Oil question What the manual says, vs. what Dad says.

Hi, all,
I have a 96 Saturn SL, and it's begun to burn oil when I really give it the
gas. I can see a cloud behind me. My Dad told me that I might be able to
alleviate that by using 10w40, instead of the 5w30 the manual calls for.
I live in Michigan, so it's going to get cold. Is there any truth to the
statement that this will stop the oil from burning? And, will it hurt my
engine, if I switch? I'm under the impression that the thicker oil will make
starting harder, especially in the winter, and that if the oil is too thick, it
won't protect the engine.
Any thoughts or insights? I'd appreciate them,
Tedrick

What year? How many miles? How much oil is it consuming and under what type
of normal driving conditions?

Background: Saturn engines tend to burn oil after they have been broken in
(> 60K miles), but from what I've been able to gather listening to other
owners and confirmed in reading this newsgroup, burning a quart every 1500
miles is "normal" and does not appear to have a major affect on the
vehicle's reliability or longevity. You just need to check it frequently
and add to keep it full between changes.

The 10W40 oil or other off the shelf additives would likely help reduce your
consumption slightly, but I personally would not recommend it for use in MI
during the winter. If you do a google search on "Saturn oil consumption" or
"oil burning", it should turn up at least a couple of different threads over
the last year in this newsgroup that provided a detailed cylinder soak
procedure that seemed to help others unstick rings and halve their
consumption.

Good luck.

Bob

"TSMANGOD" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, all,
> I have a 96 Saturn SL, and it's begun to burn oil when I really give it
the
> gas. I can see a cloud behind me. My Dad told me that I might be able to
> alleviate that by using 10w40, instead of the 5w30 the manual calls for.
> I live in Michigan, so it's going to get cold. Is there any truth to
the
> statement that this will stop the oil from burning? And, will it hurt my
> engine, if I switch? I'm under the impression that the thicker oil will
make
> starting harder, especially in the winter, and that if the oil is too
thick, it
> won't protect the engine.
> Any thoughts or insights? I'd appreciate them,
> Tedrick

"TSMANGOD" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, all,
> I have a 96 Saturn SL, and it's begun to burn oil when I really
give it the
> gas. I can see a cloud behind me. My Dad told me that I might be
able to
> alleviate that by using 10w40, instead of the 5w30 the manual calls
for.
> I live in Michigan, so it's going to get cold. Is there any truth
to the
> statement that this will stop the oil from burning? And, will it
hurt my
> engine, if I switch? I'm under the impression that the thicker oil
will make
> starting harder, especially in the winter, and that if the oil is
too thick, it
> won't protect the engine.
> Any thoughts or insights? I'd appreciate them,
> Tedrick

If you are going to a 10W base oil, it would be better to use 10W-30,
as the 10W-40 doesn't meet Saturn specifications. Your impression is
pretty much correct. The thicker oil will put more strain on the
starter, but won't harm the engine. I've run 10W-30 during the summer
and 5W-30 during the winter. I'm currently using Mobil 1 10W-30 and
plan on using it this winter. The better cold flow capability of the
synthetic should help. The Saturn ('96 SL2) is now my son's. Our 2
other vehicles both use 10W-30 year-round and I'd rather just deal
with the 1 weight of oil.

Ken

Napalm Heart wrote:

> If you are going to a 10W base oil, it would be better to use 10W-30,
> as the 10W-40 doesn't meet Saturn specifications. Your impression is
> pretty much correct. The thicker oil will put more strain on the
> starter, but won't harm the engine. I've run 10W-30 during the summer
> and 5W-30 during the winter. I'm currently using Mobil 1 10W-30 and
> plan on using it this winter. The better cold flow capability of the
> synthetic should help. The Saturn ('96 SL2) is now my son's. Our 2
> other vehicles both use 10W-30 year-round and I'd rather just deal
> with the 1 weight of oil.

