Petition to bring the Electric Car back to the Retail Market.

John S. > wrote:
>On Jul 21, 2:45 am, wrote:
>> Sign this petition to bring the electric car, which they
>
>Precisely who are the "they" that are keeping the electric car from
>us.

It's the government done it. See, since the government was taken over
by the General Motors division of Sony, they have been pressuring everyone
to use more and more gasoline. For example, the Texaco Division of Sony
(formerly owned by the Vatican Division of the International Communist
Conspiracy) has been showing record profits in the last couple of years.
This is because the Federal Trade Commission (now a division of Sony)
has been encouraging advertising of larger and larger vehicles to get
the American Population to use larger gasoline. That's why every car
manufacturer from Toyota (which is secretly controlled by the John Birch
Society Division of Sony) on up to BMW (actually a division of the Bavarian
Illuminati and Hanseatic League divisions of Sony) are producing huge SUVs.

ALL of this is the result of the Anti-Catholic League. See, the
Anti-Catholic league division of Sony wants to encourage the use of
birth control. Higher gas prices, combined with much larger average
car sizes, means teenagers are much more apt to go out on parking dates
where birth control is used, rather than taking dates on long drives.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

why?


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Ashton Crusher > wrote in article
>...
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:05:32 -0500, Steve > wrote:
>
> >Ashton Crusher wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 16:42:29 GMT, "
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 23:45:32 -0700, wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Sign this petition to bring the electric car, which they are keeping
> >>>
> >>>>from us, back to the retail market. Take a minute and read, then sign
> >>>
> >>>>it and email it to any and everyone you know. Together we can bring
> >>>>change, and it is time we stand tall and let our voice be heard.
> >>>>
> >>>>http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/ElectricCarDemand
> >>>
> >>>Where's the electricity to power all these cars going to come from?
> >>
> >>
> >> Most people will be doing their charging at night when we have an
> >> excess of generating capacity. It's very unlikely to be a problem.
> >
> >So we just pollute more at night than we do currently. Yeah, that's
great.
>
> There should be less pollution overall since the electrics will be
> more efficient and what pollution there is will often be away from
> where we are living so at least it won't all be in the air we breath.
> Nothings perfect.
>


What an ass!

That's exactly what is happening with the coal-fired pollution from the
mid-west.....It ALL ends up on the East coast and permeates pristine
environments such as the Maine wilderness with acid rain.

You're NOT a noble fighter against pollution because you support electric
cars.

You're just another NIMBY..........

On Jul 23, 4:28 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> John S. > wrote:
> >On Jul 21, 2:45 am, wrote:
> >> Sign this petition to bring the electric car, which they
>
> >Precisely who are the "they" that are keeping the electric car from
> >us.
>
> It's the government done it. See, since the government was taken over
> by the General Motors division of Sony, they have been pressuring everyone
> to use more and more gasoline. For example, the Texaco Division of Sony
> (formerly owned by the Vatican Division of the International Communist
> Conspiracy) has been showing record profits in the last couple of years.
> This is because the Federal Trade Commission (now a division of Sony)
> has been encouraging advertising of larger and larger vehicles to get
> the American Population to use larger gasoline. That's why every car
> manufacturer from Toyota (which is secretly controlled by the John Birch
> Society Division of Sony) on up to BMW (actually a division of the Bavarian
> Illuminati and Hanseatic League divisions of Sony) are producing huge SUVs.
>
> ALL of this is the result of the Anti-Catholic League. See, the
> Anti-Catholic league division of Sony wants to encourage the use of
> birth control. Higher gas prices, combined with much larger average
> car sizes, means teenagers are much more apt to go out on parking dates
> where birth control is used, rather than taking dates on long drives.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Ah, yes it's the big conspiracy. Likely it's run by former commies
who as we all know have been secretly gathering in Mexico for an
invasion of the U.S.

Ashton Crusher wrote:


>>Only if it has regenerative braking.
>
>
> That pretty much goes without saying for an electric car.

Not all electric cars have regenerative braking.

Ashton Crusher wrote:

> There should be less pollution overall since the electrics will be
> more efficient

Specifically how will an electric be more efficient than, say, a hybrid?
Will it be more aerodynamic? Will it have thinner higher-pressure tires?
No, you can't arbitrarily say that electric cars are "more efficient."
There are electric cars out there that are pretty damn primitive (no
regen braking, for example), but are getting some sales traction because
people believe "its electric, it must be efficient!"

