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Intermittent stall 92 Century
Arggg I'm so flustrated......
Car: 92 Buick Century, V6, 3.3L, 161K miles Problem: Stalls intermittently, no stumble prior, it just stops. Like the key was turned off. No codes are stored. All the warning lights come on when it stops. Usually it will restart fine. Sometimes it well restart then stall again it may take a minute, or it may stall again immediately. If I'm at highway speed, all I feel is a slight hesitation when it does this. It seems worse when it's cold outside, and the engine is warm, but only slightly. It is a pain in stop and go driving, but highway driving is not too bad. Sometimes when I restart I will get a high idle like the motor is cold. What Ive done so far: Replaced battery. Replaced battery cables. Installed grounds from block to trans to body. Reseated all fuses and sensor connectors. Replaced MAP sensor. Replaced ECU. Replaced Ignition control/coil pack. KenG |
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 01:21:10 GMT, KENG > wrote:
>Arggg I'm so flustrated...... > >Car: >92 Buick Century, V6, 3.3L, 161K miles > >Problem: >Stalls intermittently, no stumble prior, it just stops. Like the key was >turned off. No codes are stored. All the warning lights come on when it >stops. Usually it will restart fine. Sometimes it well restart then >stall again it may take a minute, or it may stall again immediately. If >I'm at highway speed, all I feel is a slight hesitation when it does >this. It seems worse when it's cold outside, and the engine is warm, but >only slightly. It is a pain in stop and go driving, but highway driving >is not too bad. Sometimes when I restart I will get a high idle like the >motor is cold. > >What Ive done so far: >Replaced battery. >Replaced battery cables. >Installed grounds from block to trans to body. >Reseated all fuses and sensor connectors. >Replaced MAP sensor. >Replaced ECU. >Replaced Ignition control/coil pack. > > >KenG I don't see anything in here about the fuel delivery system.......... You should have a fuel pressure regulator You should have a clean fuel filter you should have a fuel pump supplying sufficient flow to the engine at the correct pressure. This is *classic* fuel starvation symptom. Lg |
#3
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I considered that. But I do not think that it is a fuel starvation
issue, with the exception that it might be caused by an interuption of the trigger or power to the injectors. When the problem occures, there is no in-between, it is on or off. When it occurs at speed, it feels like a stumble (which could point to starvation), but the higher RPMs keep the motor turning until the event passes. Lets say that the fuel pump has a low delivery pressure, the symptom would likely be alternately surging and bogging. If the fuel filter is clogged, the same symptoms, with the exception that it would likely be worse at higher throttle/speed, and near normal at idle. Insufficient flow would be similar. Intermittent signal to the pump would have some run-on after the pump stopped. There is no lead up to the events, it's running perfect one moment, then it is not running AT ALL for say 15(arbitrary number) revs if it has enough inertia to turn 15 times then it will continue running, if it does not it will stop. I can even feel it on decel when there is minimal fuel flow. If the fuel pressure regulator dumps the pressure totally and immediately, then a second later, pressurized again it could cause these symptoms. I will however do some testing in that area, since it is more easily checked. KenG Lawrence Glickman wrote: > On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 01:21:10 GMT, KENG > wrote: > > >>Arggg I'm so flustrated...... >> >>Car: >>92 Buick Century, V6, 3.3L, 161K miles >> >>Problem: >>Stalls intermittently, no stumble prior, it just stops. Like the key was >>turned off. No codes are stored. All the warning lights come on when it >>stops. Usually it will restart fine. Sometimes it well restart then >>stall again it may take a minute, or it may stall again immediately. If >>I'm at highway speed, all I feel is a slight hesitation when it does >>this. It seems worse when it's cold outside, and the engine is warm, but >>only slightly. It is a pain in stop and go driving, but highway driving >>is not too bad. Sometimes when I restart I will get a high idle like the >>motor is cold. >> >>What Ive done so far: >>Replaced battery. >>Replaced battery cables. >>Installed grounds from block to trans to body. >>Reseated all fuses and sensor connectors. >>Replaced MAP sensor. >>Replaced ECU. >>Replaced Ignition control/coil pack. >> >> >>KenG > > > I don't see anything in here about the fuel delivery system.......... > > You should have a fuel pressure regulator > You should have a clean fuel filter > you should have a fuel pump supplying sufficient flow to the engine at > the correct pressure. > > This is *classic* fuel starvation symptom. > > Lg > |
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 02:37:50 GMT, KENG > wrote:
