Lincoln vs Cadillac

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> R Mach > wrote:
>> Well...the Cadillac Northstar engine is a masterpiece...and even the
>> Corvette does not have a comparable engine.
>
> This is true. BUT, after developing the Northstar technology, GM has been
> very, very slow and putting it into the rest of their line. They come out
> with a product that is a clear advancement and then they don't put it into
> cars where it can do the most good.


I would say that the whole Northstar engine program is pretty much a
failure. It looked fantastic on paper when it appeared in the early 90s,
but hell, it hasn't progressed very far at all since then and has had
more than its share of chronic problems. I'd still own one, but I sure
wouldn't think I was getting GM's best any longer.

On the other hand, In 1992 the run-of-the-mill Chevrolet v8 was a
cheap-to-produce mediocre engine that while easy to maintain and capable
of doing whatever was asked of it was in many ways inferior to its
departed Oldsmobile equivalent, let alone Chrysler and Ford smallblocks.
Fast forward to 2009 and the Chevy pushrod v8 is an absolutely,
reliable, lightweight modern engine family that shares nothing
whatsoever with the old smallblock Chevy except the spacing of the
cylinder bores. AND it completely passed the Northstar in total power
and in fuel efficiency too.

Steve W. > wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> R Mach > wrote:
>>> Well...the Cadillac Northstar engine is a masterpiece...and even the
>>> Corvette does not have a comparable engine.
>>
>> This is true. BUT, after developing the Northstar technology, GM has been
>> very, very slow and putting it into the rest of their line. They come out
>> with a product that is a clear advancement and then they don't put it into
>> cars where it can do the most good.
>
>Talk to the folks who have to work on those Northstar engines to get the
>low down. They are a PIA to work on and have a fair share of unresolved
>problems as well.

This is true, and SOME of the unresolved problems are relatively simple
issues to fix with minor design changes. But it's as if GM has decided that
development stops when the design ships.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...

> This has been true, but I think the Escalade and the CTS have both been
> doing a lot to turn Cadillac's name around.
> --scott

Making it a callidaC, huh, Scott?
Seriously, I think the newer Cadillac's are better cars than they were a few
years
ago.

HLS wrote:
>
> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> This has been true, but I think the Escalade and the CTS have both been
>> doing a lot to turn Cadillac's name around.
>> --scott
>
> Making it a callidaC, huh, Scott?
> Seriously, I think the newer Cadillac's are better cars than they were a
> few years
> ago.

ESCALADE???

Cadillac used to mean a top of the line American car.

Now it means whatever trendy, plastic-clad crap GM can pawn off onto
people with too much money and too little brains, thanks to the
Escalade. Being the vehicle of choice of upwardly mobile drug dealers
and nouveau riche rappers is undoubtedly NOT the image GM would really
prefer to have for its "premium" brand.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel > wrote:
>ESCALADE???
>
>Cadillac used to mean a top of the line American car.
>
>Now it means whatever trendy, plastic-clad crap GM can pawn off onto
>people with too much money and too little brains, thanks to the
>Escalade. Being the vehicle of choice of upwardly mobile drug dealers
>and nouveau riche rappers is undoubtedly NOT the image GM would really
>prefer to have for its "premium" brand.

I don't know, the whole nouveau riche rapper culture has a big following,
and they buy cars. I don't personally like the culture or the car either,
but you have to admit that it sells. Right now, that's more than GM can
say about most of their other lines.

I think the Escalade definitely has turned the Cadillac name around among
the younger and hipper crowd. Before it became popular, they thought of
the Cadillac as a car that elderly guys drove at 45 mph in the left lane
with the turn signals going on for miles. That's no longer the impression
the name gives any more, and they need to carry that ball and run with it.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On May 1, 10:47*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> Nate Nagel > wrote:
>
> >ESCALADE???
>
> >Cadillac used to mean a top of the line American car.
>
> >Now it means whatever trendy, plastic-clad crap GM can pawn off onto
> >people with too much money and too little brains, thanks to the
> >Escalade. *Being the vehicle of choice of upwardly mobile drug dealers
> >and nouveau riche rappers is undoubtedly NOT the image GM would really
> >prefer to have for its "premium" brand.
>
> I don't know, the whole nouveau riche rapper culture has a big following,
> and they buy cars. *I don't personally like the culture or the car either,
> but you have to admit that it sells. *Right now, that's more than GM can
> say about most of their other lines.
>
> I think the Escalade definitely has turned the Cadillac name around among
> the younger and hipper crowd. *Before it became popular, they thought of
> the Cadillac as a car that elderly guys drove at 45 mph in the left lane
> with the turn signals going on for miles. *That's no longer the impression
> the name gives any more, and they need to carry that ball and run with it..
> --scott

Eventually I believe people will figure out that an Escalade is simply
a Yukon with some ugly bodywork and cheap leather seats, and adjust
their purchases accordingly...

nate

N8N > wrote:
>
>Eventually I believe people will figure out that an Escalade is simply
>a Yukon with some ugly bodywork and cheap leather seats, and adjust
>their purchases accordingly...

Of course. That's why Cadillac needs to have the Next Best Thing under
development right now, so that when this happens they'll have something
else to sell.

If they don't have something else to sell when the Escalade fails in that
market, they are going to lose the momentum and then it'll take years to
get it back again. Which is what happened to Cadillac years earlier.
--scott

Also, I think calling that plastic-coated hide "leather" is really pushing
it....
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> N8N > wrote:
>> Eventually I believe people will figure out that an Escalade is simply
>> a Yukon with some ugly bodywork and cheap leather seats, and adjust
>> their purchases accordingly...
>
> Of course. That's why Cadillac needs to have the Next Best Thing under
> development right now, so that when this happens they'll have something
> else to sell.
>
> If they don't have something else to sell when the Escalade fails in that
> market, they are going to lose the momentum and then it'll take years to
> get it back again. Which is what happened to Cadillac years earlier.
> --scott
>
> Also, I think calling that plastic-coated hide "leather" is really pushing
> it....

While not calling it "brilliant" the CTS (or whatever it's called) that
comes with the 'Vette motor and 90% of a 'Vette's suspension is a good
move.

Put the premium engineering into a premium priced car.

Now, they gotta put the premium engineering into a cheap car to save
themselves.

The Malibu is a start, but it has to get way more "Accord" to satisfy
(IOW not feel as cheap as it is).

Mid-Size GM sedans are total junk as is the (now dead) Trailblazer.
Expensive for what you get and engineered to be junk in 5 years (just as
you pay it off).

Ahh, for the days when cars were much simpler, and more reliable.
cuhulin

In a roundabout way, many years ago, Cadillac got it's start from Henry
Ford.
cuhulin