Believe it or not?

This one seems hard to believe, not?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070207/...s_fuel_ford_dc

Although the Dutch are the most reliable people, who would be
unlikely to make a claim that was not fully warranted
scientifically.

Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen Bess, the Miata Bozo, the Miata
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
The only thing better than a white Miata is two white Miatas

In article >,
(Leon van Dommelen) wrote:

> This one seems hard to believe, not?
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070207/...s_fuel_ford_dc
>
> Although the Dutch are the most reliable people, who would be
> unlikely to make a claim that was not fully warranted
> scientifically.

About 40 years ago, an acquaintance of mine wired his race car's
generator through the brakelight switch, so it only charged the battery
during braking. It wasn't to save fuel, but to reclaim a tiny bit of
power in a very competitive SCCA class. Dunno if he was Dutch or not...

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 02:02:19 GMT, Lanny Chambers > wrote:

>About 40 years ago, an acquaintance of mine wired his race car's
>generator through the brakelight switch, so it only charged the battery
>during braking. It wasn't to save fuel, but to reclaim a tiny bit of
>power in a very competitive SCCA class. Dunno if he was Dutch or not...

Some of us run Formula Fords with no generator/alternator at all. We even use
motorcycle batteries to save weight.

Better not stall on the course or track, though... 8

And of course no radiator fan, for the same reason.

-- Larry

(Leon van Dommelen) wrote:

> This one seems hard to believe, not?
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070207/...s_fuel_ford_dc
>
> Although the Dutch are the most reliable people, who would be
> unlikely to make a claim that was not fully warranted
> scientifically.

It is hard to believe.

Many cars are driven in heavy stop and go traffic with the radio,
airconditioning, etc. on and the load on the electrical system is very
big and a large number of these cars are driven for VERY short
distances before stopping and then later starting again. The
alternator barely has enough time to charge the battery fully before
the car stops and is started again. This device would not save
anything on cars such as that as it would have to allow full charge at
all times.

As for highway driving, as the battery is fully charged any modern
alternator/regulator reduces load on the alternator by reducing current
through the field windings w/o any such device so.... what would it
really accomplish?

I think maybe his claim is inflated a bit? Possibly too much Heinekens
dark? If so, he's a man of excellent taste!

XS11E > wrote:

(Leon van Dommelen) wrote:
>
>> This one seems hard to believe, not?
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070207/...s_fuel_ford_dc
>>
>> Although the Dutch are the most reliable people, who would be
>> unlikely to make a claim that was not fully warranted
>> scientifically.
>
>It is hard to believe.
>
>Many cars are driven in heavy stop and go traffic with the radio,
>airconditioning, etc. on and the load on the electrical system is very
>big and a large number of these cars are driven for VERY short
>distances before stopping and then later starting again. The
>alternator barely has enough time to charge the battery fully before
>the car stops and is started again. This device would not save
>anything on cars such as that as it would have to allow full charge at
>all times.
>
>As for highway driving, as the battery is fully charged any modern
>alternator/regulator reduces load on the alternator by reducing current
>through the field windings w/o any such device so.... what would it
>really accomplish?
>
>I think maybe his claim is inflated a bit? Possibly too much Heinekens
>dark? If so, he's a man of excellent taste!

I would think so too, with the inflation, not the Heineken. Car engine
technology is highly developed. Finding 2.6% reduction just lying on
the engine block sounds weird.

I guess if you zig-zag enough under the influence of a few bottles of
Kasteel, the trailing mileage-measuring-wheel may easily travel 2.6%
more than the car did.

Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen Bess, the Miata Bozo, the Miata
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
The only thing better than a white Miata is two white Miatas

In article >,
(Leon van Dommelen) wrote:

> Finding 2.6% reduction just lying on
> the engine block sounds weird.

Automakers will do anything to get a free increase in CAFE mileage.
They're specifying 0W-40 oil now to reduce losses from cold oil and
crankcase windage. Most new cars have some sort of cold-air induction.