>I considered that. But I do not think that it is a fuel starvation >issue, with the exception that it might be caused by an interuption of >the trigger or power to the injectors. When the problem occures, there >is no in-between, it is on or off. When it occurs at speed, it feels >like a stumble (which could point to starvation), but the higher RPMs >keep the motor turning until the event passes. Lets say that the fuel >pump has a low delivery pressure, the symptom would likely be >alternately surging and bogging. If the fuel filter is clogged, the same > symptoms, with the exception that it would likely be worse at higher >throttle/speed, and near normal at idle. Insufficient flow would be >similar. Intermittent signal to the pump would have some run-on after >the pump stopped. There is no lead up to the events, it's running >perfect one moment, then it is not running AT ALL for say 15(arbitrary >number) revs if it has enough inertia to turn 15 times then it will >continue running, if it does not it will stop. I can even feel it on >decel when there is minimal fuel flow. If the fuel pressure regulator >dumps the pressure totally and immediately, then a second later, >pressurized again it could cause these symptoms. I will however do some >testing in that area, since it is more easily checked. > >KenG I'm sorry I don't know. I suspect low fuel pressure, or sticking throttle plate. On my car ( lucky me ) I can see if this happens with my flight recorder ( Davis Carchip e/x ). I notice one time OVERpressure from fuel pump just at startup, but then engine normaled out, and it only happened once. It is going to -1F and I suspect there was ice in the fuel line, that is my idea. That caused a surge in pressure until it was cleared from the system. It is just my explantion of what "possibly" happened with my car. As Don Bruder says, it is difficult to diagnose some thing *long distance* when you can't see the car, and to be honest, I don't want to see any cars at this temperature outside ;-) I don't know where you live, but if it is up North where I am, that fuel pump might be fighting ice in the fuel lines. So, you can put HEET into your gas tank, or something like that which is O2 sensor Safe. At this temperature, no car engine likes to be started and even when it is, you have nothing to keep your fuel lines from freezing. Lg >Lawrence Glickman wrote: >> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 01:21:10 GMT, KENG > wrote: >> >> >>>Arggg I'm so flustrated...... >>> >>>Car: >>>92 Buick Century, V6, 3.3L, 161K miles >>> >>>Problem: >>>Stalls intermittently, no stumble prior, it just stops. Like the key was >>>turned off. No codes are stored. All the warning lights come on when it >>>stops. Usually it will restart fine. Sometimes it well restart then >>>stall again it may take a minute, or it may stall again immediately. If >>>I'm at highway speed, all I feel is a slight hesitation when it does >>>this. It seems worse when it's cold outside, and the engine is warm, but >>>only slightly. It is a pain in stop and go driving, but highway driving >>>is not too bad. Sometimes when I restart I will get a high idle like the >>>motor is cold. >>> >>>What Ive done so far: >>>Replaced battery. >>>Replaced battery cables. >>>Installed grounds from block to trans to body. >>>Reseated all fuses and sensor connectors. >>>Replaced MAP sensor. >>>Replaced ECU. >>>Replaced Ignition control/coil pack. >>> >>> >>>KenG >> >> >> I don't see anything in here about the fuel delivery system.......... >> >> You should have a fuel pressure regulator >> You should have a clean fuel filter >> you should have a fuel pump supplying sufficient flow to the engine at >> the correct pressure. >> >> This is *classic* fuel starvation symptom. >> >> Lg >> |
#5
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North Carolina, and it has been doing it for a few months, so it's not
the cold. Lawrence Glickman wrote: > On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 02:37:50 GMT, KENG > wrote: > > >>I considered that. But I do not think that it is a fuel starvation >>issue, with the exception that it might be caused by an interuption of >>the trigger or power to the injectors. When the problem occures, there >>is no in-between, it is on or off. When it occurs at speed, it feels >>like a stumble (which could point to starvation), but the higher RPMs >>keep the motor turning until the event passes. Lets say that the fuel >>pump has a low delivery pressure, the symptom would likely be >>alternately surging and bogging. If the fuel filter is clogged, the same >> symptoms, with the exception that it would likely be worse at higher >>throttle/speed, and near normal at idle. Insufficient flow would be >>similar. Intermittent signal to the pump would have some run-on after >>the pump stopped. There is no lead up to the events, it's running >>perfect one moment, then it is not running AT ALL for say 15(arbitrary >>number) revs if it has enough inertia to turn 15 times then it will >>continue running, if it does not it will stop. I can even feel it on >>decel when there is minimal fuel flow. If the fuel pressure regulator >>dumps the pressure totally and immediately, then a second later, >>pressurized again it could cause these symptoms. I will however do some >>testing in that area, since it is more easily checked. >> >>KenG > > > I'm sorry I don't know. I suspect low fuel pressure, or sticking > throttle plate. On my car ( lucky me ) I can see if this happens with > my flight recorder ( Davis Carchip e/x ). I notice one time > OVERpressure from fuel pump just at startup, but then engine normaled > out, and it only happened once. > > It is going to -1F and I suspect there was ice in the fuel line, that > is my idea. That caused a surge in pressure until it was cleared from > the system. It is just my explantion of what "possibly" happened with > my car. > > As Don Bruder says, it is difficult to diagnose some thing *long > distance* when you can't see the car, and to be honest, I don't want > to see any cars at this temperature outside ;-) > > I don't know where you live, but if it is up North where I am, that > fuel pump might be fighting ice in the fuel lines. So, you can put > HEET into your gas tank, or something like that which is O2 sensor > Safe. At this temperature, no car engine likes to be started and even > when it is, you have nothing to keep your fuel lines from freezing. > > Lg > > > >>Lawrence Glickman wrote: >> >>>On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 01:21:10 GMT, KENG > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Arggg I'm so flustrated...... >>>> >>>>Car: >>>>92 Buick Century, V6, 3.3L, 161K miles >>>> >>>>Problem: >>>>Stalls intermittently, no stumble prior, it just stops. Like the key was >>>>turned off. No codes are stored. All the warning lights come on when it >>>>stops. Usually it will restart fine. Sometimes it well restart then >>>>stall again it may take a minute, or it may stall again immediately. If >>>>I'm at highway speed, all I feel is a slight hesitation when it does >>>>this. It seems worse when it's cold outside, and the engine is warm, but >>>>only slightly. It is a pain in stop and go driving, but highway driving >>>>is not too bad. Sometimes when I restart I will get a high idle like the >>>>motor is cold. >>>> >>>>What Ive done so far: >>>>Replaced battery. >>>>Replaced battery cables. >>>>Installed grounds from block to trans to body. >>>>Reseated all fuses and sensor connectors. >>>>Replaced MAP sensor. >>>>Replaced ECU. >>>>Replaced Ignition control/coil pack. >>>> >>>> >>>>KenG >>> >>> >>>I don't see anything in here about the fuel delivery system.......... >>> >>>You should have a fuel pressure regulator >>>You should have a clean fuel filter >>>you should have a fuel pump supplying sufficient flow to the engine at >>>the correct pressure. >>> >>>This is *classic* fuel starvation symptom. >>> >>>Lg >>> > > |
#6
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"KENG" > wrote in message . com... >I considered that. But I do not think that it is a fuel starvation issue, >with the exception that it might be caused by an interuption of the trigger >or power to the injectors. When the problem occures, there is no >in-between, it is on or off. When it occurs at speed, it feels like a >stumble (which could point to starvation), but the higher RPMs keep the >motor turning until the event passes. Lets say that the fuel pump has a low >delivery pressure, the symptom would likely be alternately surging and >bogging. If the fuel filter is clogged, the same symptoms, with the >exception that it would likely be worse at higher throttle/speed, and near >normal at idle. Insufficient flow would be similar. Intermittent signal to >the pump would have some run-on after the pump stopped. There is no lead >up to the events, it's running perfect one moment, then it is not running >AT ALL for say 15(arbitrary number) revs if it has enough inertia to turn >15 times then it will continue running, if it does not it will stop. I can >even feel it on decel when there is minimal fuel flow. If the fuel pressure >regulator dumps the pressure totally and immediately, then a second later, >pressurized again it could cause these symptoms. I will however do some >testing in that area, since it is more easily checked. > > KenG It's pretty obvious to me that you have much more knowledge about your problem then Glickman does. He repaired his own car once and now likes to bore everyone with his wild assed guesses Although checking fuel pressure is never a bad idea when dealing with a drivability problem, I don't believe you'll find your problem there. I didn't see any mention of crankshaft position sensor on your list of replaced items... have you checked it? Good luck, intermittent, no code problems can be a bitch but I think you're on the right track. Bob |
#7
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On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:37:02 -0600, "Bob" > wrote:
>It's pretty obvious to me that you have much more knowledge about your >problem then Glickman does. It is pretty obvious to me that Ken has much more knowledge about his problem than Bob does. In fact, "Bob" has never even SEEN Ken's car. He wouldn't know it was Ken's car if he walked into it. > He repaired his own car once and now likes to >bore everyone with his wild assed guesses Although checking fuel pressure >is never a bad idea when dealing with a drivability problem, I don't believe >you'll find your problem there. I didn't see any mention of crankshaft >position sensor on your list of replaced items... have you checked it? Good >luck, intermittent, no code problems can be a bitch but I think you're on >the right track. > Bob > > You're a ****wit. ESAD. Lg |
