Opinions on a BMW 325

A friend of mine found someone who has an 87 BMW 325 (as in base model,
not an e or an i). He claims that the car is in good shape, but will not
start (it drove fine before, but now it just won't turn over, the
assumption being its electrical issues). Its got some damaged paint on
the hood, and a few cracks on the dashboard. It's also got no wheels.

I'm pretty confident I can get BMW wheels for it for it for <$150 (and I
already have wheels laying around that fit it), and get it started and
running for <$50.

The car is an automatic with 153k miles, the owner wants $200. He claims
it has leather seats, but they don't look nearly as nice as the seats in
my friend's long-dead 85 325e which seemed quite nice.

I really liked my friend's 325e. It seemed quite fast (0-60 was probably
about 7.5 seconds). We never figured out exactly why it was that fast,
but based on what I have read I suspect he had the 'i' cam and valve
springs (although I think he still had the 'e' computer cause he hit the
rev-limiter around 5k). The car really had little low-end grunt but came
alive around 3k, which is the exact opposite of what the 'e' is supposed
to do. I'd love to get something like that (the work to it was done prior
to him owning it and he was not told what was done to it).

So, I'm in a quandry as to what to do. The automatic transmission is
completely unacceptable to me. There's a junkyard which I could probably
get all the parts for a switchover (minus a clutch, since I'd want a new
clutch) for $150, but I'd have to pull it. I have no idea how much work
is involved in switching it over or how clean it will be to switch to a
manual (from what I read its not too bad). The same junkyard could
probably supply the parts for an engine rebuild for $100, so I figure
the tranny switch over would cost around $400, and a good engine rebuild
(and switch to 'i' cam/springs) would be in the neighborhood of $400.

Anyone have any thoughts?

dan

"Dan" > wrote
> So, I'm in a quandry as to what to do. The automatic transmission is
> completely unacceptable to me. There's a junkyard which I could probably
> get all the parts for a switchover (minus a clutch, since I'd want a new
> clutch) for $150, but I'd have to pull it. I have no idea how much work
> is involved in switching it over or how clean it will be to switch to a
> manual (from what I read its not too bad). The same junkyard could
> probably supply the parts for an engine rebuild for $100, so I figure
> the tranny switch over would cost around $400, and a good engine rebuild
> (and switch to 'i' cam/springs) would be in the neighborhood of $400.

I cannot imagine that you will find a transmission, bell-housing, pedal,
master/slave cylinders, flywheel/clutch/pressure plate for $400. A good
used transmission should cost you $750 or more alone.

The good news is that that engine is probably already an 'i'. Check
the redline on the tach - if it's 6400 it's an 'i', if it's 5600 (??? or so)
it's an eta engine - but I believe that by '87 they had gone away from
that philosophy. The fact that there is no 'i' is inconsequential.

Floyd

fbloogyudsr > wrote:
> "Dan" > wrote
>> So, I'm in a quandry as to what to do. The automatic transmission is
>> completely unacceptable to me. There's a junkyard which I could probably
>> get all the parts for a switchover (minus a clutch, since I'd want a new
>> clutch) for $150, but I'd have to pull it. I have no idea how much work
>> is involved in switching it over or how clean it will be to switch to a
>> manual (from what I read its not too bad). The same junkyard could
>> probably supply the parts for an engine rebuild for $100, so I figure
>> the tranny switch over would cost around $400, and a good engine rebuild
>> (and switch to 'i' cam/springs) would be in the neighborhood of $400.

> I cannot imagine that you will find a transmission, bell-housing, pedal,
> master/slave cylinders, flywheel/clutch/pressure plate for $400. A good
> used transmission should cost you $750 or more alone.

There is a junkyard near me (U-pull-it) that sells stuff at a fixed price.
A transmission from an M3 (if you can find it) is the same price as from a
Geo Metro, which would be $75. They might start tacking on extra charges
like for the driveshaft, flywheel, shifter, etc, but I doubt the price would
come to over $150. Trust me on this...

> The good news is that that engine is probably already an 'i'. Check
> the redline on the tach - if it's 6400 it's an 'i', if it's 5600 (??? or so)
> it's an eta engine - but I believe that by '87 they had gone away from
> that philosophy. The fact that there is no 'i' is inconsequential.

The engine is not an 'i' engine. The redline is about 4500 rpm, which is
standard for the eta motor. The eta was used through 1988 (88 being the
Super-Eta), and the 'i' model was introduced in 1987. The 325 was a base
model, which as far as I know always had the eta engine, at least it
did through 1987, don't know about 1988.

dan

dan wrote:

> The engine is not an 'i' engine. The redline is about 4500 rpm,
> which is standard for the eta motor. The eta was used through 1988
> (88 being the Super-Eta), and the 'i' model was introduced in 1987.
> The 325 was a base model, which as far as I know always had the eta
> engine, at least it
> did through 1987, don't know about 1988.

The best thing to do with an eta engine is put a Conforti chip in it. This
engine responds to "chipping" better than any other BMW engine. HP only goes to
about 140, but torque is increased dramatically, and the peaks and valleys in
the torque curve smoothed out. The result is a better all around engine than an
"i".

