>
> He cites two criteria;
> 1) Low fuel level.
> So explain how low fuel level contributes to vapor lock
> 2) 80% of the time it's over 70 degrees and sunny out.
> So, explain how either of these conditions contribute to the
> "engine heat" situation that is germane to the TSB you keep
> crowing about?
>
> Or is that you just don't get it?
> The TSB doesn't apply.
> Wrong diagnosis.
> Warranty claim rejected.
> Money spent, customer screwed again.
> I will not argue that there is apparently a problem of sorts
> that
> the TSB addresses, never said there wasn't.
>
> You guys have never met a wild goose chase that you didn't
> love,
> have you?
>
> Just proves the old adage....
>
> A TSB in the wrong hands is dangerous.

well to answer a few questions Ive been hit with in this post. its a
3.2L engine. and its got 98k miles on it. as for vapor lock and tsb
and all that other tech stuff, how does it apply to my car? all i’m
looking for is something i can do o have someone do to make my car
work. when the engine is running the car runs great. I wanna know how
the mild heat from the sun makes the car not run when the 500+degree
temps of the engine doesnt make a difference. or even just what is
causeing it.

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xmirage2kx wrote:

> well to answer a few questions Ive been hit with in this post. its a
> 3.2L engine. and its got 98k miles on it. as for vapor lock and tsb
> and all that other tech stuff, how does it apply to my car? all i=92m
> looking for is something i can do o have someone do to make my car
> work. when the engine is running the car runs great. I wanna know how
> the mild heat from the sun makes the car not run when the 500+degree
> temps of the engine doesnt make a difference. or even just what is
> causeing it.

The TSB is a factory service bulletin that applies to '98 Concordes that =
have the symptoms of problems starting
when the engine is warm or engine running rough after restart when the en=
gine was warm. Earlier you had stated
that the problems occurred with you car "when its low on gas, and when it=
s hot."

Nobody can diagnose your vehicle over the Internet, but read my post wher=
e I included information from the
factory's TSB. If it were my car I would follow the diagnostic procedur=
es in the service manual and this TSB,
starting with the TSB. Its diagnostic test is fairly simple if you have =
a fuel pressure gauge. Your car may
require a new fuel pump module and/or a software update. Or it may be so=
mething else completely, again, can't
diagnose a vehicle over the Internet.

David wrote:

> OK, Are you finished arguing with every single post?
>
> Christ I don't know who's worst AARCuda who has yet to diagnos anything,
> Really have you actually posted anything to help an OP? No seriously? Have
> you. I googled haven't found one!
>
> And Bill, What the ****, are you ASE certified? No, Do you own every year
> and model of the LH series? No! So you are not an expert!

Please quote one of my posts in this thread that warrants that comment.
I have no idea why you would say that.


> And airplanes are not even similar to any Vehicle, So shut the **** up.

Why do you and aarcuda keep attributing airplane comments to me. I have
not once mentioned airplanes.


> So guess what, All three of you babies, should get a time out and sit on the
> stairs and think of what you did. ( one minute per year of age)
>
> Actually none of you know the problem! That's right. Neither of you. Unless
> you are looking at the actual vehicle you know nothing. Symptoms are not the
> same for all vehicle so shut the **** up?

And who said they were?

The TSB that Greg quoted said: "Symptom: Hot engine no start, hot engine
restart w/ rough idle, or hot engine start/die-out. May have misfire
DTCs. ... May not restart until cools. Fuel vapor build up in the fuel
rail may be the cause."

Why is it a bad thing that Greg suggests that the OP follow the TSB in
this particular case since his symtpoms are pretty close to that, and it
applies to the exact vehicle.

Again, please quote me where your comments apply. My original post in
its entirety was: "Have it checked for codes.

"Has anyone mentioned crank or cam position sensors to you? Also, if
the problem is intermittent, I don't see how someone could rule out fuel
system (pump) - unless they caught it in the act of failing and
determined that the pump was indeed working when it wouldn't start, in
which case they should have been able to isolate the problem."

Is that so terrible? I think aarcuda is saying that the problem is in
the fuel pump/sender assembly. But if I suggest that as a possibility
in contradiction of what the OP has been told by the mechanics he's
consulted, I get hammered. I can't win with you and aarcuda.

> That's it thats all! Any lip from you and you'll get the black snake across
> your asses.

