I know that the rav4 is not a real 4x4, but we all got to start somewhere, right?

disclaimer: I know that the rav4 is not a real 4x4. I have very
little knowledge of 4x4's. This is why I came here. I would like to
find some patient person who will be kind enough to not flame, but
dispense out some basic knowledge

Dear all:

My buddy just bought a Rav4. I helped him pick it out. Since I
am currently unemployed, I have a lot of time and scanned through many
ads and found a black on dark grey Rav4 1998 with only 99k miles. It
is a manual drive (which, I think is the only way to go), and it has
just had timing belt and water pump replaced. The price was
unbelieveable @ 5700 dollars. The carfax report was clean and the car
is clean and drives well.

Both he and I have never owned a 4X4 before. We were just
wondering about the finer points of driving one. The guy who showed
us the car taught us a little: to demonstrate the differential
locking, he had us engage the 4x4 and then turn real tight circles.
We felt the diff grinding in those turns. Was this really really bad
for the differential when we did that repeatedly? Now that I think
about it, I am hoping that we didn't put undue stress on the
differential.

My buddy is going to park it at my house and I live on an air
force base. I am hoping to take it out and use the 4x4 feature. I
have some grass areas. I am hoping that on grass, I won't grind the
differential. I just don't want to hurt the car. I am also going to
try to find some ice and see the traction.

I know these are not very good questions I am asking. This is
because I don't really know the questions to ask. Could someone just
start at the beginning and dispense out some good knowledge on how we
can get the most use and best fun out of the 4x4? I know this rav4 is
not an outright offroad car, but I would like to take it to some
terrain or some conditions where I can really appreciate the 4x4
features.

sincerely, thanx in advance.

Many people want 4X4s for different reasons. Some want to explore the
lesser travelled trails and get out into nature. Others want to be able to
get from place to place in inclimate weather without worry. Still others
get hit by the offroad bug and modify their vehicles for extreme duty.

Each different 4X4 vehicle appeals to as many different people. Some are
stylish while others are more funtional and rugged. Prices vary along the
same lines -- you pay for what you get, style, function, capability.

All of the major manufacturers both national and international have produced
a good crop of capable 4X4s. They all have equally created a few poorly
designed and incapable vehicles as well. ( In my opinion the RAV4 is one of
these)

All the vehicles have been designed and manufactured for general on highway
use with vehicle safety regulations paramont. In fact, avid offroad use
with any of these almost always requires aftermarket modifications just to
meet the average, unknowing buyers expectations. Such mods usually are
bigger tires, suspension lifts, gear changes, traction devices and so forth.

For my personal preferences, I wanted capability in difficult off road
conditions while maintaining on highway manners and safety. My vehicle of
choice was a Jeep Wrangler. My Jeep is considered highly modified by stock
vehicle standards, but I can do anything I want with it and also use it as
my daily driver.

For the novice, there are a few simple rules when exploring the 4X4 realm:

1. Never stress your vehicle beyond its capability or it will break.

In order to follow this rule you must learn about your vehicle and what
it can do. Your owner's manual is the first place to go. Follow its
recommendations for the conditions you want to drive in and then go try it
out. If you find it lacking in capability, then research what you have to
do to improve it.

Remember this -- 4x4 doesn't really mean you have 4 wheel drive. When you
shift into four wheel drive all you're really doing is transfering engine
power and torque to both axles instead of one. Because of differential
design only one wheel on each axle is driving the vehicle. Normally, the
wheel with the least amont of traction gets the power. That power or torque
will shift from one wheel to the other during different traction situations,
but still only one wheel on each axle will have power. An example would be
if you have one wheel off the ground (no traction) and one on the ground,
the wheel not contacting the ground will get the engine power. Does'nt seem
right but that's the way it is.

2. Never under any circumstance place your vehicle in four wheel drive on
dry pavement.

Four wheel drive is for situations where there is loss of traction. The
four wheel drive system on most 4X4s needs a certain amount of slippage.
Without slippage the driveline will be stressed and could result in damage
and expensive repair bills.

3. Never go four wheeling alone. Always take a friend with his own 4X4 and
a tow strap along for the trip. Things can happen like getting stuck miles
from nowhere with no help. I can't tell you how many times I've happened
along on this situation.

4. 4X4s are maintenance intensive. I know you've heard this before. What
it really means is that if you intend to take your vehicle off road then
preventive maintenance is the best insurance. Check all your fluids to make
sure they are at the proper levels. 4X4 use makes your vehicle work harder
than on the highway. As a result, fluid changes like the oil, transfer case
and differentials will be required at frequent interval as well as lube.
Not only will this keep your vehicle in prime shape to handle the trails it
will ensure a long life to your driveline and suspension components. Also,
off road use will eventually result in something breaking.