The "super eta" is not that different. It has slightly bigger valves, but the
idea of it being better is greater than the reality. On the road there's no
difference.

Of course, this is assuming the engine is in good condition, and tuned/adjusted
correctly. Chances are, it's not. From low compression to poor fuel flow to
carbon deposits to worn valvetrains, it's likely this engine is tired by now.

Matt O.

Matt O'Toole > wrote:
> dan wrote:

>> The engine is not an 'i' engine. The redline is about 4500 rpm,
>> which is standard for the eta motor. The eta was used through 1988
>> (88 being the Super-Eta), and the 'i' model was introduced in 1987.
>> The 325 was a base model, which as far as I know always had the eta
>> engine, at least it
>> did through 1987, don't know about 1988.

> The best thing to do with an eta engine is put a Conforti chip in it. This
> engine responds to "chipping" better than any other BMW engine. HP only goes to
> about 140, but torque is increased dramatically, and the peaks and valleys in
> the torque curve smoothed out. The result is a better all around engine than an
> "i".

> The "super eta" is not that different. It has slightly bigger valves, but the
> idea of it being better is greater than the reality. On the road there's no
> difference.

> Of course, this is assuming the engine is in good condition, and tuned/adjusted
> correctly. Chances are, it's not. From low compression to poor fuel flow to
> carbon deposits to worn valvetrains, it's likely this engine is tired by now.

I was thinking of doing the following:

Going to a junkard and picking up a 325i head, intake manifold, and computer
(I think I could get all that stuff for $100 or less). Pull out the valve
springs, valves, and cams, and take them along with the eta head to a machine
shop have them rebuild the eta head and use the 'i' parts. I figure
rebuilding the head should cost < $300, so for $500 or so total, I'd have a
fresh head with really good performance (much better than the Conforti chip).

From everything I can tell, this modification gives you more power, more
torque, and more fuel economy than the 'i' motor, in fact, not pushed hard,
I've heard fuel economy is comparable or better than the eta motor. But
to be honest, I've heard conflicting stories... Some people say use the
'i' head, others say it screws up the CR and it ends up sucking. Some
people say the valves are different, others dont mention that, some say
the intake manifold is different, others don't mention that. I was sort of
hoping to hear an authorotative answers on what is and isn't possible or
helpful in therms of this.

I'm not real comfortable with the idea of using a chip. I think all the chip
can do is adjust the ignition timing and possibly change the WOT fueling
and maybe limited "step-in" fueling. Under most conditions the car is
operating closed-loop with the fuel system and so unless you are really
getting on the throttle it shouldn't be able to do much, even then, Bosch
does intentionally enrich the mixture to beyod stoich when you are on full
throttle. The ignition is more tunable, perhaps BMW is just overly
conservative, but it doesn't set right with me that you are retuning the
ignition curves on an otherwise stock engine. If Conforti's curves were
so great why didn't BMW use them? Altering the ignition advance shouldn't
adversely effect fuel economy, in fact it should help, which was supposed
to be the selling point of the Eta.

dan

Dan, check out:

http://www.bmwe30.net/ forums
and www.roadfly.org - e30 forums

There all the owners have e30s and have probably done a similar swap

have fun!


>I was thinking of doing the following:
>
>Going to a junkard and picking up a 325i head, intake manifold, and computer
>(I think I could get all that stuff for $100 or less). Pull out the valve
>springs, valves, and cams, and take them along with the eta head to a machine
>
>shop have them rebuild the eta head and use the 'i' parts. I figure
>rebuilding the head should cost < $300, so for $500 or so total, I'd have a
>fresh head with really good performance (much better than the Conforti chip).
>
>From everything I can tell, this modification gives you more power, more
>torque, and more fuel economy than the 'i' motor, in fact, not pushed hard,
>I've heard fuel economy is comparable or better than the eta motor. But
>to be honest, I've heard conflicting stories... Some people say use the
>'i' head, others say it screws up the CR and it ends up sucking. Some
>people say the valves are different, others dont mention that, some say
>the intake manifold is different, others don't mention that. I was sort of
>hoping to hear an authorotative answers on what is and isn't possible or
>helpful in therms of this.
>
>I'm not real comfortable with the idea of using a chip. I think all the chip
>can do is adjust the ignition timing and possibly change the WOT fueling
>and maybe limited "step-in" fueling. Under most conditions the car is
>operating closed-loop with the fuel system and so unless you are really
>getting on the throttle it shouldn't be able to do much, even then, Bosch
>does intentionally enrich the mixture to beyod stoich when you are on full
>throttle. The ignition is more tunable, perhaps BMW is just overly
>conservative, but it doesn't set right with me that you are retuning the
>ignition curves on an otherwise stock engine. If Conforti's curves were
>so great why didn't BMW use them? Altering the ignition advance shouldn't
>adversely effect fuel economy, in fact it should help, which was supposed
>to be the selling point of the Eta.
>
>dan
>
>
>
>
>
>

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
>A friend of mine found someone who has an 87 BMW 325 (as in base model,
> not an e or an i). He claims that the car is in good shape, but will not
> start (it drove fine before, but now it just won't turn over, the
> assumption being its electrical issues). Its got some damaged paint on
> the hood, and a few cracks on the dashboard. It's also got no wheels.

