Saddest day of the year....

In article >, pws > wrote:

> We had this discussion about how you found Deal's Gap to be a massive
> disappoint long ago, and my response of a negative opinion to that based
> on my own experience. At least we both find it to be scenic.

I haven't driven Deal's Gap, but I have driven many other roads in the
Appalachians. They're nice, if you can catch them without traffic.

US191 is in a different league. Easterners tend to freak out over the
sheer drops and lack of guardrails, not to mention the occasional lack
of an entire lane that's fallen away into a canyon. Instead of 11 miles,
the "good part" lasts about 50 miles--mostly in first and second
gear--like a marathon autocross where missing a gate exacts a rather
sterner penalty than a few seconds added to one's time. Given the stakes
and the blindness of some turns, a measure of prudence is required.

It's *really* fun in the rain.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C

Lanny Chambers wrote:

> US191 is in a different league. Easterners tend to freak out over the
> sheer drops and lack of guardrails, not to mention the occasional lack
> of an entire lane that's fallen away into a canyon.

Hopefully it is not just the Easterners who tend freak out when the
roadway falls away into a canyon.
Having the roadway disappear is a big deal, as are plunges off of sheer
cliff sides.

This sounds like an interesting road to drive. It also sounds like a
foolhardy decision to do any kind of true high-spirited driving on it.

I really do not need to add the possibility of falling off a cliff side
to increase my driving pleasure.
Wondering if there will still be a roadway ahead doesn't sound like it
will do it for me either.

Pat

Lanny Chambers wrote:

>Given the stakes and the blindness of some turns, a measure of prudence is required.

I find that a measure of prudence is required on any public road,
whether it has blind turns or not.

If someone is tearing it up at Deal's Gap, US191, or anywhere else and
they crash alone, no big deal, they have made their decision and it only
kills or injures the decision-maker.

The problem is that we share these roadways with others, so it becomes
extremely irresponsible to haul ass on the same roads that they are on.

I know that I could not live with myself if my need for "attacking
roads" took someone else out, and I am glad that it never happened
before I quit driving like that, which was about 18 years ago when I was 20.

Pat

I found both the drive from Flagstaff to Sedona, Arizona (down Sedona
canyon), and the "loop" through Copper Point, Eagle Harbor and Eagle
River, Upper Michigan to be not only more fun, but more scenic as well.
The drive in Michigan is a real roller coaster and some with lowered
Miatae have complained of bottoming out. I had more trouble with
getting airborne.The drive in Arizona has uphill hairpins with lots
of banking (make sure all items are secure in the car as the first one I
really laid into all non-secured items flew about) and the scenery is simply
breathtaking.

We spent most of Deal's gap stuck behind a bunch of geriatric fat asses on
Harleys, which were everywhere.

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "XS11E" >
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 1:15 PM
Subject: Saddest day of the year....


> pws > wrote:
>
>> XS11E wrote:
>>
>>> Not to disappoint you.... it is pretty tame and usually crowded.
>>
>> I found Deals Gap to be far from tame, as tame roads do not
>> usually have multiple hairpin turns on them.
>>
>> Also, I don't go there often enough to know what is is usually
>> like as far as crowds.
>> Where do you get your updated information on this pretty tame road
>> that is more that halfway across the country from you?
>
> From having ridden it more than once.
>
>
> --
> XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
> The Usenet Improvement Project:
> http://improve-usenet.org

"XS11E" > wrote in message
. ..
> pws > wrote:
>
>> XS11E wrote:
>>
>>> Not to disappoint you.... it is pretty tame and usually crowded.
>>
>> I found Deals Gap to be far from tame, as tame roads do not
>> usually have multiple hairpin turns on them.
>>
>> Also, I don't go there often enough to know what is is usually
>> like as far as crowds.
>> Where do you get your updated information on this pretty tame road
>> that is more that halfway across the country from you?
>
> From having ridden it more than once.
>
>
> --
> XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
> The Usenet Improvement Project:
> http://improve-usenet.org

> and the "loop" through Copper Point, Eagle Harbor and Eagle
> River, Upper Michigan to be not only more fun, but more scenic as well.
> The drive in Michigan is a real roller coaster and some with lowered
> Miatae have complained of bottoming out. I had more trouble with
> getting airborne.

That's one of my favorites as well but I haven't done it in the Miata yet,
only on bikes (last time was in the rain!)

miker

>> I found both the drive from Flagstaff to Sedona, Arizona (down
>> Sedona canyon),

<snip>

>> The drive in Arizona has uphill hairpins with lots of banking
>> (make sure all items are secure in the car as the first one I
>> really laid into all non-secured items flew about) and the
>> scenery is simply breathtaking.

