Question to those who use synthetic oil

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 15:00:06 GMT, y_p_w > wrote:

>
>
>George Macdonald wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:35:08 GMT, y_p_w > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>George Macdonald wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On 15 Jul 2004 00:23:21 -0700, (Joe Blo) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I am considering switching to synthetic oil when I buy a new Accord in
>>>>>the next few months. Do the manufacturers of synthetic oil offer a
>>>>>sticker to put near the engine block reminding anyone who services my
>>>>>car that I am using synthetic oil?. I often get my oil changed at the
>>>>>dealer or those quick lube places. Even though they offer synthetic
>>>>>oil, I may not remember each time to indicate this. I want the extra
>>>>>measure of caution with the sticker. K&N air filters give you a
>>>>>sticker to place over the air filter compartment, so whoever services
>>>>>the car, they dont need to be replaced like the paper ones
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>First, leave the factory fill in for the full service interval you expect
>>>>to use for your driving habits. Second, go one more full oil change cycle
>>>>before switching to synthetic.
>>>>
>>>>For the sticker it won't make any difference - most of the quick-lube
>>>>places and even dealers don't care. It's even been reported that a dealer
>>>>made err, a mistake and the synthetic oil the customer had supplied was
>>>>neatly stashed in a corner of the workshop. If you don't want to be
>>>>treated like that, find a good shop you trust and supply your own oil if
>>>>necessary.
>>>>
>>>>BTW synthetic oils are not all really synthetic any longer. For the mass
>>>>market, Mobil1 is the only one I trust; Valvoline and Castrol have
>>>>confessed that they are using hydrocracked mineral basestocks in their
>>>>"synthetics".
>>>
>>>Are you sure about that? I've heard of people asking Valvoline, and
>>>getting a response that it's still a PAO/ester blend.
>>
>>
>> Look up the MSDS - I don't have time to look just now but last time I
>> looked their 10W-30, e.g. had: "HYDROTREATED HEAVY PARAFFINIC DISTILLATE
>> (PE 64742-54-7 53.0- 63.0". It used to read "POLYALPHAOLEFIN
>> SYNTHETIC OIL".
>
>Let's see:
>
>SynPower MXL 0W-30: NO HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS PRESENT
>
>SynPower 5W-30: PETROLEUM HYDROCARBON
> CAS 64742-54-7 52.0-62.0% by weight
>
>SynPowwer 5W-40: only mentions detergent dispersal package and zinc.
>
>SynPower 10W-30: HYDROTREATED HEAVY PARAFFINIC DISTILLATE
> CAS 64742-54-7 53.0-63.0% by weight
>
>SynPower 20W-50: 1-DECENE HYDROGENATED HOMOPOLYMER
> CAS 68037-01-4 65.0-75.0% by weight
>
>It seems as if they use a variety of different base oils, although
>you're correct that some of them seem to be ppetroleum based. The
>20W-50 ingredient sounds suspiciously like a synthetic polymer.

IOW all those which conform to latest API "energy conserving" standards are
petroleum modified basestocks. For the 20W-50, PAO is precisely what they
say: 1-decene hydrogenated polymer, IOW a real synthetic.

>> FWIW, I asked Castrol the same question and got the same answer, i.e. PAO,
>> long after they'd confessed he
>> http://www.castrolusa.com/syntecresponse.html. Hey, they lied.<shrug>
>>
>>>The following is Valvoline's description of what makes synthetics
>>>different. They make a big deal about how their synthetics are
>>>made differently than "mineral oils".
>>>
>>><http://www.valvoline.com/synpower/articleviewer.asp?pg=ccr20011002sb>
>>>
>>>However - Valvoline has attached the "SynPower" name to a variety
>>>of different products that are inherently synthetic. This includes
>>>brake fluid and fuel system cleaners. That's more marketing than
>>>anything.
>>
>>
>> Yes and the formal claim is that hydrocracked or hydrotreated petroleum
>> distillates *are* "synthetic" - the molecules have been sufficiently
>> massaged to qualify. As noted in the above URL, the National Advertising
>> Division of the BBB has supported Castrol in this claim.<shrug> As a
>> former petrochemical-chemist, I choose to disagree.
>
>Heck - even Amsoil is selling one (Series 7500) of them as a "synthetic"
>oil.

