2 springs on A2 brake pressure regulator

Greetz All,

I recently replaced all 4 rotors on my '86 GTI. After about a week of
driving, I noticed that on both rear rotors, there was about a half inch
band of surface rust on the inner diameter of the disc, and the
machining marks had not gone away like they had in the front. This rust
is only on the outside of the disc.

I started poking around and discovered the regulator was seized. So I
replaced it along with most of the brake lines. (always a fun job)

So now after a couple more weeks of driving (120 miles a day to work)
the rust is still there. I thumbed through the Bentley and found a
diagram of the pressure regulator and noticed it only showed the single
large spring from the axle to the regulator. Mine has a second smaller
spring connected from the bottom of the lever to the large spring
itself. An image of the second spring location can be seen here,
http://edodickens.home.mchsi.com/images/brake_reg.gif with the spring
connected where the red "X"s are. After reading a bit in the Google
archives, I found a few references that say you should bleed your rear
brakes with the regulator lever pulled all the way back. I assume this
opens the regulator all the way. This secondary spring would seem to
hold the lever all the way forward when the car is level so minimum
pressure would always be applied to the rear brakes.

Is this second spring suppose to be there? I couldn't find any reference
to it. Also, the Bentley mentions the regulator is adjustable, but
doesn't say how to adjust it. I guessing that with the car sitting
level, the top of the lever should be pulled almost all the way back to
give room for heavy loads.

Thanks for any info.

Ed
'86 GTI (235,000 miles and becoming newer all the time)
'01 GLS (55,000 miles and no problems)

------------ Get Firefox!------------
<http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=36843&t=1>

Now the poor guy's gonna find that his rear calipers are seized too

nate

Eric Rupert wrote:

> Lose the second spring. It's not supposed to be there.
>
> On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:25:23 -0600, "Mr.Eddy"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Greetz All,
>>
>>I recently replaced all 4 rotors on my '86 GTI. After about a week of
>>driving, I noticed that on both rear rotors, there was about a half inch
>>band of surface rust on the inner diameter of the disc, and the
>>machining marks had not gone away like they had in the front. This rust
>>is only on the outside of the disc.
>>
>>I started poking around and discovered the regulator was seized. So I
>>replaced it along with most of the brake lines. (always a fun job)
>>
>>So now after a couple more weeks of driving (120 miles a day to work)
>>the rust is still there. I thumbed through the Bentley and found a
>>diagram of the pressure regulator and noticed it only showed the single
>>large spring from the axle to the regulator. Mine has a second smaller
>>spring connected from the bottom of the lever to the large spring
>>itself. An image of the second spring location can be seen here,
>>http://edodickens.home.mchsi.com/images/brake_reg.gif with the spring
>>connected where the red "X"s are. After reading a bit in the Google
>>archives, I found a few references that say you should bleed your rear
>>brakes with the regulator lever pulled all the way back. I assume this
>>opens the regulator all the way. This secondary spring would seem to
>>hold the lever all the way forward when the car is level so minimum
>>pressure would always be applied to the rear brakes.
>>
>>Is this second spring suppose to be there? I couldn't find any reference
>>to it. Also, the Bentley mentions the regulator is adjustable, but
>>doesn't say how to adjust it. I guessing that with the car sitting
>>level, the top of the lever should be pulled almost all the way back to
>>give room for heavy loads.
>>
>>Thanks for any info.
>>
>>Ed
>>'86 GTI (235,000 miles and becoming newer all the time)
>>'01 GLS (55,000 miles and no problems)
>>
>>------------ Get Firefox!------------
>><http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=36843&t=1>
>
>


--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Now the poor guy's gonna find that his rear calipers are seized too

nate

Eric Rupert wrote:

