Evaluating a Used Car - DipStick (Oil) Reading

I'm looking at a 2002 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L with 57,000 miles. I
pulled the dipstick and the oil looked dark and smelled a bit cooked.
The vehicle had been taken in trade at a [Dodge] dealer. The salesman
showed me the shop work that had been performed on this vehicle to
ready it for resale. Among other things such as brakes and stabilizer
bushings, the engine oil and filter had been changed. The van had
about 50 miles on it since the oil change.

Although I put a deposit on the 2002, I am concerned about the care
that the engine was given by the previous owners.

Why would the oil be dark so quickly?

What inspections or tests can be performed to determine the overall
health of the engine?

When I change the oil in my current van (1994 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L
with 180,000 miles), the used oil is very dark, nearly black at 5,000
miles. The fresh oil is nearly clear and it takes a few hundred to a
thousand miles before the oil is dark again.

I also have a 1997 Corolla. I changed the oil last week and have
driven over 1,000 miles since the change. I check the oil level today
and the oil is still clean and clear!

On May 19, 10:18 pm, HKEK > wrote:
> I'm looking at a 2002 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L with 57,000 miles. I
> pulled the dipstick and the oil looked dark and smelled a bit cooked.
> The vehicle had been taken in trade at a [Dodge] dealer. The salesman
> showed me the shop work that had been performed on this vehicle to
> ready it for resale. Among other things such as brakes and stabilizer
> bushings, the engine oil and filter had been changed. The van had
> about 50 miles on it since the oil change.
>
> Although I put a deposit on the 2002, I am concerned about the care
> that the engine was given by the previous owners.
>
> Why would the oil be dark so quickly?
>
> What inspections or tests can be performed to determine the overall
> health of the engine?
>
> When I change the oil in my current van (1994 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L
> with 180,000 miles), the used oil is very dark, nearly black at 5,000
> miles. The fresh oil is nearly clear and it takes a few hundred to a
> thousand miles before the oil is dark again.
>
> I also have a 1997 Corolla. I changed the oil last week and have
> driven over 1,000 miles since the change. I check the oil level today
> and the oil is still clean and clear!

They oil may be contaminated due to excessive blow-by caused by worn
out piston rings among many other things -- this would be a very bad
thing as it would mean engine rebuild. It may also be an issue with
something not working on the emissions side of things, which might be
cheaper/easier to fix. Definitely, if the oil was indeed changed, it
should NOT look black after 50 miles.

To check the condition of the piston rings you can have compression
test done on the engine, which effectively will tell you whether the
rings are good or not to some extent.

Hope this helps,

Alex

"HKEK" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I'm looking at a 2002 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L with 57,000 miles. I
> pulled the dipstick and the oil looked dark and smelled a bit cooked.
> The vehicle had been taken in trade at a [Dodge] dealer. The salesman
> showed me the shop work that had been performed on this vehicle to
> ready it for resale. Among other things such as brakes and stabilizer
> bushings, the engine oil and filter had been changed. The van had
> about 50 miles on it since the oil change.

It's hard to say. Likely as not, they falsified the work report. I bought a
car from a Dodge dealer just a few weeks ago, and they had records showing
they did work that was obviously not done. Who knows.

3.3's are pretty tough.

In article .com>,
HKEK > wrote:

> I'm looking at a 2002 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L with 57,000 miles. I
> pulled the dipstick and the oil looked dark and smelled a bit cooked.
> The vehicle had been taken in trade at a [Dodge] dealer. The salesman
> showed me the shop work that had been performed on this vehicle to
> ready it for resale. Among other things such as brakes and stabilizer
> bushings, the engine oil and filter had been changed. The van had
> about 50 miles on it since the oil change.
>
> Although I put a deposit on the 2002, I am concerned about the care
> that the engine was given by the previous owners.
>
> Why would the oil be dark so quickly?
>
> What inspections or tests can be performed to determine the overall
> health of the engine?
>
> When I change the oil in my current van (1994 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L
> with 180,000 miles), the used oil is very dark, nearly black at 5,000
> miles. The fresh oil is nearly clear and it takes a few hundred to a
> thousand miles before the oil is dark again.
>
> I also have a 1997 Corolla. I changed the oil last week and have
> driven over 1,000 miles since the change. I check the oil level today
> and the oil is still clean and clear!

That is a severe inconsistency.
I'd not believe anything they say, even the mileage, and would pass on
this one.

> Why would the oil be dark so quickly?