> and what pollution there is will often be away from
> where we are living

I say all the pollution IN the cities, rather than pumping it out in
rural areas. That way the people causing it are the ones to suffer from
it, not vice-versa.

Ashton Crusher wrote:

> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 17:21:25 -0500, Steve > wrote:
>
>
>>Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>
>>
>>>There should be less pollution overall since the electrics will be
>>>more efficient
>>
>>Specifically how will an electric be more efficient than, say, a hybrid?
>
>
> Electric conversion is about 90% efficient.

That's certainly true for electric input to an electric motor compared
to mechanical power out. But batteries throw a big SNAFU in the mix.

Battery CHARGING efficiency is relatively poor, meaning that a pretty
big chunk of the power that comes out of the wall plug is never going to
get to the wheels of the car. I don't remember the latest efficiencies
for different battery technologies, but charging efficiency is not all
that far off from the peak efficiency of a good internal-combustion
engine, particularly a constant speed turbo-diesel. You can easily prove
this- feel your laptop battery or your cell phone battery after it's
been charging for a while- they get hot because not all the input power
gets stored, a lot is lost to heat.

IMO, and I could be wrong but I don't think I am, the overall most
efficient vehicle package would be a hybrid electric vehicle with a
small constant-speed (or two-speed ala Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive)
common-rail injected turbo diesel. And this still neglects manufacturing
energy- when you factor THAT in, a direct-to-wheels (ie conventional!)
small diesel or gas engine probably wins when you look at the total raw
material-to-the-crusher energy budget of a vehicle.

> Gas engines are way less.
> All other things being equal, a full electric should be more efficient
> when you compare the energy IN to the distance covered.

That depnds on what your definition of "in" is.....

Steve > wrote:
>
>Battery CHARGING efficiency is relatively poor, meaning that a pretty
>big chunk of the power that comes out of the wall plug is never going to
>get to the wheels of the car. I don't remember the latest efficiencies
>for different battery technologies, but charging efficiency is not all
>that far off from the peak efficiency of a good internal-combustion
>engine, particularly a constant speed turbo-diesel. You can easily prove
>this- feel your laptop battery or your cell phone battery after it's
>been charging for a while- they get hot because not all the input power
>gets stored, a lot is lost to heat.

Charging efficiency depends a lot on the speed of charging. If you are
willing to put up with a slow trickle charge for a couple days, you can
get nice high efficiencies even with lead-acid cells. If you want to
charge quickly, and everyone does, you will have to put up with badly
reduced charging efficiency.

Ultracapacitors (which are secretly batteries in disguise) help this
situation a bit, but not miraculously.

> IMO, and I could be wrong but I don't think I am, the overall most
>efficient vehicle package would be a hybrid electric vehicle with a
>small constant-speed (or two-speed ala Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive)
>common-rail injected turbo diesel. And this still neglects manufacturing
>energy- when you factor THAT in, a direct-to-wheels (ie conventional!)
>small diesel or gas engine probably wins when you look at the total raw
>material-to-the-crusher energy budget of a vehicle.

The thing about gasoline is the energy density is so damn high. With
a pure electric vehicle, you lose so much energy just lugging the batteries
around wherever you go. It's getting better, though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> The thing about gasoline is the energy density is so damn high. With
> a pure electric vehicle, you lose so much energy just lugging the batteries
> around wherever you go. It's getting better, though.
> --scott

When you strip everything else away, that is indeed the crux. NOTHING is
better than hydrocarbons at packing huge amounts of energy into a tiny
volume and light weight, and doing so rather safely. In fact, diesel has
more energy density than gasoline and you can practially put out a fire
with a bucket of #2 diesel (OK, thats an exaggeration, but its not
explosive like gasoline.)

In article >,
Steve > wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> The thing about gasoline is the energy density is so damn high. With
>> a pure electric vehicle, you lose so much energy just lugging the batteries
>> around wherever you go. It's getting better, though.
>
>When you strip everything else away, that is indeed the crux. NOTHING is
>better than hydrocarbons at packing huge amounts of energy into a tiny
>volume and light weight, and doing so rather safely. In fact, diesel has
>more energy density than gasoline and you can practially put out a fire
>with a bucket of #2 diesel (OK, thats an exaggeration, but its not
>explosive like gasoline.)

Well, that's the advantage of the whole hydrogen car thing. You take your
electricity, use it to produce hydrogen which is easier to store and
ligher than comparably-powered batteries, and use that. Of course, hydrogen
isn't half as easy to store as gasoline... but it took auto manufacturers
a long time to figure out how to store gasoline safely as it is.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."