When 500HP Isn't Enough. Enter GT500 "R"

Seeing that the new GT500 is packing 500 horsepower, I find the
following comment by Carrol Shelby very intriguing.

----
Both Dodge and Chevrolet unveiled concepts for their own latter-day
muscle cars at the Detroit auto show last January -- the Challenger and
Camaro, respectively. Both are widely expected to make it into
production and compete with the Mustang in the years to come.

"If General Motors thinks they're going to come and out-horsepower us
with the Camaro like they did last time, they're going to be greatly
surprised," Shelby said.
----

Okay, but here's what we know now:

Mustang GT500
500HP 5.4L
Weight - 3,950

Dodge Challenger
340HP 5.7L or 425HP 6.1L Hemis
Expected weight of the new Challenger is said to be much like the
original -- 3,900-4,000. (Note: The LX sedans all weigh about
4,100-4,200.)

Chevy Camaro
Potential firepower -- 400HP 6L LS2 or 505HP 7L LS7
GM's internal weight target for the new Camaro is 3,500-3,600 (Note:
Its platform is rumoured to be a modified version of the
Australian-developed Zeta.)

On paper, it looks like GM will have the upperhand with new Camaro's
[expected] lighter curb weight and comparable horsepower. So , if this
isn't an idle threat how would Ford stay on top of the horsepower war
knowing that the new Mustang and its platform is very unlikely to get
any major revisions. To me it would make logical sense to cut some fat
from the GT500.

Here'd be my plan for a GT500-R:

1) Lightweight (revised pattern) wheels = 15-20 pounds
2) Lightweight seats + all manual/no power controls = 50 pounds
3) Rear-seat delete - 40 pounds
4) Driving lights deleted and replaced with front brake cooling
ducts/revised front fascia = 5 pounds
5) Replace current 8 & 10 -speaker stereos with 4-speaker system = 15
pounds
6) Replace 6-disc in-dash changer with stereo IPOD connection = 10
pounds
7) Remove power mirrors & locks = 10 pounds

The weights are, obviously, only guesstimations but removing an easy
150 pounds seems very doable.

8) A/C delete option
9) Power steering delete option

Here's another 150 pounds for the hardcore racing fan.

10) The Wild Card -- dropping in a normally-aspirated 500HP version of
the upcoming all-aluminum 6.2L Hurricane engine.

How much would this one be worth? It would mean no supercharger,
intercooler/hoses, plus an aluminum block. What's your guess... 150
pounds...?

So there you have it -- my 500HP/3,500 pound counter to the
[potentially] upcoming LS7 Camaro.

Patrick

wrote:
> Seeing that the new GT500 is packing 500 horsepower, I find the
> following comment by Carrol Shelby very intriguing.
>
> ----
> Both Dodge and Chevrolet unveiled concepts for their own latter-day
> muscle cars at the Detroit auto show last January -- the Challenger and
> Camaro, respectively. Both are widely expected to make it into
> production and compete with the Mustang in the years to come.
>
> "If General Motors thinks they're going to come and out-horsepower us
> with the Camaro like they did last time, they're going to be greatly
> surprised," Shelby said.
> ----
>
> Okay, but here's what we know now:
>
> Mustang GT500
> 500HP 5.4L
> Weight - 3,950
>
> Dodge Challenger
> 340HP 5.7L or 425HP 6.1L Hemis
> Expected weight of the new Challenger is said to be much like the
> original -- 3,900-4,000. (Note: The LX sedans all weigh about
> 4,100-4,200.)
>
> Chevy Camaro
> Potential firepower -- 400HP 6L LS2 or 505HP 7L LS7
> GM's internal weight target for the new Camaro is 3,500-3,600 (Note:
> Its platform is rumoured to be a modified version of the
> Australian-developed Zeta.)
>
> On paper, it looks like GM will have the upperhand with new Camaro's
> [expected] lighter curb weight and comparable horsepower. So , if this
> isn't an idle threat how would Ford stay on top of the horsepower war
> knowing that the new Mustang and its platform is very unlikely to get
> any major revisions. To me it would make logical sense to cut some fat
> from the GT500.
>
> Here'd be my plan for a GT500-R:
>
> 1) Lightweight (revised pattern) wheels = 15-20 pounds
> 2) Lightweight seats + all manual/no power controls = 50 pounds
> 3) Rear-seat delete - 40 pounds
> 4) Driving lights deleted and replaced with front brake cooling
> ducts/revised front fascia = 5 pounds
> 5) Replace current 8 & 10 -speaker stereos with 4-speaker system = 15
> pounds
> 6) Replace 6-disc in-dash changer with stereo IPOD connection = 10
> pounds
> 7) Remove power mirrors & locks = 10 pounds
>
> The weights are, obviously, only guesstimations but removing an easy
> 150 pounds seems very doable.
>
> 8) A/C delete option
> 9) Power steering delete option
>
> Here's another 150 pounds for the hardcore racing fan.
>
> 10) The Wild Card -- dropping in a normally-aspirated 500HP version of
> the upcoming all-aluminum 6.2L Hurricane engine.
>
> How much would this one be worth? It would mean no supercharger,
> intercooler/hoses, plus an aluminum block. What's your guess... 150
> pounds...?
>
> So there you have it -- my 500HP/3,500 pound counter to the
> [potentially] upcoming LS7 Camaro.

