Oil and Filter Change

larry moe 'n curly wrote:

> [Walmart]...replaced their own Popular Mechanics brand with Stanley...
========

Thanks for mentioning that Walmart sells Stanley tools.

Picked up a 60-piece Stanley ratchet and socket set
at Walmart today, since I needed a 10 millimeter socket
for the Camry's air filter housing.

The socket set meets or exceeds ANSI specifications and
was darn cheap: $30. It includes a 3/8" drive pear-head ratchet,
both 3-inch and 6-inch extender bars, 1/4" adapter, SAE
and Metric 6-point sockets from 4 to 19 mm, and other
stuff. It's swell. The ratchet has a quick-release and
the set comes with a lifetime warranty. Made in China of
quality materials. Stanley sells good tools.

Also swung by Sears to pick up the 1/2" 150 foot-pound
Craftsman torque wrench that regularly sells for $80
but is on sale until Saturday for $60. I hope the
Craftsman was worth it, because AutoZone and/or O'Reilly
sell a 10-to-150 foot-pounder for $25 to $30. The Craftsman
goes no lower than 20 foot-pounds, so the cheaper AutoZone
wrench actually has a wider range.

I wonder if I should have bought the $70 Husky from
Home Depot that goes up to 250 foot-pounds, or the
$130 Harbor Freight torque wrench that is digital, described at
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=95841

Anyway, the Craftsman is made in the U.S; the others in Taiwan.

Peeked under the chassis today, and spotted the jack points
Ray was referring to. The front-end jack point is not covered
by the protective plastic cover or a panel as someone else was
worried about.

The rear-end jack point is at least 3 feet inwards from the rear
bumper.

I think I'll lift from Ray's 2 jack points using a floor jack (all
of which seem to raise in an arc), but place the 4 jack stands
underneath the four double notches along the car's side rails.
Do you think that's a workable, acceptable idea, Ray? I'm guessing
the jack stands won't bend the notch seams since the stands do no
arc-like raising, just supporting.

"Built_Well" > wrote in message
anews.com...
>
> larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>
>> [Walmart]...replaced their own Popular Mechanics brand with Stanley...
> ========
>
> Thanks for mentioning that Walmart sells Stanley tools.
>
> Picked up a 60-piece Stanley ratchet and socket set
> at Walmart today, since I needed a 10 millimeter socket
> for the Camry's air filter housing.
>
> The socket set meets or exceeds ANSI specifications and
> was darn cheap: $30. It includes a 3/8" drive pear-head ratchet,
> both 3-inch and 6-inch extender bars, 1/4" adapter, SAE
> and Metric 6-point sockets from 4 to 19 mm, and other
> stuff. It's swell. The ratchet has a quick-release and
> the set comes with a lifetime warranty. Made in China of
> quality materials. Stanley sells good tools.

I disagree on the quality of Stanley tools, at least for automotive use.
I've pretty much broken, chipped, or bent any Stanley tool I've used, and
they do not feel as comfortable in my hand as my Snap-On tools. The
lifetime warranty is not so convenient when the 10 mm wrench has rounded off
the bolt you were trying to loosen.

>
> Also swung by Sears to pick up the 1/2" 150 foot-pound
> Craftsman torque wrench that regularly sells for $80
> but is on sale until Saturday for $60. I hope the
> Craftsman was worth it, because AutoZone and/or O'Reilly
> sell a 10-to-150 foot-pounder for $25 to $30. The Craftsman
> goes no lower than 20 foot-pounds, so the cheaper AutoZone
> wrench actually has a wider range.
>
> I wonder if I should have bought the $70 Husky from
> Home Depot that goes up to 250 foot-pounds, or the
> $130 Harbor Freight torque wrench that is digital, described at
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=95841
>
> Anyway, the Craftsman is made in the U.S; the others in Taiwan.
>
> Peeked under the chassis today, and spotted the jack points
> Ray was referring to. The front-end jack point is not covered
> by the protective plastic cover or a panel as someone else was
> worried about.
>
> The rear-end jack point is at least 3 feet inwards from the rear
> bumper.
>
> I think I'll lift from Ray's 2 jack points using a floor jack (all
> of which seem to raise in an arc), but place the 4 jack stands
> underneath the four double notches along the car's side rails.
> Do you think that's a workable, acceptable idea, Ray? I'm guessing
> the jack stands won't bend the notch seams since the stands do no
> arc-like raising, just supporting.

I prefer not to use the a painted surface like the pinch welds for jack
stands because they can scratch the paint, leading to rust, but the pinch
welds should be safe, and they do allow the most room for working under the
car. Most shop lifts have a rubber pad on the lift arm so that arm does not
scratch the pinch weld.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Built_Well wrote:
but place the 4 jack stands
> underneath the four double notches along the car's side rails.
> Do you think that's a workable, acceptable idea, Ray? I'm guessing
> the jack stands won't bend the notch seams since the stands do no
> arc-like raising, just supporting.