5. Obstacles and other unforseen trail anomalies. Never try to bonzai an
obstacle to get over it. Not only is it unsafe, but you will put
unneccessary and potentially damaging stress on your vehicle. Slow and
deliberate is the rule. If you can't negotiate the obstacle in this way
then you just discovered your vehicle's limitation. Sure, you may be able
to get past the problem with a little extra throttle, but be prepared for
breakage.

Now keep in mind that in these few short words, I have come no where near
describing all of the nuances with 4X4 vehicles or their capabilities. Nor
have I delved to deeply into various off road situations and conditions.
Suffice it to say, I've given you the absolute basics.

Here's my opinion on your vehicle -- The RAV4 is a relatively inexpensive,
light duty 4X4 vehicle with limited capabilty. Is is well suited for on
road limited traction situation in rain or light snow. Off road should be
limited to unimproved dirt roads and minimal obstacles. It is economical to
operate and possesses sufficient quality comensurate its Asian manufacturer.
It would not be my first choice for a 4X4.

Hope you get something out of this.
Scott
--


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"LovingPerson" > wrote in message
om...
> disclaimer: I know that the rav4 is not a real 4x4. I have very
> little knowledge of 4x4's. This is why I came here. I would like to
> find some patient person who will be kind enough to not flame, but
> dispense out some basic knowledge
>
> Dear all:
>
> My buddy just bought a Rav4. I helped him pick it out. Since I
> am currently unemployed, I have a lot of time and scanned through many
> ads and found a black on dark grey Rav4 1998 with only 99k miles. It
> is a manual drive (which, I think is the only way to go), and it has
> just had timing belt and water pump replaced. The price was
> unbelieveable @ 5700 dollars. The carfax report was clean and the car
> is clean and drives well.
>
> Both he and I have never owned a 4X4 before. We were just
> wondering about the finer points of driving one. The guy who showed
> us the car taught us a little: to demonstrate the differential
> locking, he had us engage the 4x4 and then turn real tight circles.
> We felt the diff grinding in those turns. Was this really really bad
> for the differential when we did that repeatedly? Now that I think
> about it, I am hoping that we didn't put undue stress on the
> differential.
>
> My buddy is going to park it at my house and I live on an air
> force base. I am hoping to take it out and use the 4x4 feature. I
> have some grass areas. I am hoping that on grass, I won't grind the
> differential. I just don't want to hurt the car. I am also going to
> try to find some ice and see the traction.
>
> I know these are not very good questions I am asking. This is
> because I don't really know the questions to ask. Could someone just
> start at the beginning and dispense out some good knowledge on how we
> can get the most use and best fun out of the 4x4? I know this rav4 is
> not an outright offroad car, but I would like to take it to some
> terrain or some conditions where I can really appreciate the 4x4
> features.
>
> sincerely, thanx in advance.

Many people want 4X4s for different reasons. Some want to explore the
lesser travelled trails and get out into nature. Others want to be able to
get from place to place in inclimate weather without worry. Still others
get hit by the offroad bug and modify their vehicles for extreme duty.

Each different 4X4 vehicle appeals to as many different people. Some are
stylish while others are more funtional and rugged. Prices vary along the
same lines -- you pay for what you get, style, function, capability.

All of the major manufacturers both national and international have produced
a good crop of capable 4X4s. They all have equally created a few poorly
designed and incapable vehicles as well. ( In my opinion the RAV4 is one of
these)

All the vehicles have been designed and manufactured for general on highway
use with vehicle safety regulations paramont. In fact, avid offroad use
with any of these almost always requires aftermarket modifications just to
meet the average, unknowing buyers expectations. Such mods usually are
bigger tires, suspension lifts, gear changes, traction devices and so forth.

For my personal preferences, I wanted capability in difficult off road
conditions while maintaining on highway manners and safety. My vehicle of
choice was a Jeep Wrangler. My Jeep is considered highly modified by stock
vehicle standards, but I can do anything I want with it and also use it as
my daily driver.

For the novice, there are a few simple rules when exploring the 4X4 realm:

1. Never stress your vehicle beyond its capability or it will break.

In order to follow this rule you must learn about your vehicle and what
it can do. Your owner's manual is the first place to go. Follow its
recommendations for the conditions you want to drive in and then go try it
out. If you find it lacking in capability, then research what you have to
do to improve it.