If the oil was not changed often enough or never changed, you will get a
build up inside the motor. When you do replace it and start driving the old
build up (dirt) blends in with the new oil. That makes it black and will
take out the bearings down the road. I always change mine between two and
three thousand miles.

HKEK wrote:
>
> I'm looking at a 2002 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L with 57,000 miles. I
> pulled the dipstick and the oil looked dark and smelled a bit cooked.
> The vehicle had been taken in trade at a [Dodge] dealer. The salesman
> showed me the shop work that had been performed on this vehicle to
> ready it for resale. Among other things such as brakes and stabilizer
> bushings, the engine oil and filter had been changed. The van had
> about 50 miles on it since the oil change.
>
> Although I put a deposit on the 2002, I am concerned about the care
> that the engine was given by the previous owners.
>
> Why would the oil be dark so quickly?
>
> What inspections or tests can be performed to determine the overall
> health of the engine?
>
> When I change the oil in my current van (1994 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.3L
> with 180,000 miles), the used oil is very dark, nearly black at 5,000
> miles. The fresh oil is nearly clear and it takes a few hundred to a
> thousand miles before the oil is dark again.
>
> I also have a 1997 Corolla. I changed the oil last week and have
> driven over 1,000 miles since the change. I check the oil level today
> and the oil is still clean and clear!


If the oil gets dark after 50 miles of driving at 180K this is pretty
much normal for any car that has had the oil changed at extended
intervals of say 5000 to 7000 miles. Had the oil been changed more often
it would take considerably longer for the oil to become dark. Basically
what is causing the oil to become black is grime that has accumulated
inside the engine.
The engine may still be in good shape. Check the tail pipe. If it is
coated with black soot then the engine is probably beyond hope. But if
the engine runs well and is still in good shape you can clean it out by
changing the oil whenever it gets dirty. That may mean changing it at 50
miles for the first oil change, but the next one will be longer (maybe
500 miles). After following a regimen of changing the oil whenever it
gets dark for a while you should be able to get it back to where it will
stay clean for thousands of miles.

-jim

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I can have the vehicle inspected and the deposit is refundable if my
mechanic finds any serious issues.

It has been suggested that some shops do not drain the oil during
changes but pump it out instead through the dipstick tube. It was
further suggested that this practice may leave enough used oil behind
to contaminated the fresh oil being added.

When I drain oil for a change, I drain it hot and for an hour or two
if not overnight.

If they're not getting underneath the car to drain the oil, then they might
also be not changing the filter...

"HKEK" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I can have the vehicle inspected and the deposit is refundable if my
> mechanic finds any serious issues.
>
> It has been suggested that some shops do not drain the oil during
> changes but pump it out instead through the dipstick tube. It was
> further suggested that this practice may leave enough used oil behind
> to contaminated the fresh oil being added.
>
> When I drain oil for a change, I drain it hot and for an hour or two
> if not overnight.
>

"april1st" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> They oil may be contaminated due to excessive blow-by caused by worn
> out piston rings among many other things --


To separate the blow-by hypothesis from the other things, could it be as
simple as removing the oil filler cap and seeing how much smoke comes out? A
compression test might be better, but the smoke test is fast and free.

Blake wrote:
>
> "april1st" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> > They oil may be contaminated due to excessive blow-by caused by worn
> > out piston rings among many other things --
>
> To separate the blow-by hypothesis from the other things,

You can't separate the "blow-by hypothesis" because that theory is
incorrect. If you change the oil often enough you can keep the inside of
any engine clean even if it burns a quart of oil every 50 miles and it
has compression of 50 lbs. and leaves a trail of blue smoke wherever it
goes.
It may well be that because the oil wasn't changed often enough the
rings are more worn than they otherwise would be. And/or it may well be
that because the engine used a lot of oil the previous owner thought
that the oil didn't need to be changed very often because they were
always adding oil. So there may well be a correlation between the
appearance of black oil and blow-by. But the cause of the oil being
black is not blow-by. It is either they didn't really change the oil as
the salesman said or the engine has a history of the oil not being
changed as often as some people do. In my opinion its unlikely that they
skipped the oil change if they were seriously trying to sell the car. As
for the other theories that they didn't drain all the oil or didn't
change the filter - it is much more likely that the previous owner was
the one doing those things. The dealer probably changed the oil and
filter properly.

-jim


>could it be as
> simple as removing the oil filler cap and seeing how much smoke comes out? A
> compression test might be better, but the smoke test is fast and free.

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