Lincoln vs Cadillac

Surprised that GM didn't drop Cadillac. From my experience I find that
Lincoln Town Car is greatly preferred to full size Cadillacs. The
general consensus is that Cadillac is junk, inferior even to Chevrolet.

A limo service told me that they haven't used Cadillac in years.
Because they break down a lot and always in the shop.
Towncar owners are repeat owners many on their 3rd or 4th Towncar.
Towncars are built on same chassis and engine as the Ford Crown
Victoria, a very reliable long lasting popular police car and taxi cab.

GM was a fool to keep Cadillac and get rid of Saturn. Cadillac should
of been shut down 10 years ago. Most used Cadillacs are driven by
uneducated, poor, ghetto dwellers or white trash.

PS: If you looking for a used car never buy a Cadillac or Audi. both
overrated and very unreliable.

On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 07:00:07 -0500, (Bailey B)
wrote:

>Surprised that GM didn't drop Cadillac. From my experience I find that
>Lincoln Town Car is greatly preferred to full size Cadillacs. The
>general consensus is that Cadillac is junk, inferior even to Chevrolet.
>
>A limo service told me that they haven't used Cadillac in years.
>Because they break down a lot and always in the shop.
>Towncar owners are repeat owners many on their 3rd or 4th Towncar.
>Towncars are built on same chassis and engine as the Ford Crown
>Victoria, a very reliable long lasting popular police car and taxi cab.
>
>GM was a fool to keep Cadillac and get rid of Saturn. Cadillac should
>of been shut down 10 years ago. Most used Cadillacs are driven by
>uneducated, poor, ghetto dwellers or white trash.
>
>PS: If you looking for a used car never buy a Cadillac or Audi. both
>overrated and very unreliable.


Troll

> Surprised that GM didn't drop Cadillac. From my experience I find that
> Lincoln Town Car is greatly preferred to full size Cadillacs. The
> general consensus is that Cadillac is junk, inferior even to Chevrolet.
> A limo service told me that they haven't used Cadillac in years.
> Because they break down a lot and always in the shop.
> Towncar owners are repeat owners many on their 3rd or 4th Towncar.
> Towncars are built on same chassis and engine as the Ford Crown
> Victoria, a very reliable long lasting popular police car and taxi cab.
> GM was a fool to keep Cadillac and get rid of Saturn. Cadillac should
> of been shut down 10 years ago. Most used Cadillacs are driven

Well...the Cadillac Northstar engine is a masterpiece...and even the
Corvette does not have a comparable engine.

The rest of Cadillac is mostly a willingness to develop or offer or include
features. There's electronic damping, optional direct-fuel-injection, power
seats, heated seats, and so on. Actually the paint on a 10 year Cadillac
looks very good...

And I think that the Lincoln Towncar has a longer wheelbase than the Crown
Victoria...

Now the Lincoln LS V-8 may have been a masterpiece...and actually it was
based on a Jaguar. (To figure out which Jaguar just match up the
wheelbases.) But Lincoln didn't say "here's our version of a Jaguar" they
said "compare this car to the BMW 5 Series"...and no one was interested at
the LS price...and that after a few years.

>> Surprised that GM didn't drop Cadillac. From my experience I find that
>> Lincoln Town Car is greatly preferred to full size Cadillacs. The
>> general consensus is that Cadillac is junk, inferior even to Chevrolet.
>> A limo service told me that they haven't used Cadillac in years.
>> Because they break down a lot and always in the shop.
>> Towncar owners are repeat owners many on their 3rd or 4th Towncar.
>> Towncars are built on same chassis and engine as the Ford Crown
>> Victoria, a very reliable long lasting popular police car and taxi cab.
>> GM was a fool to keep Cadillac and get rid of Saturn. Cadillac should
>> of been shut down 10 years ago. Most used Cadillacs are driven
>
> Well...the Cadillac Northstar engine is a masterpiece...and even the
> Corvette does not have a comparable engine.
>
> The rest of Cadillac is mostly a willingness to develop or offer or
> include features. There's electronic damping, optional
> direct-fuel-injection, power seats, heated seats, and so on. Actually the
> paint on a 10 year Cadillac looks very good...
>
> And I think that the Lincoln Towncar has a longer wheelbase than the Crown
> Victoria...
>
> Now the Lincoln LS V-8 may have been a masterpiece...and actually it was
> based on a Jaguar. (To figure out which Jaguar just match up the
> wheelbases.) But Lincoln didn't say "here's our version of a Jaguar" they
> said "compare this car to the BMW 5 Series"...and no one was interested at
> the LS price...and that after a few years.

And the current Lincoln mid-size car is based on the Ford Fusion which is
itself based on the Mazda 6...

R Mach wrote:

>
> Well...the Cadillac Northstar engine is a masterpiece...and even the
> Corvette does not have a comparable engine.
>
Only if you ignore the Northstar's tendency to pull the head bolt
threads, pull the main cap bolt threads, and develop case leaks.

"R Mach" > wrote in message
...

> Now the Lincoln LS V-8 may have been a masterpiece...and actually it
> was based on a Jaguar. (To figure out which Jaguar just match up the
> wheelbases.)

Since the engine is built in a Ford factory, don't you think it would
be more correct to say Jaguar is using a Ford engine? I suppose it was
mostly a Jaguar design, but since Ford owned Jaguar at the time, is
there a difference? And when Ford sold Jaguar, they kept the engine
factory and now supply the engines to Jaguar.

> But Lincoln didn't say "here's our version of a Jaguar" they said
> "compare this car to the BMW 5 Series"...and no one was interested
> at the LS price...and that after a few years.

Let's see, Lincoln sold the LS for six years and sold over 210,000 of
them in the US. This is not so much different that BMW 5 Series Sales.