Remember this -- 4x4 doesn't really mean you have 4 wheel drive. When you
shift into four wheel drive all you're really doing is transfering engine
power and torque to both axles instead of one. Because of differential
design only one wheel on each axle is driving the vehicle. Normally, the
wheel with the least amont of traction gets the power. That power or torque
will shift from one wheel to the other during different traction situations,
but still only one wheel on each axle will have power. An example would be
if you have one wheel off the ground (no traction) and one on the ground,
the wheel not contacting the ground will get the engine power. Does'nt seem
right but that's the way it is.

2. Never under any circumstance place your vehicle in four wheel drive on
dry pavement.

Four wheel drive is for situations where there is loss of traction. The
four wheel drive system on most 4X4s needs a certain amount of slippage.
Without slippage the driveline will be stressed and could result in damage
and expensive repair bills.

3. Never go four wheeling alone. Always take a friend with his own 4X4 and
a tow strap along for the trip. Things can happen like getting stuck miles
from nowhere with no help. I can't tell you how many times I've happened
along on this situation.

4. 4X4s are maintenance intensive. I know you've heard this before. What
it really means is that if you intend to take your vehicle off road then
preventive maintenance is the best insurance. Check all your fluids to make
sure they are at the proper levels. 4X4 use makes your vehicle work harder
than on the highway. As a result, fluid changes like the oil, transfer case
and differentials will be required at frequent interval as well as lube.
Not only will this keep your vehicle in prime shape to handle the trails it
will ensure a long life to your driveline and suspension components. Also,
off road use will eventually result in something breaking.

5. Obstacles and other unforseen trail anomalies. Never try to bonzai an
obstacle to get over it. Not only is it unsafe, but you will put
unneccessary and potentially damaging stress on your vehicle. Slow and
deliberate is the rule. If you can't negotiate the obstacle in this way
then you just discovered your vehicle's limitation. Sure, you may be able
to get past the problem with a little extra throttle, but be prepared for
breakage.

Now keep in mind that in these few short words, I have come no where near
describing all of the nuances with 4X4 vehicles or their capabilities. Nor
have I delved to deeply into various off road situations and conditions.
Suffice it to say, I've given you the absolute basics.

Here's my opinion on your vehicle -- The RAV4 is a relatively inexpensive,
light duty 4X4 vehicle with limited capabilty. Is is well suited for on
road limited traction situation in rain or light snow. Off road should be
limited to unimproved dirt roads and minimal obstacles. It is economical to
operate and possesses sufficient quality comensurate its Asian manufacturer.
It would not be my first choice for a 4X4.

Hope you get something out of this.
Scott
--


---------------------------------------------------------------------
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There is a solution!"

Protected by GIANT Company's Spam Inspector
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"LovingPerson" > wrote in message
om...
> disclaimer: I know that the rav4 is not a real 4x4. I have very
> little knowledge of 4x4's. This is why I came here. I would like to
> find some patient person who will be kind enough to not flame, but
> dispense out some basic knowledge
>
> Dear all:
>
> My buddy just bought a Rav4. I helped him pick it out. Since I
> am currently unemployed, I have a lot of time and scanned through many
> ads and found a black on dark grey Rav4 1998 with only 99k miles. It
> is a manual drive (which, I think is the only way to go), and it has
> just had timing belt and water pump replaced. The price was
> unbelieveable @ 5700 dollars. The carfax report was clean and the car
> is clean and drives well.
>
> Both he and I have never owned a 4X4 before. We were just
> wondering about the finer points of driving one. The guy who showed
> us the car taught us a little: to demonstrate the differential
> locking, he had us engage the 4x4 and then turn real tight circles.
> We felt the diff grinding in those turns. Was this really really bad
> for the differential when we did that repeatedly? Now that I think
> about it, I am hoping that we didn't put undue stress on the
> differential.
>
> My buddy is going to park it at my house and I live on an air
> force base. I am hoping to take it out and use the 4x4 feature. I
> have some grass areas. I am hoping that on grass, I won't grind the
> differential. I just don't want to hurt the car. I am also going to
> try to find some ice and see the traction.
>
> I know these are not very good questions I am asking. This is
> because I don't really know the questions to ask. Could someone just
> start at the beginning and dispense out some good knowledge on how we
> can get the most use and best fun out of the 4x4? I know this rav4 is
> not an outright offroad car, but I would like to take it to some
> terrain or some conditions where I can really appreciate the 4x4
> features.
>
> sincerely, thanx in advance.