> Lose the second spring. It's not supposed to be there.
>
> On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:25:23 -0600, "Mr.Eddy"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Greetz All,
>>
>>I recently replaced all 4 rotors on my '86 GTI. After about a week of
>>driving, I noticed that on both rear rotors, there was about a half inch
>>band of surface rust on the inner diameter of the disc, and the
>>machining marks had not gone away like they had in the front. This rust
>>is only on the outside of the disc.
>>
>>I started poking around and discovered the regulator was seized. So I
>>replaced it along with most of the brake lines. (always a fun job)
>>
>>So now after a couple more weeks of driving (120 miles a day to work)
>>the rust is still there. I thumbed through the Bentley and found a
>>diagram of the pressure regulator and noticed it only showed the single
>>large spring from the axle to the regulator. Mine has a second smaller
>>spring connected from the bottom of the lever to the large spring
>>itself. An image of the second spring location can be seen here,
>>http://edodickens.home.mchsi.com/images/brake_reg.gif with the spring
>>connected where the red "X"s are. After reading a bit in the Google
>>archives, I found a few references that say you should bleed your rear
>>brakes with the regulator lever pulled all the way back. I assume this
>>opens the regulator all the way. This secondary spring would seem to
>>hold the lever all the way forward when the car is level so minimum
>>pressure would always be applied to the rear brakes.
>>
>>Is this second spring suppose to be there? I couldn't find any reference
>>to it. Also, the Bentley mentions the regulator is adjustable, but
>>doesn't say how to adjust it. I guessing that with the car sitting
>>level, the top of the lever should be pulled almost all the way back to
>>give room for heavy loads.
>>
>>Thanks for any info.
>>
>>Ed
>>'86 GTI (235,000 miles and becoming newer all the time)
>>'01 GLS (55,000 miles and no problems)
>>
>>------------ Get Firefox!------------
>><http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=36843&t=1>
>
>


--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Care to elaborate on why they seize, and if they are, what can be done.

Ed

Nate Nagel wrote:
> Now the poor guy's gonna find that his rear calipers are seized too
>
> nate
>
> Eric Rupert wrote:
>
>> Lose the second spring. It's not supposed to be there.
>>
>> On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:25:23 -0600, "Mr.Eddy"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Greetz All,
>>>
>>> I recently replaced all 4 rotors on my '86 GTI. After about a week of
>>> driving, I noticed that on both rear rotors, there was about a half
>>> inch band of surface rust on the inner diameter of the disc, and the
>>> machining marks had not gone away like they had in the front. This
>>> rust is only on the outside of the disc.
>>>
>>> I started poking around and discovered the regulator was seized. So I
>>> replaced it along with most of the brake lines. (always a fun job)
>>>
>>> So now after a couple more weeks of driving (120 miles a day to work)
>>> the rust is still there. I thumbed through the Bentley and found a
>>> diagram of the pressure regulator and noticed it only showed the
>>> single large spring from the axle to the regulator. Mine has a second
>>> smaller spring connected from the bottom of the lever to the large
>>> spring itself. An image of the second spring location can be seen
>>> here, http://edodickens.home.mchsi.com/images/brake_reg.gif with the
>>> spring connected where the red "X"s are. After reading a bit in the
>>> Google archives, I found a few references that say you should bleed
>>> your rear brakes with the regulator lever pulled all the way back. I
>>> assume this opens the regulator all the way. This secondary spring
>>> would seem to hold the lever all the way forward when the car is
>>> level so minimum pressure would always be applied to the rear brakes.
>>>
>>> Is this second spring suppose to be there? I couldn't find any
>>> reference to it. Also, the Bentley mentions the regulator is
>>> adjustable, but doesn't say how to adjust it. I guessing that with
>>> the car sitting level, the top of the lever should be pulled almost
>>> all the way back to give room for heavy loads.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any info.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>> '86 GTI (235,000 miles and becoming newer all the time)
>>> '01 GLS (55,000 miles and no problems)
>>>
>>> ------------ Get Firefox!------------
>>> <http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=36843&t=1>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


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------------ Get Firefox!
<http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=36843&t=1> ------------

Care to elaborate on why they seize, and if they are, what can be done.