Any new Camaro from Chevy has one big constraint that Ford doesn't have
to worry about - the Corvette. Chevy can't put a Camaro in the same
performance league as the Vette. IMO, Ford will win the raw horsepower
and performance war, if they choose to. Personally, I think Chevy is
going to have a difficult time reintroducing the Camaro. It can only
have a certain level of performance and it will have been out of the
market for a long time (7-8 years) by the time it hits the showroom
floor. Plus it doesn't have near the following of the Mustang which is
really what keeps the Mustang alive.

I think it will go the way of the GTO unless they make a V-6 version
that sells very well. Chevy has a tendency to sacrifice functionality
for performance which doesn't increase overall sales volumes. It is the
functionality of the V-6 Mustang that makes the V-8 versions viable.
Maybe GM has learned something since killing the Camaro but I haven't
seen much evidence of this in their current product line.

I'd like to see lower weights through more advanced body materials.

--
Scotter
96 GT Vert
-
> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Seeing that the new GT500 is packing 500 horsepower, I find the
> following comment by Carrol Shelby very intriguing.
>
> ----
> Both Dodge and Chevrolet unveiled concepts for their own latter-day
> muscle cars at the Detroit auto show last January -- the Challenger and
> Camaro, respectively. Both are widely expected to make it into
> production and compete with the Mustang in the years to come.
>
> "If General Motors thinks they're going to come and out-horsepower us
> with the Camaro like they did last time, they're going to be greatly
> surprised," Shelby said.
> ----
>
> Okay, but here's what we know now:
>
> Mustang GT500
> 500HP 5.4L
> Weight - 3,950
>
> Dodge Challenger
> 340HP 5.7L or 425HP 6.1L Hemis
> Expected weight of the new Challenger is said to be much like the
> original -- 3,900-4,000. (Note: The LX sedans all weigh about
> 4,100-4,200.)
>
> Chevy Camaro
> Potential firepower -- 400HP 6L LS2 or 505HP 7L LS7
> GM's internal weight target for the new Camaro is 3,500-3,600 (Note:
> Its platform is rumoured to be a modified version of the
> Australian-developed Zeta.)
>
> On paper, it looks like GM will have the upperhand with new Camaro's
> [expected] lighter curb weight and comparable horsepower. So , if this
> isn't an idle threat how would Ford stay on top of the horsepower war
> knowing that the new Mustang and its platform is very unlikely to get
> any major revisions. To me it would make logical sense to cut some fat
> from the GT500.
>
> Here'd be my plan for a GT500-R:
>
> 1) Lightweight (revised pattern) wheels = 15-20 pounds
> 2) Lightweight seats + all manual/no power controls = 50 pounds
> 3) Rear-seat delete - 40 pounds
> 4) Driving lights deleted and replaced with front brake cooling
> ducts/revised front fascia = 5 pounds
> 5) Replace current 8 & 10 -speaker stereos with 4-speaker system = 15
> pounds
> 6) Replace 6-disc in-dash changer with stereo IPOD connection = 10
> pounds
> 7) Remove power mirrors & locks = 10 pounds
>
> The weights are, obviously, only guesstimations but removing an easy
> 150 pounds seems very doable.
>
> 8) A/C delete option
> 9) Power steering delete option
>
> Here's another 150 pounds for the hardcore racing fan.
>
> 10) The Wild Card -- dropping in a normally-aspirated 500HP version of
> the upcoming all-aluminum 6.2L Hurricane engine.
>
> How much would this one be worth? It would mean no supercharger,
> intercooler/hoses, plus an aluminum block. What's your guess... 150
> pounds...?
>
> So there you have it -- my 500HP/3,500 pound counter to the
> [potentially] upcoming LS7 Camaro.
>
> Patrick
>

"Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
:

> wrote:
>> Seeing that the new GT500 is packing 500 horsepower, I find the
>> following comment by Carrol Shelby very intriguing.
>>
>> ----
>> Both Dodge and Chevrolet unveiled concepts for their own latter-day
>> muscle cars at the Detroit auto show last January -- the Challenger
and
>> Camaro, respectively. Both are widely expected to make it into
>> production and compete with the Mustang in the years to come.
>>
>> "If General Motors thinks they're going to come and out-horsepower us
>> with the Camaro like they did last time, they're going to be greatly
>> surprised," Shelby said.
>> ----
>>
>> Okay, but here's what we know now:
>>
>> Mustang GT500
>> 500HP 5.4L
>> Weight - 3,950
>>
>> Dodge Challenger
>> 340HP 5.7L or 425HP 6.1L Hemis
>> Expected weight of the new Challenger is said to be much like the
>> original -- 3,900-4,000. (Note: The LX sedans all weigh about
>> 4,100-4,200.)
>>
>> Chevy Camaro
>> Potential firepower -- 400HP 6L LS2 or 505HP 7L LS7
>> GM's internal weight target for the new Camaro is 3,500-3,600 (Note:
>> Its platform is rumoured to be a modified version of the
>> Australian-developed Zeta.)
>>
>> On paper, it looks like GM will have the upperhand with new Camaro's
>> [expected] lighter curb weight and comparable horsepower. So , if
this
>> isn't an idle threat how would Ford stay on top of the horsepower war
>> knowing that the new Mustang and its platform is very unlikely to get
>> any major revisions. To me it would make logical sense to cut some
fat
>> from the GT500.
>>
>> Here'd be my plan for a GT500-R:
>>
>> 1) Lightweight (revised pattern) wheels = 15-20 pounds
>> 2) Lightweight seats + all manual/no power controls = 50 pounds
>> 3) Rear-seat delete - 40 pounds
>> 4) Driving lights deleted and replaced with front brake cooling
>> ducts/revised front fascia = 5 pounds
>> 5) Replace current 8 & 10 -speaker stereos with 4-speaker system = 15
>> pounds
>> 6) Replace 6-disc in-dash changer with stereo IPOD connection = 10
>> pounds
>> 7) Remove power mirrors & locks = 10 pounds
>>
>> The weights are, obviously, only guesstimations but removing an easy
>> 150 pounds seems very doable.
>>
>> 8) A/C delete option
>> 9) Power steering delete option
>>
>> Here's another 150 pounds for the hardcore racing fan.
>>
>> 10) The Wild Card -- dropping in a normally-aspirated 500HP version
of
>> the upcoming all-aluminum 6.2L Hurricane engine.
>>
>> How much would this one be worth? It would mean no supercharger,
>> intercooler/hoses, plus an aluminum block. What's your guess... 150
>> pounds...?
>>
>> So there you have it -- my 500HP/3,500 pound counter to the
>> [potentially] upcoming LS7 Camaro.
>
> Any new Camaro from Chevy has one big constraint that Ford doesn't
have
> to worry about - the Corvette. Chevy can't put a Camaro in the same
> performance league as the Vette. IMO, Ford will win the raw
horsepower
> and performance war, if they choose to. Personally, I think Chevy is
> going to have a difficult time reintroducing the Camaro. It can only
> have a certain level of performance and it will have been out of the
> market for a long time (7-8 years) by the time it hits the showroom
> floor. Plus it doesn't have near the following of the Mustang which
is
> really what keeps the Mustang alive.
>
> I think it will go the way of the GTO unless they make a V-6 version
> that sells very well. Chevy has a tendency to sacrifice functionality
> for performance which doesn't increase overall sales volumes. It is
the
> functionality of the V-6 Mustang that makes the V-8 versions viable.
> Maybe GM has learned something since killing the Camaro but I haven't
> seen much evidence of this in their current product line.