> Remember this -- 4x4 doesn't really mean you have 4 wheel drive. When
you
> shift into four wheel drive all you're really doing is transfering engine
> power and torque to both axles instead of one. Because of differential
> design only one wheel on each axle is driving the vehicle. Normally, the
> wheel with the least amont of traction gets the power. That power or
torque
> will shift from one wheel to the other during different traction
situations,
> but still only one wheel on each axle will have power. An example would
be
> if you have one wheel off the ground (no traction) and one on the ground,
> the wheel not contacting the ground will get the engine power. Does'nt
seem
> right but that's the way it is.

To illustrate this: I used to have Subaru Forester which is in similar class
to RAV4, and this is a real-life example. Find a plowed icy road with snow
piled on the side, and drive both side wheels into the snow (as if parking
on the curb) while other side stays on (icy) road. Congratulations, you're
stuck! Wheels on (icy) road will have less traction and will be spinning,
while wheels in snow won't even turn.

Peter

> Remember this -- 4x4 doesn't really mean you have 4 wheel drive. When
you
> shift into four wheel drive all you're really doing is transfering engine
> power and torque to both axles instead of one. Because of differential
> design only one wheel on each axle is driving the vehicle. Normally, the
> wheel with the least amont of traction gets the power. That power or
torque
> will shift from one wheel to the other during different traction
situations,
> but still only one wheel on each axle will have power. An example would
be
> if you have one wheel off the ground (no traction) and one on the ground,
> the wheel not contacting the ground will get the engine power. Does'nt
seem
> right but that's the way it is.

To illustrate this: I used to have Subaru Forester which is in similar class
to RAV4, and this is a real-life example. Find a plowed icy road with snow
piled on the side, and drive both side wheels into the snow (as if parking
on the curb) while other side stays on (icy) road. Congratulations, you're
stuck! Wheels on (icy) road will have less traction and will be spinning,
while wheels in snow won't even turn.

Peter

Peter wrote:
>
> > Remember this -- 4x4 doesn't really mean you have 4 wheel drive. When
> you
> > shift into four wheel drive all you're really doing is transfering engine
> > power and torque to both axles instead of one. Because of differential
> > design only one wheel on each axle is driving the vehicle. Normally, the
> > wheel with the least amont of traction gets the power. That power or
> torque
> > will shift from one wheel to the other during different traction
> situations,
> > but still only one wheel on each axle will have power. An example would
> be
> > if you have one wheel off the ground (no traction) and one on the ground,
> > the wheel not contacting the ground will get the engine power. Does'nt
> seem
> > right but that's the way it is.
>
> To illustrate this: I used to have Subaru Forester which is in similar class
> to RAV4, and this is a real-life example. Find a plowed icy road with snow
> piled on the side, and drive both side wheels into the snow (as if parking
> on the curb) while other side stays on (icy) road. Congratulations, you're
> stuck! Wheels on (icy) road will have less traction and will be spinning,
> while wheels in snow won't even turn.
>
> Peter

And when this happens, you can either apply the emergency brake or use
your foot on the brake pedal to give the brakes a hit.

This will load up the wheel on ice that is spinning and transfer some
torque to the wheel in the snow that has more traction so isn't turning.

This is an old trick and it works very well with some practice. I have
been sitting on ice a few times with one front and one rear wheel just a
spinning away and folks are going for the straps to give me a tug when I
nail the brake pedal pretty hard while giving it gas. Bingo, 2 rear
rooster tails and sometimes all 4 catch. It works easiest on the rear
drum brakes.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Peter wrote:
>
> > Remember this -- 4x4 doesn't really mean you have 4 wheel drive. When
> you
> > shift into four wheel drive all you're really doing is transfering engine
> > power and torque to both axles instead of one. Because of differential
> > design only one wheel on each axle is driving the vehicle. Normally, the
> > wheel with the least amont of traction gets the power. That power or
> torque
> > will shift from one wheel to the other during different traction
> situations,
> > but still only one wheel on each axle will have power. An example would
> be
> > if you have one wheel off the ground (no traction) and one on the ground,
> > the wheel not contacting the ground will get the engine power. Does'nt
> seem
> > right but that's the way it is.
>
> To illustrate this: I used to have Subaru Forester which is in similar class
> to RAV4, and this is a real-life example. Find a plowed icy road with snow
> piled on the side, and drive both side wheels into the snow (as if parking
> on the curb) while other side stays on (icy) road. Congratulations, you're
> stuck! Wheels on (icy) road will have less traction and will be spinning,
> while wheels in snow won't even turn.
>
> Peter

And when this happens, you can either apply the emergency brake or use
your foot on the brake pedal to give the brakes a hit.

This will load up the wheel on ice that is spinning and transfer some
torque to the wheel in the snow that has more traction so isn't turning.