Ed

R Mach > wrote:
>
>Well...the Cadillac Northstar engine is a masterpiece...and even the
>Corvette does not have a comparable engine.

This is true. BUT, after developing the Northstar technology, GM has been
very, very slow and putting it into the rest of their line. They come out
with a product that is a clear advancement and then they don't put it into
cars where it can do the most good.

>The rest of Cadillac is mostly a willingness to develop or offer or include
>features. There's electronic damping, optional direct-fuel-injection, power
>seats, heated seats, and so on. Actually the paint on a 10 year Cadillac
>looks very good...

Yes, it's a Chevy with upgrades. And there is nothing wrong with that.

>Now the Lincoln LS V-8 may have been a masterpiece...and actually it was
>based on a Jaguar. (To figure out which Jaguar just match up the
>wheelbases.) But Lincoln didn't say "here's our version of a Jaguar" they
>said "compare this car to the BMW 5 Series"...and no one was interested at
>the LS price...and that after a few years.

What's sad is that BMW has now bloated the 5-series up so that it's as
big as a Lincoln LS....
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> R Mach > wrote:
>> Well...the Cadillac Northstar engine is a masterpiece...and even the
>> Corvette does not have a comparable engine.
>
> This is true. BUT, after developing the Northstar technology, GM has been
> very, very slow and putting it into the rest of their line. They come out
> with a product that is a clear advancement and then they don't put it into
> cars where it can do the most good.

Talk to the folks who have to work on those Northstar engines to get the
low down. They are a PIA to work on and have a fair share of unresolved
problems as well.

>
>> The rest of Cadillac is mostly a willingness to develop or offer or include
>> features. There's electronic damping, optional direct-fuel-injection, power
>> seats, heated seats, and so on. Actually the paint on a 10 year Cadillac
>> looks very good...
>
> Yes, it's a Chevy with upgrades. And there is nothing wrong with that.
>
>> Now the Lincoln LS V-8 may have been a masterpiece...and actually it was
>> based on a Jaguar. (To figure out which Jaguar just match up the
>> wheelbases.) But Lincoln didn't say "here's our version of a Jaguar" they
>> said "compare this car to the BMW 5 Series"...and no one was interested at
>> the LS price...and that after a few years.
>
> What's sad is that BMW has now bloated the 5-series up so that it's as
> big as a Lincoln LS....
> --scott


--
Steve W.

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
>R Mach > wrote:
>>
>>Well...the Cadillac Northstar engine is a masterpiece...and even the
>>Corvette does not have a comparable engine.
>
> This is true. BUT, after developing the Northstar technology, GM
> has been
> very, very slow and putting it into the rest of their line. They
> come out
> with a product that is a clear advancement and then they don't put
> it into
> cars where it can do the most good.
>
>>The rest of Cadillac is mostly a willingness to develop or offer or
>>include
>>features. There's electronic damping, optional
>>direct-fuel-injection, power
>>seats, heated seats, and so on. Actually the paint on a 10 year
>>Cadillac
>>looks very good...
>
> Yes, it's a Chevy with upgrades. And there is nothing wrong with
> that.
>
>>Now the Lincoln LS V-8 may have been a masterpiece...and actually it
>>was
>>based on a Jaguar. (To figure out which Jaguar just match up the
>>wheelbases.) But Lincoln didn't say "here's our version of a Jaguar"
>>they
>>said "compare this car to the BMW 5 Series"...and no one was
>>interested at
>>the LS price...and that after a few years.
>
> What's sad is that BMW has now bloated the 5-series up so that it's
> as
> big as a Lincoln LS....

A Lincoln LS big???? Compared to what? A Town Car is big. An LS is
mediumed sized. Even when introduced the Lincoln LS and BMW 528 were
fairly close in size. And the BMW has not really gotten much bigger.

2000 Lincoln LS V8
Curb weight 3,692 lbs.
Exterior length 193.9"
Exterior body width 73.2"
Exterior height 56.1"
Wheelbase 114.5"
Front tread 60.5"
Rear tread 60.8"

2000 BMW 528
Curb weight 3,495 lbs.
Exterior length 188.0"
Exterior body width 70.9"
Exterior height 56.7"
Wheelbase 111.4"
Front tread 59.5"
Rear tread 59.6"

2010 BMW 535
Curb weight 3,660 lbs.
Exterior length 191.1"
Exterior body width 72.7"
Exterior height 57.8"
Wheelbase 113.7"
Front tread 61.3"
Rear tread 62.2"

Ed

R Mach wrote:

>> Well...the Cadillac Northstar engine is a masterpiece...and even the
>> Corvette does not have a comparable engine.
>
The Northstar is EXTREMELY compact for the amount of power it produces,
and in fact that was pretty much the whole driving force of its design.
When you get a good one its quiet, unobtrusive, and provides a smooth
rush of power. BUT- its a maintenance nightmare, pretty much
un-rebuildable, and has a small collection of chronic problems that have
never been fully sorted out (leaking oil and coolant through porous
block castings, and having head bolts pull out of the block material). I
for one don't care to own a vehicle that requires you to remove the
whole intake system just to replace the starter.

On the other hand, the current Gen IV smallblock v8 used in the Corvette
is actually the top-of-the-line engine offered in the performance
oriented V-series Cadillacs- positioned ABOVE the Northstar in the
product line. The 6.2L supercharged smallblock pushrod V8 produces 556
HP, compared to the Northstar's 320. Even normally aspirated in the
Escalade, the 6.2L pushrod smallblock puts out 403 HP- 83 more than the
most powerful Northstar version.


So you're right. The Corvette engine isn't comparable. Its decidedly
superior.