Compared with a real synthetic, there's big $$ of mark-up in it.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

George Macdonald > wrote in message >. ..
> On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 15:00:06 GMT, y_p_w > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >George Macdonald wrote:
> >> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:35:08 GMT, y_p_w > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>George Macdonald wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>On 15 Jul 2004 00:23:21 -0700, (Joe Blo) wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I am considering switching to synthetic oil when I buy a new Accord in
> >>>>>the next few months. Do the manufacturers of synthetic oil offer a
> >>>>>sticker to put near the engine block reminding anyone who services my
> >>>>>car that I am using synthetic oil?. I often get my oil changed at the
> >>>>>dealer or those quick lube places. Even though they offer synthetic
> >>>>>oil, I may not remember each time to indicate this. I want the extra
> >>>>>measure of caution with the sticker. K&N air filters give you a
> >>>>>sticker to place over the air filter compartment, so whoever services
> >>>>>the car, they dont need to be replaced like the paper ones
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>First, leave the factory fill in for the full service interval you expect
> >>>>to use for your driving habits. Second, go one more full oil change cycle
> >>>>before switching to synthetic.
> >>>>
> >>>>For the sticker it won't make any difference - most of the quick-lube
> >>>>places and even dealers don't care. It's even been reported that a dealer
> >>>>made err, a mistake and the synthetic oil the customer had supplied was
> >>>>neatly stashed in a corner of the workshop. If you don't want to be
> >>>>treated like that, find a good shop you trust and supply your own oil if
> >>>>necessary.
> >>>>
> >>>>BTW synthetic oils are not all really synthetic any longer. For the mass
> >>>>market, Mobil1 is the only one I trust; Valvoline and Castrol have
> >>>>confessed that they are using hydrocracked mineral basestocks in their
> >>>>"synthetics".
> >>>
> >>>Are you sure about that? I've heard of people asking Valvoline, and
> >>>getting a response that it's still a PAO/ester blend.
> >>
> >>
> >> Look up the MSDS - I don't have time to look just now but last time I
> >> looked their 10W-30, e.g. had: "HYDROTREATED HEAVY PARAFFINIC DISTILLATE
> >> (PE 64742-54-7 53.0- 63.0". It used to read "POLYALPHAOLEFIN
> >> SYNTHETIC OIL".
> >
> >Let's see:
> >
> >SynPower MXL 0W-30: NO HAZARDOUS INGREDIENTS PRESENT
> >
> >SynPower 5W-30: PETROLEUM HYDROCARBON
> > CAS 64742-54-7 52.0-62.0% by weight
> >
> >SynPowwer 5W-40: only mentions detergent dispersal package and zinc.
> >
> >SynPower 10W-30: HYDROTREATED HEAVY PARAFFINIC DISTILLATE
> > CAS 64742-54-7 53.0-63.0% by weight
> >
> >SynPower 20W-50: 1-DECENE HYDROGENATED HOMOPOLYMER
> > CAS 68037-01-4 65.0-75.0% by weight
> >
> >It seems as if they use a variety of different base oils, although
> >you're correct that some of them seem to be ppetroleum based. The
> >20W-50 ingredient sounds suspiciously like a synthetic polymer.
>
> IOW all those which conform to latest API "energy conserving" standards are
> petroleum modified basestocks. For the 20W-50, PAO is precisely what they
> say: 1-decene hydrogenated polymer, IOW a real synthetic.

I took a look at the ExxonMobil website for Mobil 1. I used the US
MSDS database, and they don't have any hazardous materials listed.
It sounds like unused synthetic oil isn't toxic per se, but wouldn't
it make one heck of a laxative? All the sheets say the following:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHEMICAL NAMES AND SYNONYMS: SYN. HYDROCARBONS AND ADDITIVES

GLOBALLY REPORTABLE MSDS INGREDIENTS:

None.