I'd much enjoy that in the Miata, I've only done that on a
motorcycle. Unfortunately, the times I've done it on a bike have
too often been with slow traffic. It does, however, allow you to
pay more attention to the scenery

Nobody's mentioned US 60 through the Salt River Canyon. The
wonderfully scenic and most curvy part of the drive is fairly short
and often marred by slow traffic but the views are comparable to
those you might see if you were able to drive through the Grand
Canyon!

I've done almost none of the great local road in the Miata, I need to
get out more....


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org

miker wrote:

> That's one of my favorites as well but I haven't done it in the Miata yet,
> only on bikes (last time was in the rain!)
>
> miker

It is just a matter of personal preference. I like lots of water, lots
of green plants, and I only like sand at the coast.

No big deal, just different likes and dislikes. To me, this:

http://www.jackeaux.com/images/2002/...eals_Gap4.jpeg

Looks a lot better than this:

http://www.sylviastuurman.nl/stories...9/IMG_7523.jpg

So far, within the United States, I have driven in TX, NM, AZ, NV, OK,
GA, AR, MO, KY, MS, IN, OH, LA, AL, TN, SC & NC.
Texas, Tennessee and Arizona are the three that I have seen the most of,
in that order.

That leaves a lot of places left to see, but only the NC/TN border area
has me really wanting to go back.
It is not the road at Deals Gap that has me wanting to go there in
particular, the people and scenery were the major attractions to me.

Pat

In article >, pws >
wrote:

> Hopefully it is not just the Easterners who tend freak out when the
> roadway falls away into a canyon.

I'd imagine westerners don't panic. They're probably aware of the
possibility and are prepared to deal with it.

> This sounds like an interesting road to drive. It also sounds like a
> foolhardy decision to do any kind of true high-spirited driving on it.

Depends on visibility. Not all the interesting bits are blind, but you
still have to leave some reserve for gravel on the pavement and such.

> I really do not need to add the possibility of falling off a cliff side
> to increase my driving pleasure.

Wotta wimp. :-)

The really nice thing about US191 is that almost no one uses it. You can
drive for an hour without seeing another vehicle. Good thing, because in
most places passing is a challenge. Impossible if you have a hang-up
about double yellow stripes.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C

Lanny Chambers wrote:

> I'd imagine westerners don't panic. They're probably aware of the
> possibility and are prepared to deal with it.

Any careful driver keeps an eye down the road for potholes, debris,
animals, and other things that would not be good to hit, including
missing sections of roadway.

Of the ones listed above, the missing section of roadway seems like the
one that I am most likely to see and avoid hitting.

Since the only good way to deal with a missing section of roadway while
driving a Miata is to stop, it would require that "westerners" be more
capable at braking than other drivers.

Seriously, are the "westerners" calmly bringing their vehicles to a stop
while the "easterners" go sliding off the missing section of road in a
state of panic?
That may be the sale you are offering, but I'm not buying it. ;-)

> Depends on visibility. Not all the interesting bits are blind, but you
> still have to leave some reserve for gravel on the pavement and such.

This sounds like it applies to any curvy road.
It certainly applies to Deals Gap, where sliding off the road can T-bone
the car into a large tree.

> Wotta wimp. :-)

True.......I had a good friend kill himself in his Datsun 240Z about two
blocks from the house where I grew up. I was very young and driving a
280Z at the time.
It had a big impact to see that 240 that was barely recognizable as a
Z-car. The damage to the tree was also quite impressive.
Cars are not only death traps crashed hard, but they make one hell of a
battering ram as well.

I still have fun when I drive, no granny driving here. I just try not to
roll the dice when dealing with the lives of other people any more
than I have to when we share a road together.

> The really nice thing about US191 is that almost no one uses it. You can
> drive for an hour without seeing another vehicle. Good thing, because in
> most places passing is a challenge. Impossible if you have a hang-up
> about double yellow stripes.

That sounds good, unless you break down in the summer. Then it is time
to break out those desert survival skills....... ;-)

Pat

In article >, pws >
wrote:

> Since the only good way to deal with a missing section of roadway while
> driving a Miata is to stop, it would require that "westerners" be more
> capable at braking than other drivers.

Pat, Pat, Pat. You don't slow down, you simply drive around the hole.
The missing bits are always on straights, not in blind corners, and
there's almost never any oncoming traffic anyway. Or any traffic, for
that matter.

I'm not implying that easterners are incapable of dealing with such
things, only that they are more prone to panic at unexpected
inconveniences. And then, of course, they want to sue somebody.

:-)

> That sounds good, unless you break down in the summer. Then it is time
> to break out those desert survival skills....... ;-)

Desert? Although US191 traverses plenty of desert farther north, the
tasty part crosses two mountain ranges. It's cool and green.

You really must make the trip...preferably in a Miata.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C