I have honestly never seen anyone crazy enough to put a vehicle up on 4
jack stands to change tires.

When I jack up something to work on it, I try for one corner, use a jack
stand 'and' put the tire on it's side under the vehicle's edge as a last
catcher if it all comes down.

If I have to lift two wheels, I use double jack stands on each side, the
tires and sometimes large blocks of wood under it.

The floor jacks lift in an arc, this leans jack stands and they 'do' up
and collapse.

As soon as you put a wrench to something in the air, some major torque
gets applied to those stands also. If they are already leaning because
you used a floor jack, they 'can' fail.

If they are already leaning because of floor jacks, the feet on them
will dig into pavement, especially on a hot day and over it goes.

If I 'must' use a sheet metal notch as a jack point, I use a 2x4 on the
saddle of the jack or stand to help spread out the pressure.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...

Mike Romain wrote:
> Built_Well wrote:
> but place the 4 jack stands
>
>> underneath the four double notches along the car's side rails.
>> Do you think that's a workable, acceptable idea, Ray? I'm guessing
>> the jack stands won't bend the notch seams since the stands do no
>> arc-like raising, just supporting.
>
>
> I have honestly never seen anyone crazy enough to put a vehicle up on 4
> jack stands to change tires.

<raising hand and looking a little indignant at being called 'crazy'...>
OK, not JUST for changing tires, but there have been a number of times
I've put a car up on 4 stands (the cast-and-welded stands, NEVER the
stamped sheet-metal stands with a "pin" to hold them up- those things
are death traps). Rear stands go either under the axle tubes if I can
work with the suspension compressed or under the front spring perch
rails if I have to let the suspension hang (rear-drive) or jacking
points (front-drive). Front jackstands always go under the K-frame or
under the jacking points (on some front-drive cars).

>
> When I jack up something to work on it, I try for one corner, use a jack
> stand 'and' put the tire on it's side under the vehicle's edge as a last
> catcher if it all comes down.

Here we REALLY differ. I don't consider a vehicle lifted at one corner
to be particularly stable, especially if the work requires me to get
anywhere under it. I prefer to lift both front wheels or both rear
wheels so that the car is level (side-to-side) and the jackstands are
square against the chassis or suspension with no side pressures at all.
>

>
> The floor jacks lift in an arc, this leans jack stands and they 'do' up
> and collapse.

If your jackstands are tilting, then your floor jack isn't working right
or you're working on a soft surface like asphalt and you should find a
concrete floor to work on. Yes, floor jacks lift in an arc, but that's
why they have hard steel wheels. As the vehicle lifts, the jack should
roll forward so that the vehicle goes straight up. The vehicle should be
chocked firmly in place so that it CANNOT move.


I agree with putting something like a removed tire under there as a
last-ditch backup.

Steve wrote:
>
> If your jackstands are tilting, then your floor jack isn't working right
> or you're working on a soft surface like asphalt and you should find a
> concrete floor to work on.

I never have concrete to work on it seems. Always either dirt or
driveway asphalt which is way softer than street stuff.

Yes, floor jacks lift in an arc, but that's
> why they have hard steel wheels. As the vehicle lifts, the jack should
> roll forward so that the vehicle goes straight up. The vehicle should be
> chocked firmly in place so that it CANNOT move.
>

Sure the jack 'hopefully' rolls, but if it doesn't and the wheels dig
into the asphalt or dirt, the jack stand on the other side will tilt or
try to tilt which can easily collapse a cheap jack stand.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...

Mike Romain wrote:

> If I 'must' use a sheet metal notch as a jack point,
> I use a 2x4 on the saddle of the jack or stand to help
> spread out the pressure.
========

I don't know if this would be a safe idea. I think I saw
on the box of some Craftsman jack stands a warning not to
place anything between the stands and the car.

And here's a quote from the '06 Camry manual relating to
the jack itself, though not the stands:

"When raising the vehicle, do not place any objects
on top of or underneath the jack."

The same probably applies to the stands.

Mike Romain wrote:
> I have honestly never seen anyone crazy enough to put
> a vehicle up on 4 jack stands to change tires.

I have to disagree here. I'm not a mechanic, but I think
it's customary to use 4 jack stands to rotate tires. What
else would you use to support the car if you don't have an
expensive automotive lift? It's expressly forbidden to
just use a jack alone. One must always use a jack in
conjunction with jack stands.

If you've never seen anyone "put a vehicle up on 4 jack
stands to change tires," I must assume you've either never
rotated your own tires or you use an expensive automotive
lift to do it. Which is it?