OTHER INGREDIENTS:

Substance Name Approx. Wt%
-------------- -----------
POLYALKYLENE SUCCINIC ACID, 1-5
POLYAMINE DERIVATIVE
(147880-09-9)

*******

The list is the same for all weights, including ones that aren't
available in the US (like 5W-50).

These are the datasheet ingredients for their Mobil 1 MX4T 10W-40
motorcycle oil:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
CHEMICAL NAMES AND SYNONYMS: SYN. HYDROCARBONS AND ADDITIVES

GLOBALLY REPORTABLE MSDS INGREDIENTS:

Substance Name Approx. Wt%
-------------- -----------
PHOSPHORODITHIOIC ACID, 1-5
O,O-DI-C1-14-ALKYL ESTERS,
ZINC SALT (2:1) ZDDP
(68649-42-3)

On 18 Jul 2004 17:57:17 -0700, (y_p_w) wrote:

>George Macdonald > wrote in message >. ..
>> On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 15:00:06 GMT, y_p_w > wrote:
<<snip>>
>> IOW all those which conform to latest API "energy conserving" standards are
>> petroleum modified basestocks. For the 20W-50, PAO is precisely what they
>> say: 1-decene hydrogenated polymer, IOW a real synthetic.
>
>I took a look at the ExxonMobil website for Mobil 1. I used the US
>MSDS database, and they don't have any hazardous materials listed.
>It sounds like unused synthetic oil isn't toxic per se, but wouldn't
>it make one heck of a laxative? All the sheets say the following:

Yeah AFAIK most of the oil companies, including Mobil, used to publish all
the ingredients in their MSDSs. It seems that they got some kinda
permission to stop listing the ingredients which were non-toxic in the
bottle, likely for competitive reasons... proprietary formula info I guess.
As for laxative, yes in some countries they still (I think) sell "Petroleum
Oil" as a laxative - highly purified of course and clear as water. I dunno
what it does to the liver and kidneys though.:-)

>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>CHEMICAL NAMES AND SYNONYMS: SYN. HYDROCARBONS AND ADDITIVES
>
>GLOBALLY REPORTABLE MSDS INGREDIENTS:
>
>None.
>
>OTHER INGREDIENTS:
>
>Substance Name Approx. Wt%
>-------------- -----------
>POLYALKYLENE SUCCINIC ACID, 1-5
>POLYAMINE DERIVATIVE
>(147880-09-9)
>
>*******
>
>The list is the same for all weights, including ones that aren't
>available in the US (like 5W-50).
>
>These are the datasheet ingredients for their Mobil 1 MX4T 10W-40
>motorcycle oil:
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>CHEMICAL NAMES AND SYNONYMS: SYN. HYDROCARBONS AND ADDITIVES
>
>GLOBALLY REPORTABLE MSDS INGREDIENTS:
>
>Substance Name Approx. Wt%
>-------------- -----------
>PHOSPHORODITHIOIC ACID, 1-5
>O,O-DI-C1-14-ALKYL ESTERS,
>ZINC SALT (2:1) ZDDP
>(68649-42-3)

Interesting. Motorcycles don't use catalytic converters of course.... yet,
so their oils can still use ZDDP.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??

>
> Interesting. Motorcycles don't use catalytic converters of course.... yet,
> so their oils can still use ZDDP.

theyre standard on some if not all models in europe.

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 00:03:27 GMT, SoCalMike
> wrote:

>
>
>>
>> Interesting. Motorcycles don't use catalytic converters of course.... yet,
>> so their oils can still use ZDDP.
>
>theyre standard on some if not all models in europe.

Hadn't heard that and I wonder about the cost/benefits but like I said in
another post, compared with the EC, the EPA are pussycats.:-)

Hmmm, I wonder: where do they put the damned thing so it won't burn the
driver's or passenger's legs off?

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??