Ed

Nate Nagel wrote:
> Now the poor guy's gonna find that his rear calipers are seized too
>
> nate
>
> Eric Rupert wrote:
>
>> Lose the second spring. It's not supposed to be there.
>>
>> On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:25:23 -0600, "Mr.Eddy"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Greetz All,
>>>
>>> I recently replaced all 4 rotors on my '86 GTI. After about a week of
>>> driving, I noticed that on both rear rotors, there was about a half
>>> inch band of surface rust on the inner diameter of the disc, and the
>>> machining marks had not gone away like they had in the front. This
>>> rust is only on the outside of the disc.
>>>
>>> I started poking around and discovered the regulator was seized. So I
>>> replaced it along with most of the brake lines. (always a fun job)
>>>
>>> So now after a couple more weeks of driving (120 miles a day to work)
>>> the rust is still there. I thumbed through the Bentley and found a
>>> diagram of the pressure regulator and noticed it only showed the
>>> single large spring from the axle to the regulator. Mine has a second
>>> smaller spring connected from the bottom of the lever to the large
>>> spring itself. An image of the second spring location can be seen
>>> here, http://edodickens.home.mchsi.com/images/brake_reg.gif with the
>>> spring connected where the red "X"s are. After reading a bit in the
>>> Google archives, I found a few references that say you should bleed
>>> your rear brakes with the regulator lever pulled all the way back. I
>>> assume this opens the regulator all the way. This secondary spring
>>> would seem to hold the lever all the way forward when the car is
>>> level so minimum pressure would always be applied to the rear brakes.
>>>
>>> Is this second spring suppose to be there? I couldn't find any
>>> reference to it. Also, the Bentley mentions the regulator is
>>> adjustable, but doesn't say how to adjust it. I guessing that with
>>> the car sitting level, the top of the lever should be pulled almost
>>> all the way back to give room for heavy loads.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any info.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>> '86 GTI (235,000 miles and becoming newer all the time)
>>> '01 GLS (55,000 miles and no problems)
>>>
>>> ------------ Get Firefox!------------
>>> <http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=36843&t=1>
>>
>>
>>
>
>


--
------------ Get Firefox!
<http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=36843&t=1> ------------

"Mr.Eddy" > wrote in message
...
> Care to elaborate on why they seize, and if they are, what can be done.
>
> Ed

If they are seized, you replace them. Usually caused by by a failing master
cylinder or related pressure regulator


> Nate Nagel wrote:
> > Now the poor guy's gonna find that his rear calipers are seized too
> >
> > nate
> >
> > Eric Rupert wrote:
> >
> >> Lose the second spring. It's not supposed to be there.
> >>
> >> On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:25:23 -0600, "Mr.Eddy"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Greetz All,
> >>>
> >>> I recently replaced all 4 rotors on my '86 GTI. After about a week of
> >>> driving, I noticed that on both rear rotors, there was about a half
> >>> inch band of surface rust on the inner diameter of the disc, and the
> >>> machining marks had not gone away like they had in the front. This
> >>> rust is only on the outside of the disc.
> >>>
> >>> I started poking around and discovered the regulator was seized. So I
> >>> replaced it along with most of the brake lines. (always a fun job)
> >>>
> >>> So now after a couple more weeks of driving (120 miles a day to work)
> >>> the rust is still there. I thumbed through the Bentley and found a
> >>> diagram of the pressure regulator and noticed it only showed the
> >>> single large spring from the axle to the regulator. Mine has a second
> >>> smaller spring connected from the bottom of the lever to the large
> >>> spring itself. An image of the second spring location can be seen
> >>> here, http://edodickens.home.mchsi.com/images/brake_reg.gif with the
> >>> spring connected where the red "X"s are. After reading a bit in the
> >>> Google archives, I found a few references that say you should bleed
> >>> your rear brakes with the regulator lever pulled all the way back. I
> >>> assume this opens the regulator all the way. This secondary spring
> >>> would seem to hold the lever all the way forward when the car is
> >>> level so minimum pressure would always be applied to the rear brakes.
> >>>
> >>> Is this second spring suppose to be there? I couldn't find any
> >>> reference to it. Also, the Bentley mentions the regulator is
> >>> adjustable, but doesn't say how to adjust it. I guessing that with
> >>> the car sitting level, the top of the lever should be pulled almost
> >>> all the way back to give room for heavy loads.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for any info.
> >>>
> >>> Ed
> >>> '86 GTI (235,000 miles and becoming newer all the time)
> >>> '01 GLS (55,000 miles and no problems)
> >>>
> >>> ------------ Get Firefox!------------
> >>> <http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=36843&t=1>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> ------------ Get Firefox!
> <http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=36843&t=1> ------------