Why not use 5W30 then? Even GM has pretty much stopped
recommending 10W30 for anything. At normal operating
temperatures, 10W30 and 5W30 have virtually the same
viscosity. At 0 degrees, the 5W30 will flow better. And a
conventional 5W30 will flow better than 10W30 Mobil 1 at 0
degrees, although this is likely not true at significantly
lower temperatures, since the Mobil one does not thicken as
much as the temperature decreases below 0 as most
conventional oils. I have seen nothing that indicated 5W30
is more likely to break down with normal usage than 10W30,
so I see no advantage to using 10W30 unless it is cheaper.
In a relatively warm climate, the difference is trivial.
However, even in balmy North Carolina we have a few days
where the temperature is below zero (centigrade, not
Fahrenheit), so I think 5W30 is the correct "all season"
choice for me.

Ed

I run 10w30 all year here in NY. Before I rebuilt the engine due to oil
burning, I would throw in a quart of 10w40 here and there......

I wouldn't hesitate to run 10w30 through the winters and 10w40 in the summer if
you want.

I have tried everything. The dealer told me to use a 15W-50, so I put in
the Mobil 1 syn. Still not helping. I'll rebuild the engine when i get
back from the War in a year. It will burn oil regardless, just keep
checking it and don't waste money like me on the expensive stuff. I've
tried all the fillers, every different brand of Sny Castrol, Royal Purple
and even that restore stuff. The engine just gets tired. There is no
Viagra for the common car.
Good Luck,
Matt
"TSMANGOD" > wrote in message
...
> Hi, all,
> I have a 96 Saturn SL, and it's begun to burn oil when I really give it
> the
> gas. I can see a cloud behind me. My Dad told me that I might be able to
> alleviate that by using 10w40, instead of the 5w30 the manual calls for.
> I live in Michigan, so it's going to get cold. Is there any truth to the
> statement that this will stop the oil from burning? And, will it hurt my
> engine, if I switch? I'm under the impression that the thicker oil will
> make
> starting harder, especially in the winter, and that if the oil is too
> thick, it
> won't protect the engine.
> Any thoughts or insights? I'd appreciate them,
> Tedrick

Tedrick,

Matt,

You can stop this oil burning permanently. Here's the story. I
bought a Saturn '95 SL2 a couple of years ago and the engine was
burning oil quite miserably- at least a quart every 500 miles. I lost
track of the oil level and the engine gave up the ghost while on I75.
So after I had a second engine put in the car I searched for best ways
to treat the Saturn. I found out about bypass filters, these
secondary filters that are so thick that they remove particles much
smaller and more effectively than the OEM filter can. The government
did and is doing tests on these filters and find them excellent. I
decided to install the Frantz filter made by www.wefilterit.com. Not
only does the filter eliminate engine wear providing 2-3x longer
engine life (proven by the SAE), it also helps the moving engine
components to seat properly and thus will lower oil consumption. In
fact my engine now has eliminated the oil burning completely! You may
not believe me but the only remedy is to prove to yourself by doing a
little research on the internet. And if you are so inclined it takes
about a couple days of planning and 2-3 days of work. The effort is
worth it because in the end you get a cleaner/ quieter running engine
and the peace of mind when it stops burning oil.

Here are some pictures of my installation:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...;f=36;t=000144

Check this out:
http://www.uscg.mil/SYSTEMS/GSE/P2OA.2-1-1.htm

....so this is not a typical relocation kid, rather a second filter, right?
How do you get pressure to the secondary filter?, a pump or some type of
splitter off of the oem filter? (just curious) Cool pic - like the gauge
too.

I was reading with some relocation kits it was critical to get the right
filter that either had the valve built in or not depending on the automaker,
and the concern was it would take a while to get oil flow on start-up.