Bingo. Right on the money as usual, Michael.

Camaro = Corvette * .85 (give or take)

Joe
Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC

Joe wrote:
> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
> :
>
>> wrote:
>>> Seeing that the new GT500 is packing 500 horsepower, I find the
>>> following comment by Carrol Shelby very intriguing.
>>>
>>> ----
>>> Both Dodge and Chevrolet unveiled concepts for their own latter-day
>>> muscle cars at the Detroit auto show last January -- the Challenger
> and
>>> Camaro, respectively. Both are widely expected to make it into
>>> production and compete with the Mustang in the years to come.
>>>
>>> "If General Motors thinks they're going to come and out-horsepower us
>>> with the Camaro like they did last time, they're going to be greatly
>>> surprised," Shelby said.
>>> ----
>>>
>>> Okay, but here's what we know now:
>>>
>>> Mustang GT500
>>> 500HP 5.4L
>>> Weight - 3,950
>>>
>>> Dodge Challenger
>>> 340HP 5.7L or 425HP 6.1L Hemis
>>> Expected weight of the new Challenger is said to be much like the
>>> original -- 3,900-4,000. (Note: The LX sedans all weigh about
>>> 4,100-4,200.)
>>>
>>> Chevy Camaro
>>> Potential firepower -- 400HP 6L LS2 or 505HP 7L LS7
>>> GM's internal weight target for the new Camaro is 3,500-3,600 (Note:
>>> Its platform is rumoured to be a modified version of the
>>> Australian-developed Zeta.)
>>>
>>> On paper, it looks like GM will have the upperhand with new Camaro's
>>> [expected] lighter curb weight and comparable horsepower. So , if
> this
>>> isn't an idle threat how would Ford stay on top of the horsepower war
>>> knowing that the new Mustang and its platform is very unlikely to get
>>> any major revisions. To me it would make logical sense to cut some
> fat
>>> from the GT500.
>>>
>>> Here'd be my plan for a GT500-R:
>>>
>>> 1) Lightweight (revised pattern) wheels = 15-20 pounds
>>> 2) Lightweight seats + all manual/no power controls = 50 pounds
>>> 3) Rear-seat delete - 40 pounds
>>> 4) Driving lights deleted and replaced with front brake cooling
>>> ducts/revised front fascia = 5 pounds
>>> 5) Replace current 8 & 10 -speaker stereos with 4-speaker system = 15
>>> pounds
>>> 6) Replace 6-disc in-dash changer with stereo IPOD connection = 10
>>> pounds
>>> 7) Remove power mirrors & locks = 10 pounds
>>>
>>> The weights are, obviously, only guesstimations but removing an easy
>>> 150 pounds seems very doable.
>>>
>>> 8) A/C delete option
>>> 9) Power steering delete option
>>>
>>> Here's another 150 pounds for the hardcore racing fan.
>>>
>>> 10) The Wild Card -- dropping in a normally-aspirated 500HP version
> of
>>> the upcoming all-aluminum 6.2L Hurricane engine.
>>>
>>> How much would this one be worth? It would mean no supercharger,
>>> intercooler/hoses, plus an aluminum block. What's your guess... 150
>>> pounds...?
>>>
>>> So there you have it -- my 500HP/3,500 pound counter to the
>>> [potentially] upcoming LS7 Camaro.
>> Any new Camaro from Chevy has one big constraint that Ford doesn't
> have
>> to worry about - the Corvette. Chevy can't put a Camaro in the same
>> performance league as the Vette. IMO, Ford will win the raw
> horsepower
>> and performance war, if they choose to. Personally, I think Chevy is
>> going to have a difficult time reintroducing the Camaro. It can only
>> have a certain level of performance and it will have been out of the
>> market for a long time (7-8 years) by the time it hits the showroom
>> floor. Plus it doesn't have near the following of the Mustang which
> is
>> really what keeps the Mustang alive.
>>
>> I think it will go the way of the GTO unless they make a V-6 version
>> that sells very well. Chevy has a tendency to sacrifice functionality
>> for performance which doesn't increase overall sales volumes. It is
> the
>> functionality of the V-6 Mustang that makes the V-8 versions viable.
>> Maybe GM has learned something since killing the Camaro but I haven't
>> seen much evidence of this in their current product line.
>
> Bingo. Right on the money as usual, Michael.
>
> Camaro = Corvette * .85 (give or take)