I think much of what you have to say is totally unwarranted.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

In article
<1_637120_e2e6625a400b90d1a6c97578f381a3ad@autofor umz.com>,
xmirage2kx > wrote:


> > A TSB in the wrong hands is dangerous.
>
> well to answer a few questions Ive been hit with in this post. its a
> 3.2L engine. and its got 98k miles on it. as for vapor lock and tsb
> and all that other tech stuff, how does it apply to my car? all i’m
> looking for is something i can do o have someone do to make my car
> work. when the engine is running the car runs great. I wanna know how
> the mild heat from the sun makes the car not run when the 500+degree
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> temps of the engine doesnt make a difference. or even just what is
> causeing it.

See that you bunch of blow hards.

Like I said, none of you so called engineers can read worth a
****. Just a bunch of frustrated Dilberts stuck in their
cubicles -wishing- they could do something constructive.
You all make me laugh.

Greg, nice job in those last few posts, how convenient that you
left off where he said; "about 80% of the time when its above 70
or a sunny day even " That makes you a sneak and a liar.

In article <qBWFe.158848$go.154666@fed1read05>,
"David" > wrote:

> OK, Are you finished arguing with every single post?
>
> Christ I don't know who's worst AARCuda who has yet to diagnos anything,
> Really have you actually posted anything to help an OP? No seriously? Have
> you. I googled haven't found one!

You must be new here. Sorry, but if you aren't familiar with the
other names that I've posted under, you'd probably come to the
wrong conclusion that you have. Hard to be directly helpful when
the signal to noise ratio gets as high as it is, these soccer
daddy mechanics tend to send people on wild goose chases, and
they can't stand the thought of someone who has dirt under their
fingernails knowing the root reasons and causes for these
problems, thus, all the sneering and puffery.

> And Bill, What the ****, are you ASE certified? No, Do you own every year
> and model of the LH series? No! So you are not an expert!

Bill is a cheapskate who fixes what he can on his own cars and
farms the rest out and then complains about the cost... fancies
himself to be skilled. He's a legend in his own mind. He knows
two things, chilly-willy brake rotors and where the input and
output speed sensors are on 41te/41le transmissions.
He thinks I'm jealous of him and anyone who went to college,
which really doesn't make any sense since I get along fine with
many other engineers and college educated people who frequent
this (and other) newsgroup(s). He's totally befuddled by the
fact that I have no respect for him because he's a full of
himself blow hard.

> And airplanes are not even similar to any Vehicle, So shut the **** up.

Bravo! There are enough differences in the fuel alone to make
the comparison a red herring.
Yet, for some reason, Matt Whiting feels compelled to remind us
on a regular basis that he's a airplane pilot and that makes him
smarter than anyone else.
(Matt, no one cares)

> So guess what, All three of you babies, should get a time out and sit on the
> stairs and think of what you did. ( one minute per year of age)

I'll consider your request.

> Actually none of you know the problem! That's right. Neither of you. Unless
> you are looking at the actual vehicle you know nothing. Symptoms are not the
> same for all vehicle so shut the **** up?

Actually, I do know the problem, it's a very common one and
has/had been the subject of discussion in a professional forum
many years ago.
Where the confusion starts is that Chrysler expects their
mechanics to do the normal routine diagnostics -FIRST- and then
check to see if any TSBs APPLY. These numbskulls with the
assistance of one Glen Beasley (Mr. Back-flag his time ticket) do
things backwards, hence the saying; a TSB in the wrong hands is a
dangerous thing. (even when a dealership mechanic is involved)

> That's it thats all! Any lip from you and you'll get the black snake across
> your asses.

Well, nice chatting with you. Let's sit back and wait for the
comments from the brain trust. (should be good for some laughs
and yucks)

In article >,
Bill Putney > wrote:

> aarcuda69062 wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Bill Putney > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>aarcuda69062 wrote:
>
> > And I'm sorry that you're stuck in your cubicle doing the Dilbert
> > thing worrying about when your job will be sent to India.
>
> 'er you go again letting your emotions run away with you causing you to
> make false assumptions again. If you knew what I did for a living,
> you'd know that there was no way.

Oh, I hadn't realized that you'd gone back to spitting tobacco
for a living.