#8
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Yea, I realize that it could cause somewhat similar problems, but it is
a real PITA to change. I am really hoping that's not it. Bob wrote: > "KENG" > wrote in message > . com... > >>I considered that. But I do not think that it is a fuel starvation issue, >>with the exception that it might be caused by an interuption of the trigger >>or power to the injectors. When the problem occures, there is no >>in-between, it is on or off. When it occurs at speed, it feels like a >>stumble (which could point to starvation), but the higher RPMs keep the >>motor turning until the event passes. Lets say that the fuel pump has a low >>delivery pressure, the symptom would likely be alternately surging and >>bogging. If the fuel filter is clogged, the same symptoms, with the >>exception that it would likely be worse at higher throttle/speed, and near >>normal at idle. Insufficient flow would be similar. Intermittent signal to >>the pump would have some run-on after the pump stopped. There is no lead >>up to the events, it's running perfect one moment, then it is not running >>AT ALL for say 15(arbitrary number) revs if it has enough inertia to turn >>15 times then it will continue running, if it does not it will stop. I can >>even feel it on decel when there is minimal fuel flow. If the fuel pressure >>regulator dumps the pressure totally and immediately, then a second later, >>pressurized again it could cause these symptoms. I will however do some >>testing in that area, since it is more easily checked. >> >>KenG > > > It's pretty obvious to me that you have much more knowledge about your > problem then Glickman does. He repaired his own car once and now likes to > bore everyone with his wild assed guesses Although checking fuel pressure > is never a bad idea when dealing with a drivability problem, I don't believe > you'll find your problem there. I didn't see any mention of crankshaft > position sensor on your list of replaced items... have you checked it? Good > luck, intermittent, no code problems can be a bitch but I think you're on > the right track. > Bob > > > |
#9
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KENG wrote:
> > Arggg I'm so flustrated...... > > Car: > 92 Buick Century, V6, 3.3L, 161K miles > > Problem: > Stalls intermittently, no stumble prior, it just stops. Like the key was > turned off. No codes are stored. All the warning lights come on when it > stops. Usually it will restart fine. Sometimes it well restart then > stall again it may take a minute, or it may stall again immediately. If > I'm at highway speed, all I feel is a slight hesitation when it does > this. It seems worse when it's cold outside, and the engine is warm, but > only slightly. It is a pain in stop and go driving, but highway driving > is not too bad. Sometimes when I restart I will get a high idle like the > motor is cold. > > What Ive done so far: > Replaced battery. > Replaced battery cables. > Installed grounds from block to trans to body. > Reseated all fuses and sensor connectors. > Replaced MAP sensor. > Replaced ECU. > Replaced Ignition control/coil pack. > > KenG Randomly replacing parts can get expensive. However, if I was allowed to replace only ONE part on your car, it would be the crank sensor. |
#10
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 04:35:12 GMT, "« Paul »" <"
> wrote: >KENG wrote: >> >> Arggg I'm so flustrated...... >> >> Car: >> 92 Buick Century, V6, 3.3L, 161K miles >> >> Problem: >> Stalls intermittently, no stumble prior, it just stops. Like the key was >> turned off. No codes are stored. All the warning lights come on when it >> stops. Usually it will restart fine. Sometimes it well restart then >> stall again it may take a minute, or it may stall again immediately. If >> I'm at highway speed, all I feel is a slight hesitation when it does >> this. It seems worse when it's cold outside, and the engine is warm, but >> only slightly. It is a pain in stop and go driving, but highway driving >> is not too bad. Sometimes when I restart I will get a high idle like the >> motor is cold. >> >> What Ive done so far: >> Replaced battery. >> Replaced battery cables. >> Installed grounds from block to trans to body. >> Reseated all fuses and sensor connectors. >> Replaced MAP sensor. >> Replaced ECU. >> Replaced Ignition control/coil pack. >> >> KenG > >Randomly replacing parts can get expensive. >However, if I was allowed to replace only ONE part on your car, >it would be the crank sensor. Don't you think he can measure the voltage from that crank sensor before going through all the trouble to replace it? Really. Why replace something if it is not part of the problem. His job now, if the crank sensor is under suspicion, is to INVESTIGATE. Put a scope meter on the output and turn the car over, and see if he is getting 700 millivolts or better. If he is, he can FORGET about replacing the crank sensor. Lg |
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