That equation is just about right. In fact, it may need to be a .75 or
..80 factor to keep the Vette marketing department happy. Personally, I
think the days where Chevy's sales volume can justify two high
performance vehicles have gone by the wayside. The gear head in me
would love to see a successful Camaro come to market but GM still hasn't
turned the corner in resolving its overall management problems. They
still think they can churn out one boring model after the next and the
American public will buy them without question. I guess they haven't
felt Toyota regularly taking another bite out of their ass year after
year. If GM lets it go on much longer and they will need to have
assholes installed on their elbows so they can take a crap.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Seeing that the new GT500 is packing 500 horsepower, I find the
> following comment by Carrol Shelby very intriguing.
>
> ----
> Both Dodge and Chevrolet unveiled concepts for their own latter-day
> muscle cars at the Detroit auto show last January -- the Challenger and
> Camaro, respectively. Both are widely expected to make it into
> production and compete with the Mustang in the years to come.
>
> "If General Motors thinks they're going to come and out-horsepower us
> with the Camaro like they did last time, they're going to be greatly
> surprised," Shelby said.
> ----
>
> Okay, but here's what we know now:
>
> Mustang GT500
> 500HP 5.4L
> Weight - 3,950
>
> Dodge Challenger
> 340HP 5.7L or 425HP 6.1L Hemis
> Expected weight of the new Challenger is said to be much like the
> original -- 3,900-4,000. (Note: The LX sedans all weigh about
> 4,100-4,200.)
>
> Chevy Camaro
> Potential firepower -- 400HP 6L LS2 or 505HP 7L LS7
> GM's internal weight target for the new Camaro is 3,500-3,600 (Note:
> Its platform is rumoured to be a modified version of the
> Australian-developed Zeta.)
>
> On paper, it looks like GM will have the upperhand with new Camaro's
> [expected] lighter curb weight and comparable horsepower. So , if this
> isn't an idle threat how would Ford stay on top of the horsepower war
> knowing that the new Mustang and its platform is very unlikely to get
> any major revisions. To me it would make logical sense to cut some fat
> from the GT500.
>
> Here'd be my plan for a GT500-R:
>
> 1) Lightweight (revised pattern) wheels = 15-20 pounds
> 2) Lightweight seats + all manual/no power controls = 50 pounds
> 3) Rear-seat delete - 40 pounds
> 4) Driving lights deleted and replaced with front brake cooling
> ducts/revised front fascia = 5 pounds
> 5) Replace current 8 & 10 -speaker stereos with 4-speaker system = 15
> pounds
> 6) Replace 6-disc in-dash changer with stereo IPOD connection = 10
> pounds
> 7) Remove power mirrors & locks = 10 pounds
>
> The weights are, obviously, only guesstimations but removing an easy
> 150 pounds seems very doable.
>
> 8) A/C delete option
> 9) Power steering delete option
>
> Here's another 150 pounds for the hardcore racing fan.
>
> 10) The Wild Card -- dropping in a normally-aspirated 500HP version of
> the upcoming all-aluminum 6.2L Hurricane engine.
>
> How much would this one be worth? It would mean no supercharger,
> intercooler/hoses, plus an aluminum block. What's your guess... 150
> pounds...?
>
> So there you have it -- my 500HP/3,500 pound counter to the
> [potentially] upcoming LS7 Camaro.
>
> Patrick

