Caravan: Both front calipers seized????

Hello all. OK just to keep it short, my brother has a 1994 Dodge
Caravan with the 3.0 engine and automatic transmission. This may or
may not be relevant to what I am about to ask but at the beginning of
last week he had the rack and pinion changed. Now he says when he
drives after about 20-30 minutes of city driving the brakes begin to
drag badly so that the van is hard to drive. He said last night it was
so bad when he got home he saw both front calipers "glowing red". I
just had time now to pull of the front wheels and had him pump the
brakes and hold the pedal down and opened the bleeders and both had a
strong fluid pressure so I know the master cylinder is working fine in
that regard. My question is..Is it possible BOTH front calipers are
going bad at the exact same time and if that's unlike what else could
I look at as the cause? Thanks in advance

Programbo wrote:
> Hello all. OK just to keep it short, my brother has a 1994 Dodge
> Caravan with the 3.0 engine and automatic transmission. This may or
> may not be relevant to what I am about to ask but at the beginning of
> last week he had the rack and pinion changed. Now he says when he
> drives after about 20-30 minutes of city driving the brakes begin to
> drag badly so that the van is hard to drive. He said last night it was
> so bad when he got home he saw both front calipers "glowing red". I
> just had time now to pull of the front wheels and had him pump the
> brakes and hold the pedal down and opened the bleeders and both had a
> strong fluid pressure so I know the master cylinder is working fine in
> that regard. My question is..Is it possible BOTH front calipers are
> going bad at the exact same time and if that's unlike what else could
> I look at as the cause? Thanks in advance

Two bad calipers are possible.
Bad hoses that are frayed inside.
Bad master cylinder, won't release pressure.
Don't know if it has abs, but that is another possibility.

On 12/18/2010 05:37 PM, Programbo wrote:
> Hello all. OK just to keep it short, my brother has a 1994 Dodge
> Caravan with the 3.0 engine and automatic transmission. This may or
> may not be relevant to what I am about to ask but at the beginning of
> last week he had the rack and pinion changed. Now he says when he
> drives after about 20-30 minutes of city driving the brakes begin to
> drag badly so that the van is hard to drive. He said last night it was
> so bad when he got home he saw both front calipers "glowing red". I
> just had time now to pull of the front wheels and had him pump the
> brakes and hold the pedal down and opened the bleeders and both had a
> strong fluid pressure so I know the master cylinder is working fine in
> that regard. My question is..Is it possible BOTH front calipers are
> going bad at the exact same time and if that's unlike what else could
> I look at as the cause? Thanks in advance

sounds like someone has adjusted the brake pedal free travel so the
fluid pressure equalization circuit hole is blocked. probably happened
while under the dash with the rack, they thought they'd "tighten things
up". re-adjustment of the pedal travel back to standard spec should
solve the problem.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On 12/18/2010 05:49 PM, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
> Programbo wrote:
>> Hello all. OK just to keep it short, my brother has a 1994 Dodge
>> Caravan with the 3.0 engine and automatic transmission. This may or
>> may not be relevant to what I am about to ask but at the beginning of
>> last week he had the rack and pinion changed. Now he says when he
>> drives after about 20-30 minutes of city driving the brakes begin to
>> drag badly so that the van is hard to drive. He said last night it was
>> so bad when he got home he saw both front calipers "glowing red". I
>> just had time now to pull of the front wheels and had him pump the
>> brakes and hold the pedal down and opened the bleeders and both had a
>> strong fluid pressure so I know the master cylinder is working fine in
>> that regard. My question is..Is it possible BOTH front calipers are
>> going bad at the exact same time and if that's unlike what else could
>> I look at as the cause? Thanks in advance
>
> Two bad calipers are possible.
> Bad hoses that are frayed inside.

how is that going to happen?


> Bad master cylinder, won't release pressure.
> Don't know if it has abs, but that is another possibility.
>


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

Programbo > wrote in news:0a5ebb81-f345-43b4-a320-
:

> Hello all. OK just to keep it short, my brother has a 1994 Dodge
> Caravan with the 3.0 engine and automatic transmission. This may or
> may not be relevant to what I am about to ask but at the beginning of
> last week he had the rack and pinion changed. Now he says when he
> drives after about 20-30 minutes of city driving the brakes begin to
> drag badly so that the van is hard to drive. He said last night it was
> so bad when he got home he saw both front calipers "glowing red". I
> just had time now to pull of the front wheels and had him pump the
> brakes and hold the pedal down and opened the bleeders and both had a
> strong fluid pressure so I know the master cylinder is working fine in
> that regard. My question is..Is it possible BOTH front calipers are
> going bad at the exact same time and if that's unlike what else could
> I look at as the cause? Thanks in advance



Did the garage need to remove the master cylinder to replace the rack?



