Gosh, What an Impatient Jerk I Am!!

Scott en Aztlán wrote:
>
>Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote:
>
>>>Not really, since the assumption behind it is that "slow" and
>>>"safe" are synonymous, an assertion I know to be false.
>>
>>"The accident involvement rates on streets and highways in urban
>>areas was highest for the slowest 5 percent of traffic
>>
>> -Institute of Transportation Engineers
>
>You see? Sloth Kills.

Factual but incomplete. Sloth and speed *both* kill. Driving at
the median speed (half the cars are going faster than you are,
half the cars are going slower than you are) is the safest speed.

DTJ wrote:

>Actually I would bet Scott encounters far more than that. He sees so
>many, his measure of ****tard has become more restrictive. As an
>example, I typically see 80% ****tards, 15% morons, and 5% quality
>drivers.

I don't believe you. I think that if uyou take an honest look around
you will find that 90% of the drivers are staying in one lane and
keeping up with the flow of traffic. I actually did a count on a
long trip, and I got 90%.

DTJ wrote:

>Actually I would bet Scott encounters far more than that. He sees so
>many, his measure of ****tard has become more restrictive. As an
>example, I typically see 80% ****tards, 15% morons, and 5% quality
>drivers.

I don't believe you. I think that if uyou take an honest look around
you will find that 90% of the drivers are staying in one lane and
keeping up with the flow of traffic. I actually did a count on a
long trip, and I got 90%.

Guy Macon wrote:

> Arif Khokar wrote:

>>Actually, any speed ranging from the 15th to 85th percentile speeds is
>>relatively safe. Some studies show that the 85th percentile speed is
>>safer while other studies show them to be about the same safetywise.
>>Keep in mind that the difference between the two is around 10 to 14 mph.

> That's interesting. The studies that I have seen put the safest
> right on the median, but, as you have correctly pointed out, the
> curve is close th flat in the middle region. I have never seen a
> study that shows that the 85th percentile speed is safer. Do you
> have a reference for that?

Mainly the Solomon and Cirillo studies from the '60s. The FHWA speed
synthesis study
(http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/tfhrc/safety...peed/speed.htm) contains a
number of graphs that show crash incidence verses deviation from the
average or median speed of traffic from a number of studies. The Fildes
study appears to be an "outlier" mainly because it uses self reported
data rather than actual data like the rest of them.

Guy Macon wrote:

> Arif Khokar wrote:

>>Actually, any speed ranging from the 15th to 85th percentile speeds is
>>relatively safe. Some studies show that the 85th percentile speed is
>>safer while other studies show them to be about the same safetywise.
>>Keep in mind that the difference between the two is around 10 to 14 mph.

> That's interesting. The studies that I have seen put the safest
> right on the median, but, as you have correctly pointed out, the
> curve is close th flat in the middle region. I have never seen a
> study that shows that the 85th percentile speed is safer. Do you
> have a reference for that?

Mainly the Solomon and Cirillo studies from the '60s. The FHWA speed
synthesis study
(http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/tfhrc/safety...peed/speed.htm) contains a
number of graphs that show crash incidence verses deviation from the
average or median speed of traffic from a number of studies. The Fildes
study appears to be an "outlier" mainly because it uses self reported
data rather than actual data like the rest of them.

Scott en Aztlán wrote:

>You agree that it's true, but before you read my posts, had you ever
>heard the phrase "Sloth Kills?" For reasons unfathomable to me, the
>emphasis by the Safety Nazis has always been on "Speed Kills" -
>leading some to believe that Sloth is Safe. I'm merely trying to
>counter this common misconception.

I agree that such a counter is certainly called for. I also think
that minimum speed laws should be enforced just as strictly as the
maximum speed laws are. As long as we agree that both sloth and
speed kill, I have no problem with your emphasis.

Scott en Aztlán wrote:

>You agree that it's true, but before you read my posts, had you ever
>heard the phrase "Sloth Kills?" For reasons unfathomable to me, the
>emphasis by the Safety Nazis has always been on "Speed Kills" -
>leading some to believe that Sloth is Safe. I'm merely trying to
>counter this common misconception.

I agree that such a counter is certainly called for. I also think
that minimum speed laws should be enforced just as strictly as the
maximum speed laws are. As long as we agree that both sloth and
speed kill, I have no problem with your emphasis.

Arif Khokar wrote:
>
>Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote:
>
>> Factual but incomplete. Sloth and speed *both* kill. Driving at
>> the median speed (half the cars are going faster than you are,
>> half the cars are going slower than you are) is the safest speed.
>
>Actually, any speed ranging from the 15th to 85th percentile speeds is
>relatively safe. Some studies show that the 85th percentile speed is
>safer while other studies show them to be about the same safetywise.
>Keep in mind that the difference between the two is around 10 to 14 mph.

That's interesting. The studies that I have seen put the safest
right on the median, but, as you have correctly pointed out, the
curve is close th flat in the middle region. I have never seen a
study that shows that the 85th percentile speed is safer. Do you
have a reference for that?

>It could be argued that speeds above the 85th percentile are actually
>safer as compared to speeds below the 15th percentile. This is because
>any hazards presenting themselves will come from the front for the
>faster driver while they mainly come from behind for the slower driver.

Lots of arguments could be made. It could be argued that speeds above
the 85th percentile are less safe than speeds below the 15th percentile,
because many hazards are stationary, and the slower driver has more time
to react and a far shorter stopping distance. I tend to disreguard all
such arguments (they can be endless) and to only pay attention to the
actual statistics.

Arif Khokar wrote:
>
>Guy Macon <http://www.guymacon.com/> wrote:
>
>> Factual but incomplete. Sloth and speed *both* kill. Driving at
>> the median speed (half the cars are going faster than you are,
>> half the cars are going slower than you are) is the safest speed.
>
>Actually, any speed ranging from the 15th to 85th percentile speeds is
>relatively safe. Some studies show that the 85th percentile speed is
>safer while other studies show them to be about the same safetywise.
>Keep in mind that the difference between the two is around 10 to 14 mph.

That's interesting. The studies that I have seen put the safest
right on the median, but, as you have correctly pointed out, the
curve is close th flat in the middle region. I have never seen a
study that shows that the 85th percentile speed is safer. Do you
have a reference for that?

>It could be argued that speeds above the 85th percentile are actually
>safer as compared to speeds below the 15th percentile. This is because
>any hazards presenting themselves will come from the front for the
>faster driver while they mainly come from behind for the slower driver.

Lots of arguments could be made. It could be argued that speeds above
the 85th percentile are less safe than speeds below the 15th percentile,
because many hazards are stationary, and the slower driver has more time
to react and a far shorter stopping distance. I tend to disreguard all
such arguments (they can be endless) and to only pay attention to the
actual statistics.