Built_Well wrote:
> larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>
> > [Walmart]...replaced their own Popular Mechanics brand with Stanley...
> ========
>
> Larry, thanks for mentioning that Walmart sells Stanley tools.
>
> Picked up a 60-piece Stanley ratchet and socket set
> at Walmart today, since I needed a 10 millimeter socket
> for the Camry's air filter housing.
>
> The socket set meets or exceeds ANSI specifications and
> was darn cheap: $30. It includes a 3/8" drive pear-head ratchet,
> both 3-inch and 6-inch extender bars, 1/4" adapter, SAE
> and Metric 6-point sockets from 4 to 19 mm, and other
> stuff. It's swell. The ratchet has a quick-release and
> the set comes with a lifetime warranty. Made in China of
> quality materials. Stanley sells good tools.
>
> Also swung by Sears to pick up the 1/2" 150 foot-pound
> Craftsman torque wrench that regularly sells for $80
> but is on sale until Saturday for $60. I hope the
> Craftsman was worth it, because AutoZone and/or O'Reilly
> sell a 10-to-150 foot-pounder for $25 to $30. The Craftsman
> goes no lower than 20 foot-pounds, so the cheaper AutoZone
> wrench actually has a wider range.
>
> I wonder if I should have bought the $70 Husky from
> Home Depot that goes up to 250 foot-pounds, or the
> $130 Harbor Freight torque wrench that is digital, described at
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=95841
>
> Anyway, the Craftsman is made in the U.S; the others in Taiwan.
>
> Peeked under the chassis today, and spotted the jack points
> Ray was referring to. The front-end jack point is not covered
> by the protective plastic cover or a panel as someone else was
> worried about.
>
> The rear-end jack point is at least 3 feet inwards from the rear
> bumper.
>
> I think I'll lift from Ray's 2 jack points using a floor jack (all
> of which seem to raise in an arc), but place the 4 jack stands
> underneath the four double notches along the car's side rails.
> Do you think that's a workable, acceptable idea, Ray? I'm guessing
> the jack stands won't bend the notch seams since the stands do no
> arc-like raising, just supporting.
========

I really hope I made the right decision to buy the Craftsman
torque wrench at Sears. I went to the Sears.Com web site and
read some reviews of the MicroTork there, and lots of people
are complaining about how easily it breaks.

Here's the link to some of the reviews of the Craftsman torque
wrench:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...or que+wrench

15 of the 17 reviews are very, very bad. The thing breaks easily.
It only comes with a 1-year warranty.

Built_Well wrote:
> Mike Romain wrote:
>
>> If I 'must' use a sheet metal notch as a jack point,
>> I use a 2x4 on the saddle of the jack or stand to help
>> spread out the pressure.
> ========
>
> I don't know if this would be a safe idea. I think I saw
> on the box of some Craftsman jack stands a warning not to
> place anything between the stands and the car.
>
> And here's a quote from the '06 Camry manual relating to
> the jack itself, though not the stands:
>
> "When raising the vehicle, do not place any objects
> on top of or underneath the jack."
>
> The same probably applies to the stands.
>

Note I said 'if I must'. I 'really really' try not to use rocker panels
for lifting or bracing.

Maybe not the safest, but you will see what I mean soon enough likely.

I think spreading out the weight is safer than the jack going through
the rocker panel.

If you live someplace where they don't use salt on the roads, you might
not run into this, but up here in the rust belt, the bottom of the
rocker panels go soft first usually and that bottom edge seam is always
ratty.

The factory jack went right on up through the last two Volvo's I owned
pressed seam jacking points on the rockers and neither of these vehicles
was showing any rust.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...

Built_Well wrote:
> Mike Romain wrote:
>> I have honestly never seen anyone crazy enough to put
>> a vehicle up on 4 jack stands to change tires.
>
> I have to disagree here. I'm not a mechanic, but I think
> it's customary to use 4 jack stands to rotate tires. What
> else would you use to support the car if you don't have an
> expensive automotive lift? It's expressly forbidden to
> just use a jack alone. One must always use a jack in
> conjunction with jack stands.
>
> If you've never seen anyone "put a vehicle up on 4 jack
> stands to change tires," I must assume you've either never
> rotated your own tires or you use an expensive automotive
> lift to do it. Which is it?
>

Neither. I try to always keep two tires at least down, so do most
people I know it would appear...

Most folks change one or at the most two tires at once, never 4. It is
far too dangerous getting all 4 corners up in the air when you don't
'have' to, 'especially' if you are using a stock rocker panel jack.

When using a floor jack to do a tire, you only need to jack the tire 2"
off the ground, then get a stand under there. You don't need to jack
the side of the car way up +/- 18" like the rocker panel jacks do.

My last few vehicles recommend front to rear rotations, so only one side
goes up with a stand under the rear axle. (more room usually at the rear
for a stand)

If they are getting crossed, then the stand goes under the rear axle and
the other side front corner goes up to swap those. Then the opposite is
done.

It is much safer still having two tires down on the ground, things get
really touchy when all four are hanging....

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...