--
Tegger

As a follow up..Is it possible the master cylinder is allowing fluid
to freely pressure the pads into the rotors but not allowing it to
flow back the other way and that eventually causes the problem I
described?

On 12/18/2010 3:37 PM, Programbo wrote:
> Hello all. OK just to keep it short, my brother has a 1994 Dodge
> Caravan with the 3.0 engine and automatic transmission. This may or
> may not be relevant to what I am about to ask but at the beginning of
> last week he had the rack and pinion changed. Now he says when he
> drives after about 20-30 minutes of city driving the brakes begin to
> drag badly so that the van is hard to drive. He said last night it was
> so bad when he got home he saw both front calipers "glowing red". I
> just had time now to pull of the front wheels and had him pump the
> brakes and hold the pedal down and opened the bleeders and both had a
> strong fluid pressure so I know the master cylinder is working fine in
> that regard. My question is..Is it possible BOTH front calipers are
> going bad at the exact same time and if that's unlike what else could
> I look at as the cause? Thanks in advance

It would have been more logical to check if the brakes were locking up
or dragging. Have you checked for this? If you haven't, then you should.

On 12/18/2010 07:21 PM, Programbo wrote:
> As a follow up..Is it possible the master cylinder is allowing fluid
> to freely pressure the pads into the rotors but not allowing it to
> flow back the other way and that eventually causes the problem I
> described?

kinda. but it's really the pressure equalizer valve being closed, so as
the brake fluid warms up during use, it expands and starts to apply the
brakes.

check out tegger's excellent write-up on master cylinder operation.

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/maste.../howworks.html

i do not however agree with him on pedal adjustment just for replacing
the master cylinder - the pedal should only be adjusted one time at
factory, and then left alone. if there is wear, say the pedal bushing,
the worn component needs to be replaced. there is NO adjustment
required for replacing the master cylinder - new and old are
dimensionally identical.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

jim beam wrote:
> On 12/18/2010 05:49 PM, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
>> Programbo wrote:
>>> Hello all. OK just to keep it short, my brother has a 1994 Dodge
>>> Caravan with the 3.0 engine and automatic transmission. This may or
>>> may not be relevant to what I am about to ask but at the beginning of
>>> last week he had the rack and pinion changed. Now he says when he
>>> drives after about 20-30 minutes of city driving the brakes begin to
>>> drag badly so that the van is hard to drive. He said last night it was
>>> so bad when he got home he saw both front calipers "glowing red". I
>>> just had time now to pull of the front wheels and had him pump the
>>> brakes and hold the pedal down and opened the bleeders and both had a
>>> strong fluid pressure so I know the master cylinder is working fine in
>>> that regard. My question is..Is it possible BOTH front calipers are
>>> going bad at the exact same time and if that's unlike what else could
>>> I look at as the cause? Thanks in advance
>>
>> Two bad calipers are possible.
>> Bad hoses that are frayed inside.
>
> how is that going to happen?

1. I was thinking that maybe they were almost freezing up already
but not noticed.
2. Something the shop did to the calipers or bushings.
3. Shop stretching the hose and rupturing them internally
during the r&p replacement.
>
>> Bad master cylinder, won't release pressure.
>> Don't know if it has abs, but that is another possibility.
>>
>
>

Programbo wrote:
> Hello all. OK just to keep it short, my brother has a 1994 Dodge
> Caravan with the 3.0 engine and automatic transmission. This may or
> may not be relevant to what I am about to ask but at the beginning of
> last week he had the rack and pinion changed. Now he says when he
> drives after about 20-30 minutes of city driving the brakes begin to
> drag badly so that the van is hard to drive. He said last night it was
> so bad when he got home he saw both front calipers "glowing red". I
> just had time now to pull of the front wheels and had him pump the
> brakes and hold the pedal down and opened the bleeders and both had a
> strong fluid pressure so I know the master cylinder is working fine in
> that regard. My question is..Is it possible BOTH front calipers are
> going bad at the exact same time and if that's unlike what else could
> I look at as the cause? Thanks in advance

Just thought of another thing:
Vac Booster is not letting go due to:
booster push rod out of adjustment
bad atmospheric valve