> I'm pretty confident I can get BMW wheels for it for it for <$150 (and I
> already have wheels laying around that fit it), and get it started and
> running for <$50.
>
> The car is an automatic with 153k miles, the owner wants $200. He claims
> it has leather seats, but they don't look nearly as nice as the seats in
> my friend's long-dead 85 325e which seemed quite nice.

Ok, let's summarize: Needs paint, needs seats, needs tranny, needs wheels,
needs dash. Good thing it's cheap! :-)

Is it a coupe or sedan? I definitely prefer the coupes.

> I really liked my friend's 325e. It seemed quite fast (0-60 was probably
> about 7.5 seconds). We never figured out exactly why it was that fast,
> but based on what I have read I suspect he had the 'i' cam and valve
> springs (although I think he still had the 'e' computer cause he hit the
> rev-limiter around 5k). The car really had little low-end grunt but came
> alive around 3k, which is the exact opposite of what the 'e' is supposed
> to do. I'd love to get something like that (the work to it was done prior
> to him owning it and he was not told what was done to it).

I liked my '85 325e as well - my first BMW. The previous owner installed a
K&N filter, and that made a noticeable difference. It was quick off the
line, handled very well, and gave excellent fuel economy.

I think the E30's are a classic design. They still turn my head when I see
a particularly nice example with some sweet rims on it. I thought I liked
the E36's better; but the E30 design has aged very well.

> So, I'm in a quandry as to what to do. The automatic transmission is
> completely unacceptable to me. There's a junkyard which I could probably
> get all the parts for a switchover (minus a clutch, since I'd want a new
> clutch) for $150, but I'd have to pull it. I have no idea how much work
> is involved in switching it over or how clean it will be to switch to a
> manual (from what I read its not too bad). The same junkyard could
> probably supply the parts for an engine rebuild for $100, so I figure
> the tranny switch over would cost around $400, and a good engine rebuild
> (and switch to 'i' cam/springs) would be in the neighborhood of $400.

My suggestions are as follows:

First:, get it running "on the cheap" with the existing drivetrain and cheap
wheels and tires (even if temporary "loaners"). Shake out the bugs, do a
complete assessment of all systems, test handling. Maybe it needs more than
you think.

If it seems to handle well, and is in good shape, then proceed with the
tranny switchover and buy some nice seat covers (or locate sport seats from
salvage.)

If the tranny switchover is a success, then begin repairing assorted
cosmetic defects. Find some really sweet rims and tires.

If after all of this, the new owner decides this on is a keeper, then have
the car prepped meticulously and do a complete professional paint job,
preferably in a rare or interesting custom color. My preference is a deep
golden brown with a gold metallic clearcoat.

Sounds like fun. Keep us posted.

B. Sanders

"B. Sanders" > haute in die Tasten:

> Is it a coupe or sedan? I definitely prefer the coupes.
>

1987 BMW did not have a 325 coupé. They only had a 2 door sedan, a 4 door
sedan, a convertible and an estate.

Frank

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"Frank Kemper" > wrote in message
...
> "B. Sanders" > haute in die Tasten:
>
>> Is it a coupe or sedan? I definitely prefer the coupes.
>>
>
> 1987 BMW did not have a 325 coupé. They only had a 2 door sedan, a 4 door
> sedan, a convertible and an estate.
>
> Frank

Sorry, I'm accustomed to calling 2-door cars "coupes." I never could find
a definitive explanation of the differences between the two, if any. What
are the differences?

(BTW: I've owned both a 633csi, and a 325e, so yes, I do know what a BMW
coupe looks like ;-)

FWIW: Here in the USA, an "estate" (or "touring" or "combi") is called a
"station wagon" most of the time.

Cheers,

B. Sanders

"B. Sanders" > haute in die Tasten:

> Sorry, I'm accustomed to calling 2-door cars "coupes." I never could
> find a definitive explanation of the differences between the two, if
> any. What are the differences?
>

If you look at the small BMWs (BMW 700, BMW '02, E21, E30), they always
have been 2 door sedans. The E30 was the first '3 series also available
with 4 doors (optional and with extra cost). The BMW 700 was also available
as Coupé (lowered top with different rear window design), also optional and
with extra cost.

If you want to detect a BMW Coupé, first look, if they call it a Coupé (BMW
started to do so with the E36), then look for the price: If the 2 door
model is more expensive than the 4 door model, then it is likely that it is
a coupé;-)

BTW: A late E30 325i two door sedan with M-Technic package in silver with
black leather, not modified and in mint condititon, seems to be a car worth
to buy and store away. At least in my eyes. Or you buy two, have fun with
one of them now and store away the other for later;-)

Frank

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