>
> >>So your logic is: (1) Some engineer did a crappy system design (2) I am
> >>an engineer (3) Therefore I am stupid too.
> >
> >
> > Yup, you got it.
> > Couldn't help but notice that you have two things to contribute
> > to rec.autos.makers.chrysler
> > 1) replace the input or out speed sensors on your 41te/41le
> > 2) put cryogenically treated brake rotors on your ________, (fill
> > in the blank).
> >
> > You're a two trick pony.
>
> Whad ya do? A google search on my name to check past stuff.

No Dilbert, I've been here a long long time and my memory works
just fine.

> Weird. I
> have a few more tricks than those which if you really kept up instead of
> doing a quick search you'd know.

The wheel bearing thing doesn't count since it only works some of
the time. Stethoscope is the only sure fire method.

> Oh - BTW - you might also learn some cool stuff about grain structure in
> metals from taking a couple of materials science courses
> (again - at your nearby engineering school). Then you'd understand why
> cryogenic treatements work. But you really don't want to know, do you.

Bill, I never said that cryogenics -didn't- work, now did I?

Ya see, the thing is, I have a car very identical to yours, it
has cheap chinese rotors on it and has had for quite a few
years/miles, no chilly-willy, no RT rotors. My brake rotors
don't warp, but then, I DO know how to do a proper brake job.
The fact that you've needed to resort to cryogenic treatment of
your rotors to solve a problem just means to me that you can't
solve the root problem and probably shouldn't go anywhere near
brake components.

Please, post some more wet dreams, they're quite humorous.

David wrote:

> OK, Are you finished arguing with every single post?
>
> Christ I don't know who's worst AARCuda who has yet to diagnos anything,
> Really have you actually posted anything to help an OP? No seriously? Have
> you. I googled haven't found one!
>
> And Bill, What the ****, are you ASE certified? No, Do you own every year
> and model of the LH series? No! So you are not an expert!
>
> And airplanes are not even similar to any Vehicle, So shut the **** up.
>
> So guess what, All three of you babies, should get a time out and sit on the
> stairs and think of what you did. ( one minute per year of age)
>
> Actually none of you know the problem! That's right. Neither of you. Unless
> you are looking at the actual vehicle you know nothing. Symptoms are not the
> same for all vehicle so shut the **** up?
>
> That's it thats all! Any lip from you and you'll get the black snake across
> your asses.

Is it a full moon again already?

Matt

"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> David wrote:
>
>> OK, Are you finished arguing with every single post?
>>
>> Christ I don't know who's worst AARCuda who has yet to diagnos anything,
>> Really have you actually posted anything to help an OP? No seriously?
>> Have you. I googled haven't found one!
>>
>> And Bill, What the ****, are you ASE certified? No, Do you own every year
>> and model of the LH series? No! So you are not an expert!
>>
>> And airplanes are not even similar to any Vehicle, So shut the **** up.
>>
>> So guess what, All three of you babies, should get a time out and sit on
>> the stairs and think of what you did. ( one minute per year of age)
>>
>> Actually none of you know the problem! That's right. Neither of you.
>> Unless you are looking at the actual vehicle you know nothing. Symptoms
>> are not the same for all vehicle so shut the **** up?
>>
>> That's it thats all! Any lip from you and you'll get the black snake
>> across your asses.
>
> Is it a full moon again already?
>
> Matt

Could be my calander does not show the cycles!

Matt Whiting wrote:

> David wrote:
>
>> OK, Are you finished arguing with every single post?
>>
>> Christ I don't know who's worst AARCuda who has yet to diagnos
>> anything, Really have you actually posted anything to help an OP? No
>> seriously? Have you. I googled haven't found one!
>>
>> And Bill, What the ****, are you ASE certified? No, Do you own every
>> year and model of the LH series? No! So you are not an expert!
>>
>> And airplanes are not even similar to any Vehicle, So shut the **** up.
>>
>> So guess what, All three of you babies, should get a time out and sit
>> on the stairs and think of what you did. ( one minute per year of age)
>>
>> Actually none of you know the problem! That's right. Neither of you.
>> Unless you are looking at the actual vehicle you know nothing.
>> Symptoms are not the same for all vehicle so shut the **** up?
>>
>> That's it thats all! Any lip from you and you'll get the black snake
>> across your asses.
>
>
> Is it a full moon again already?
>
> Matt

That's got to be what it is. The combination of that and parasites in
the brain.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')