My new Mazda3 has gotten 26+ mpg for its first two tanks. My
not-quite-stock 240Z, which had much less frontal area and weighed 600
lb. less than the 3 but wasn't as fast, got only 20. Most of that
progress was in engine management, and I have no doubt there are still a
few tricks to be learned.

Sounds believable to me. Maybe just as easy as setting 3 differant
voltages:
If no throttle, & moving charge to 14V
If medium throttle cruising, charge to 13.8V
If WOT, or idling charge to 13.6V

That way most charging will happen when the car is going down hill or
decelerating.

Also the article says "UP TO 2.6%"

Maybe a 600cc Fiat Bambino driving up & down hills with big spotlights, the
demister on, and the stereo up full could get 2.6%, while a typical Miata
under typical conditions only get .5%.

"Leon van Dommelen" > wrote in message
...
> This one seems hard to believe, not?
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070207/...s_fuel_ford_dc
>
> Although the Dutch are the most reliable people, who would be
> unlikely to make a claim that was not fully warranted
> scientifically.
>
> Leon
> --
> Leon van Dommelen Bess, the Miata Bozo, the Miata
> http://www.dommelen.net/miata
> The only thing better than a white Miata is two white Miatas

Lanny Chambers wrote:

> Automakers will do anything to get a free increase in CAFE mileage.
> They're specifying 0W-40 oil now to reduce losses from cold oil and
> crankcase windage. Most new cars have some sort of cold-air induction.
>
> My new Mazda3 has gotten 26+ mpg for its first two tanks. My
> not-quite-stock 240Z, which had much less frontal area and weighed 600
> lb. less than the 3 but wasn't as fast, got only 20. Most of that
> progress was in engine management, and I have no doubt there are still a
> few tricks to be learned.

He was talking about reducing fuel consumption on one specific vehicle
by adding software, you are comparing very old apples with very new
apples, which is almost apples and oranges with automobiles.

Of course your modern, fuel-injected and computer controlled car is
going to get better gas mileage than that straight six with SU carbs
that came out over 35 years ago. 600 pounds is not enough to stop that,
it's not like you bought a big SUV.

You would have to do a wind drag test to be certain, but I have a
feeling that the vastly improved aerodynamics of the Mazda3 are going to
put the newer car ahead in that area as well.

There is also gearing to consider, and I am going to make a wild guess
that your foot was heavier with your modified Z-car than it has been
with your brand new Mazda3 since you bought it, unless you have been
breaking it in by running the hell out of it for the first two tanks of gas.

Pat

pws > wrote:

> Of course your modern, fuel-injected and computer controlled car
> is going to get better gas mileage than that straight six with SU
> carbs that came out over 35 years ago.

He said he got 20mpg on the 240z which tells me he'd replaced all the
cork gaskets on the SU carbs with neoprene O rings. Otherwise the SU
carbs with the cork gaskets would leak a gallon every 5 miles!

That's the very first trick I learned on SUs, the O rings seemed to
permanently cure all the leaks. When I had my TR3 I had to find a
plumbing store to get neoprene O rings, they didn't have the
availability they have now.

I really liked the TR-3, I'd get a kick out of driving one today......

"Mal Osborne" > wrote:

> Sounds believable to me. Maybe just as easy as setting 3
> differant voltages:
> If no throttle, & moving charge to 14V
> If medium throttle cruising, charge to 13.8V
> If WOT, or idling charge to 13.6V
>
> That way most charging will happen when the car is going down hill
> or decelerating.

I don't think that's possible. The system would have to consider the
charge level of the battery and maintain maximum charge if the battery
was low. If it followed the above scheme when the car had just been
started, it wouldn't allow the battery to charge up during very short
trips.

Also, remember the voltage regulator reduces field current as the
battery becomes fully charged so it doesn't need an additional device
to eliminate the alternator once the battery is charged, an alternator
with little or no field current should produce only mechanical drag
(belt, bearings, brushes, etc.) so I think the whole thing is a pipe
dream.

> Also the article says "UP TO 2.6%"

Yup. That just might mean that out of many tests there was 0% increase
in all except one fluke.. <GD&R>