"Mark" > wrote in message
m...
> Tedrick,
>
> Matt,
>
> You can stop this oil burning permanently. Here's the story. I
> bought a Saturn '95 SL2 a couple of years ago and the engine was
> burning oil quite miserably- at least a quart every 500 miles. I lost
> track of the oil level and the engine gave up the ghost while on I75.
> So after I had a second engine put in the car I searched for best ways
> to treat the Saturn. I found out about bypass filters, these
> secondary filters that are so thick that they remove particles much
> smaller and more effectively than the OEM filter can. The government
> did and is doing tests on these filters and find them excellent. I
> decided to install the Frantz filter made by www.wefilterit.com. Not
> only does the filter eliminate engine wear providing 2-3x longer
> engine life (proven by the SAE), it also helps the moving engine
> components to seat properly and thus will lower oil consumption. In
> fact my engine now has eliminated the oil burning completely! You may
> not believe me but the only remedy is to prove to yourself by doing a
> little research on the internet. And if you are so inclined it takes
> about a couple days of planning and 2-3 days of work. The effort is
> worth it because in the end you get a cleaner/ quieter running engine
> and the peace of mind when it stops burning oil.
>
> Here are some pictures of my installation:
> http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/...;f=36;t=000144
>
> Check this out:
> http://www.uscg.mil/SYSTEMS/GSE/P2OA.2-1-1.htm

"Jonnie Santos" > wrote in message news:<Adccd.59429$Lo6.45765@fed1read03>...
> ...so this is not a typical relocation kid, rather a second filter, right?
> How do you get pressure to the secondary filter?, a pump or some type of
> splitter off of the oem filter? (just curious) Cool pic - like the gauge
> too.
>

No problem, curiosity is good. It is a second filter that operates in
bypass of the original filter that is on the vehicle. The flow
through this filter is tiny - only 8-10cc (1 inch squared) per second
and thus the pressure can come from the main oil pump. It allows the
primary filter to do it's job of providing lubricant free from large
particles to the engine internals but squeezes out particles 1-2
micrometers in size 100%. The regular filters are made of pleated
paper and only filter down to 30 micrometers. To feed oil pressure to
the filter, you must use either a sandwich adapter or a tee. The
sandwich adapter acts as a sandwich between the engine block and the
OEM spin-on filter. The tee must be installed in place of the oil
pressure sender. You do not replace the oil pressure sender, just
relocate it (what the tee is for). FYI, the OPS turns on the light
that warns when oil pressure is low. You can get all the necessary
plumbing and hoses from hardware stores and automotive parts stores.
Use RTV for the thread sealant - I've found that it makes perfect
seals that are resistant to vibration. You also need to find a place
to mount the big filter. On large trucks it is a piece of cake but
with smaller cars you have to be more creative. With my Saturn, I
bought a battery relocation kit and relocated it to the trunk.


SAE had determined that the particles that cause the most wear in
engines come in sizes from 20 to 5 micrometers. They say that 70% of
engine wear comes from contaminated oil thus if you were to put on a
bypass filter that gets the crud out of the oil you will get almost
70% more engine life. And when the oil picks up the dirt deposits
(like sludge) in the engine the BP filter removes this dirt thus your
engine internals get cleaned up pretty good. Engine noise decreases
and you get better performance.

> I was reading with some relocation kits it was critical to get the right
> filter that either had the valve built in or not depending on the automaker,
> and the concern was it would take a while to get oil flow on start-up.

With either the Frantz, Motorguard, or Gulf Coast filters, the
diverting of some oil flow is so minimal that it does not effect the
main filter or the amount of flow to the engine. In fact there is a
check valve in the oil pump that allows more flow when the engine
needs it. Unless you drag race your car the oil pump will not come
close to its maximum flow output.
When the BP filter is saturated with oil, you can basically neglect
its effect during startup. There is one exception however, when you
change the BP filter, the new filter isn't saturated with oil. The
oil flow through the inlet hose to the BP filter is higher when there
is air in the system because the air moves quickly through the filter.
But the BP filter is saturated in a couple seconds and then the oil
flows at the normal 8-10cc rate. For this reason I screwed on a
shutoff valve to it and only partially open this valve when a new BP
filter is installed. I then open the valve completely after a minute
of engine running. This is when I know the BP filter is saturated
with oil. A ball valve can be bought at a hardware store for a couple
of bucks.