"Mr.Eddy" > wrote in message
...
> Care to elaborate on why they seize, and if they are, what can be done.
>
> Ed

If they are seized, you replace them. Usually caused by by a failing master
cylinder or related pressure regulator


> Nate Nagel wrote:
> > Now the poor guy's gonna find that his rear calipers are seized too
> >
> > nate
> >
> > Eric Rupert wrote:
> >
> >> Lose the second spring. It's not supposed to be there.
> >>
> >> On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:25:23 -0600, "Mr.Eddy"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Greetz All,
> >>>
> >>> I recently replaced all 4 rotors on my '86 GTI. After about a week of
> >>> driving, I noticed that on both rear rotors, there was about a half
> >>> inch band of surface rust on the inner diameter of the disc, and the
> >>> machining marks had not gone away like they had in the front. This
> >>> rust is only on the outside of the disc.
> >>>
> >>> I started poking around and discovered the regulator was seized. So I
> >>> replaced it along with most of the brake lines. (always a fun job)
> >>>
> >>> So now after a couple more weeks of driving (120 miles a day to work)
> >>> the rust is still there. I thumbed through the Bentley and found a
> >>> diagram of the pressure regulator and noticed it only showed the
> >>> single large spring from the axle to the regulator. Mine has a second
> >>> smaller spring connected from the bottom of the lever to the large
> >>> spring itself. An image of the second spring location can be seen
> >>> here, http://edodickens.home.mchsi.com/images/brake_reg.gif with the
> >>> spring connected where the red "X"s are. After reading a bit in the
> >>> Google archives, I found a few references that say you should bleed
> >>> your rear brakes with the regulator lever pulled all the way back. I
> >>> assume this opens the regulator all the way. This secondary spring
> >>> would seem to hold the lever all the way forward when the car is
> >>> level so minimum pressure would always be applied to the rear brakes.
> >>>
> >>> Is this second spring suppose to be there? I couldn't find any
> >>> reference to it. Also, the Bentley mentions the regulator is
> >>> adjustable, but doesn't say how to adjust it. I guessing that with
> >>> the car sitting level, the top of the lever should be pulled almost
> >>> all the way back to give room for heavy loads.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for any info.
> >>>
> >>> Ed
> >>> '86 GTI (235,000 miles and becoming newer all the time)
> >>> '01 GLS (55,000 miles and no problems)
> >>>
> >>> ------------ Get Firefox!------------
> >>> <http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=36843&t=1>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> ------------ Get Firefox!
> <http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=affiliates&id=36843&t=1> ------------

Mr.Eddy wrote:

> Care to elaborate on why they seize, and if they are, what can be done.
>
> Ed

If your regulator was busted and not letting pressure to the rear
brakes, they may have seized from disuse if you didn't use your parking
brake regularly. When you get it back together you'll be able to tell
quickly if they are or not; if they are new calipers are still available.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Mr.Eddy wrote:

> Care to elaborate on why they seize, and if they are, what can be done.
>
> Ed

If your regulator was busted and not letting pressure to the rear
brakes, they may have seized from disuse if you didn't use your parking
brake regularly. When you get it back together you'll be able to tell
quickly if they are or not; if they are new calipers are still available.

good luck,

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

>
>> Care to elaborate on why they seize, and if they are, what can be done.
>>
>> Ed
>
>If your regulator was busted and not letting pressure to the rear
>brakes, they may have seized from disuse if you didn't use your parking
>brake regularly. When you get it back together you'll be able to tell
>quickly if they are or not; if they are new calipers are still available.
>

Are you all talking about the Brake Proportioning Valve?
I have handled several that have seized, but it was the activating arm that
seized in the pivots.
Some yum-yum juice (my favorite rust penetrant) on the pivots along with some
movement of these arms and all seems fine.
I just handled one yesterday on a 92 Jetta Carat along with the rear brake
cylinders and shoes.
I also noted that I had to exert great force to initially bleed both front
calipers with the bleeder nipples completely out of the caliper. Then my
pressure bleeder would function properly. This I found ODD!

Or is this something else you are talking about?

later,
dave
Reminder........
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way,
when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them, and you have their
shoes. Frieda Norris