This is an old trick and it works very well with some practice. I have
been sitting on ice a few times with one front and one rear wheel just a
spinning away and folks are going for the straps to give me a tug when I
nail the brake pedal pretty hard while giving it gas. Bingo, 2 rear
rooster tails and sometimes all 4 catch. It works easiest on the rear
drum brakes.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

On 11 Jan 2004 15:20:23 -0800, (LovingPerson) wrote:

>disclaimer: I know that the rav4 is not a real 4x4. I have very
>little knowledge of 4x4's. This is why I came here. I would like to
>find some patient person who will be kind enough to not flame, but
>dispense out some basic knowledge
>
>Dear all:
>
> My buddy just bought a Rav4. I helped him pick it out. Since I
>am currently unemployed, I have a lot of time and scanned through many
>ads and found a black on dark grey Rav4 1998 with only 99k miles. It
>is a manual drive (which, I think is the only way to go), and it has
>just had timing belt and water pump replaced. The price was
>unbelieveable @ 5700 dollars. The carfax report was clean and the car
>is clean and drives well.
>
> Both he and I have never owned a 4X4 before. We were just
>wondering about the finer points of driving one. The guy who showed
>us the car taught us a little: to demonstrate the differential
>locking, he had us engage the 4x4 and then turn real tight circles.
>We felt the diff grinding in those turns. Was this really really bad
>for the differential when we did that repeatedly? Now that I think
>about it, I am hoping that we didn't put undue stress on the
>differential.
>
> My buddy is going to park it at my house and I live on an air
>force base. I am hoping to take it out and use the 4x4 feature. I
>have some grass areas. I am hoping that on grass, I won't grind the
>differential. I just don't want to hurt the car. I am also going to
>try to find some ice and see the traction.
>
> I know these are not very good questions I am asking. This is
>because I don't really know the questions to ask. Could someone just
>start at the beginning and dispense out some good knowledge on how we
>can get the most use and best fun out of the 4x4? I know this rav4 is
>not an outright offroad car, but I would like to take it to some
>terrain or some conditions where I can really appreciate the 4x4
>features.
>
>sincerely, thanx in advance.


Join a 4wd club. Most clubs have beginner trails/trips and classes.
It's a good, safe way to learn what you and your vehicle are capable
of.

On 11 Jan 2004 15:20:23 -0800, (LovingPerson) wrote:

>disclaimer: I know that the rav4 is not a real 4x4. I have very
>little knowledge of 4x4's. This is why I came here. I would like to
>find some patient person who will be kind enough to not flame, but
>dispense out some basic knowledge
>
>Dear all:
>
> My buddy just bought a Rav4. I helped him pick it out. Since I
>am currently unemployed, I have a lot of time and scanned through many
>ads and found a black on dark grey Rav4 1998 with only 99k miles. It
>is a manual drive (which, I think is the only way to go), and it has
>just had timing belt and water pump replaced. The price was
>unbelieveable @ 5700 dollars. The carfax report was clean and the car
>is clean and drives well.
>
> Both he and I have never owned a 4X4 before. We were just
>wondering about the finer points of driving one. The guy who showed
>us the car taught us a little: to demonstrate the differential
>locking, he had us engage the 4x4 and then turn real tight circles.
>We felt the diff grinding in those turns. Was this really really bad
>for the differential when we did that repeatedly? Now that I think
>about it, I am hoping that we didn't put undue stress on the
>differential.
>
> My buddy is going to park it at my house and I live on an air
>force base. I am hoping to take it out and use the 4x4 feature. I
>have some grass areas. I am hoping that on grass, I won't grind the
>differential. I just don't want to hurt the car. I am also going to
>try to find some ice and see the traction.
>
> I know these are not very good questions I am asking. This is
>because I don't really know the questions to ask. Could someone just
>start at the beginning and dispense out some good knowledge on how we
>can get the most use and best fun out of the 4x4? I know this rav4 is
>not an outright offroad car, but I would like to take it to some
>terrain or some conditions where I can really appreciate the 4x4
>features.
>
>sincerely, thanx in advance.


Join a 4wd club. Most clubs have beginner trails/trips and classes.
It's a good, safe way to learn what you and your vehicle are capable
of.

> And when this happens, you can either apply the emergency brake or use
> your foot on the brake pedal to give the brakes a hit.
>
> This will load up the wheel on ice that is spinning and transfer some
> torque to the wheel in the snow that has more traction so isn't turning.
>
> This is an old trick and it works very well with some practice. I have

I do know about that trick, but have never been able to actually do it -
feels like I'm breaking something by flooring brake & gas at the same time.
It should be putting some undue strain on transmission, doesn't it?

Peter