In any case, it is a good idea for your OEM spin-on filter to have
what is called an anti-drainback valve. This valve closes when the
engine is turned off and keeps the oil that is coating the engine from
draining into the oil pan. It helps to reduce startup wear because
more oil is coating the inside of your engine when you turn the key.
A bypass filter will clean out your oil thus you won't have to change
either the OEM oil filter or the oil as often.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Did the cables for the remote battery
go through the cabin or under the car? Hope you get a bazillion miles out
of your Saturn! (smile)

"Mark" > wrote in message
om...
> "Jonnie Santos" > wrote in message
> news:<Adccd.59429$Lo6.45765@fed1read03>...
>> ...so this is not a typical relocation kid, rather a second filter,
>> right?
>> How do you get pressure to the secondary filter?, a pump or some type of
>> splitter off of the oem filter? (just curious) Cool pic - like the
>> gauge
>> too.
>>
>
> No problem, curiosity is good. It is a second filter that operates in
> bypass of the original filter that is on the vehicle. The flow
> through this filter is tiny - only 8-10cc (1 inch squared) per second
> and thus the pressure can come from the main oil pump. It allows the
> primary filter to do it's job of providing lubricant free from large
> particles to the engine internals but squeezes out particles 1-2
> micrometers in size 100%. The regular filters are made of pleated
> paper and only filter down to 30 micrometers. To feed oil pressure to
> the filter, you must use either a sandwich adapter or a tee. The
> sandwich adapter acts as a sandwich between the engine block and the
> OEM spin-on filter. The tee must be installed in place of the oil
> pressure sender. You do not replace the oil pressure sender, just
> relocate it (what the tee is for). FYI, the OPS turns on the light
> that warns when oil pressure is low. You can get all the necessary
> plumbing and hoses from hardware stores and automotive parts stores.
> Use RTV for the thread sealant - I've found that it makes perfect
> seals that are resistant to vibration. You also need to find a place
> to mount the big filter. On large trucks it is a piece of cake but
> with smaller cars you have to be more creative. With my Saturn, I
> bought a battery relocation kit and relocated it to the trunk.
>
>
> SAE had determined that the particles that cause the most wear in
> engines come in sizes from 20 to 5 micrometers. They say that 70% of
> engine wear comes from contaminated oil thus if you were to put on a
> bypass filter that gets the crud out of the oil you will get almost
> 70% more engine life. And when the oil picks up the dirt deposits
> (like sludge) in the engine the BP filter removes this dirt thus your
> engine internals get cleaned up pretty good. Engine noise decreases
> and you get better performance.
>
>> I was reading with some relocation kits it was critical to get the right
>> filter that either had the valve built in or not depending on the
>> automaker,
>> and the concern was it would take a while to get oil flow on start-up.
>
> With either the Frantz, Motorguard, or Gulf Coast filters, the
> diverting of some oil flow is so minimal that it does not effect the
> main filter or the amount of flow to the engine. In fact there is a
> check valve in the oil pump that allows more flow when the engine
> needs it. Unless you drag race your car the oil pump will not come
> close to its maximum flow output.
> When the BP filter is saturated with oil, you can basically neglect
> its effect during startup. There is one exception however, when you
> change the BP filter, the new filter isn't saturated with oil. The
> oil flow through the inlet hose to the BP filter is higher when there
> is air in the system because the air moves quickly through the filter.
> But the BP filter is saturated in a couple seconds and then the oil
> flows at the normal 8-10cc rate. For this reason I screwed on a
> shutoff valve to it and only partially open this valve when a new BP
> filter is installed. I then open the valve completely after a minute
> of engine running. This is when I know the BP filter is saturated
> with oil. A ball valve can be bought at a hardware store for a couple
> of bucks.
>
> In any case, it is a good idea for your OEM spin-on filter to have
> what is called an anti-drainback valve. This valve closes when the
> engine is turned off and keeps the oil that is coating the engine from
> draining into the oil pan. It helps to reduce startup wear because
> more oil is coating the inside of your engine when you turn the key.
> A bypass filter will clean out your oil thus you won't have to change
> either the OEM oil filter or the oil as often.