I would like to see carbon fiber parts such as hood, trunk, maybe fenders
and an aluminum block especially with the anniversary of the King of the
Road coming up. The car is pretty well balanced so keep in mind what you
shave from one area should be shaved in another too. So make a runflat
system like the Vette and remove the spare tire to offset some of the loss
in the front.

Nick

I hate to say it, but considering the wide variety of people driving these
days, safety will be a controlling factor.
Dave
"Scotter" > wrote in message
...
> I'd like to see lower weights through more advanced body materials.
>
> --
> Scotter
> 96 GT Vert
> -
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Seeing that the new GT500 is packing 500 horsepower, I find the
>> following comment by Carrol Shelby very intriguing.
>>
>> ----
>> Both Dodge and Chevrolet unveiled concepts for their own latter-day
>> muscle cars at the Detroit auto show last January -- the Challenger and
>> Camaro, respectively. Both are widely expected to make it into
>> production and compete with the Mustang in the years to come.
>>
>> "If General Motors thinks they're going to come and out-horsepower us
>> with the Camaro like they did last time, they're going to be greatly
>> surprised," Shelby said.
>> ----
>>
>> Okay, but here's what we know now:
>>
>> Mustang GT500
>> 500HP 5.4L
>> Weight - 3,950
>>
>> Dodge Challenger
>> 340HP 5.7L or 425HP 6.1L Hemis
>> Expected weight of the new Challenger is said to be much like the
>> original -- 3,900-4,000. (Note: The LX sedans all weigh about
>> 4,100-4,200.)
>>
>> Chevy Camaro
>> Potential firepower -- 400HP 6L LS2 or 505HP 7L LS7
>> GM's internal weight target for the new Camaro is 3,500-3,600 (Note:
>> Its platform is rumoured to be a modified version of the
>> Australian-developed Zeta.)
>>
>> On paper, it looks like GM will have the upperhand with new Camaro's
>> [expected] lighter curb weight and comparable horsepower. So , if this
>> isn't an idle threat how would Ford stay on top of the horsepower war
>> knowing that the new Mustang and its platform is very unlikely to get
>> any major revisions. To me it would make logical sense to cut some fat
>> from the GT500.
>>
>> Here'd be my plan for a GT500-R:
>>
>> 1) Lightweight (revised pattern) wheels = 15-20 pounds
>> 2) Lightweight seats + all manual/no power controls = 50 pounds
>> 3) Rear-seat delete - 40 pounds
>> 4) Driving lights deleted and replaced with front brake cooling
>> ducts/revised front fascia = 5 pounds
>> 5) Replace current 8 & 10 -speaker stereos with 4-speaker system = 15
>> pounds
>> 6) Replace 6-disc in-dash changer with stereo IPOD connection = 10
>> pounds
>> 7) Remove power mirrors & locks = 10 pounds
>>
>> The weights are, obviously, only guesstimations but removing an easy
>> 150 pounds seems very doable.
>>
>> 8) A/C delete option
>> 9) Power steering delete option
>>
>> Here's another 150 pounds for the hardcore racing fan.
>>
>> 10) The Wild Card -- dropping in a normally-aspirated 500HP version of
>> the upcoming all-aluminum 6.2L Hurricane engine.
>>
>> How much would this one be worth? It would mean no supercharger,
>> intercooler/hoses, plus an aluminum block. What's your guess... 150
>> pounds...?
>>
>> So there you have it -- my 500HP/3,500 pound counter to the
>> [potentially] upcoming LS7 Camaro.
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>
>

"Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
:

> Joe wrote:
>> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Seeing that the new GT500 is packing 500 horsepower, I find the
>>>> following comment by Carrol Shelby very intriguing.
>>>>
>>>> ----
>>>> Both Dodge and Chevrolet unveiled concepts for their own latter-day
>>>> muscle cars at the Detroit auto show last January -- the Challenger
>> and
>>>> Camaro, respectively. Both are widely expected to make it into
>>>> production and compete with the Mustang in the years to come.
>>>>
>>>> "If General Motors thinks they're going to come and out-horsepower
us
>>>> with the Camaro like they did last time, they're going to be
greatly
>>>> surprised," Shelby said.
>>>> ----
>>>>
>>>> Okay, but here's what we know now:
>>>>
>>>> Mustang GT500
>>>> 500HP 5.4L
>>>> Weight - 3,950
>>>>
>>>> Dodge Challenger
>>>> 340HP 5.7L or 425HP 6.1L Hemis
>>>> Expected weight of the new Challenger is said to be much like the
>>>> original -- 3,900-4,000. (Note: The LX sedans all weigh about
>>>> 4,100-4,200.)
>>>>
>>>> Chevy Camaro
>>>> Potential firepower -- 400HP 6L LS2 or 505HP 7L LS7
>>>> GM's internal weight target for the new Camaro is 3,500-3,600
(Note:
>>>> Its platform is rumoured to be a modified version of the
>>>> Australian-developed Zeta.)
>>>>
>>>> On paper, it looks like GM will have the upperhand with new
Camaro's
>>>> [expected] lighter curb weight and comparable horsepower. So , if
>> this
>>>> isn't an idle threat how would Ford stay on top of the horsepower
war
>>>> knowing that the new Mustang and its platform is very unlikely to
get
>>>> any major revisions. To me it would make logical sense to cut some
>> fat
>>>> from the GT500.
>>>>
>>>> Here'd be my plan for a GT500-R:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Lightweight (revised pattern) wheels = 15-20 pounds
>>>> 2) Lightweight seats + all manual/no power controls = 50 pounds
>>>> 3) Rear-seat delete - 40 pounds
>>>> 4) Driving lights deleted and replaced with front brake cooling
>>>> ducts/revised front fascia = 5 pounds
>>>> 5) Replace current 8 & 10 -speaker stereos with 4-speaker system =
15
>>>> pounds
>>>> 6) Replace 6-disc in-dash changer with stereo IPOD connection = 10
>>>> pounds
>>>> 7) Remove power mirrors & locks = 10 pounds
>>>>
>>>> The weights are, obviously, only guesstimations but removing an
easy
>>>> 150 pounds seems very doable.
>>>>
>>>> 8) A/C delete option
>>>> 9) Power steering delete option
>>>>
>>>> Here's another 150 pounds for the hardcore racing fan.
>>>>
>>>> 10) The Wild Card -- dropping in a normally-aspirated 500HP version
>> of
>>>> the upcoming all-aluminum 6.2L Hurricane engine.
>>>>
>>>> How much would this one be worth? It would mean no supercharger,
>>>> intercooler/hoses, plus an aluminum block. What's your guess...
150
>>>> pounds...?
>>>>
>>>> So there you have it -- my 500HP/3,500 pound counter to the
>>>> [potentially] upcoming LS7 Camaro.
>>> Any new Camaro from Chevy has one big constraint that Ford doesn't
>> have
>>> to worry about - the Corvette. Chevy can't put a Camaro in the same
>>> performance league as the Vette. IMO, Ford will win the raw
>> horsepower
>>> and performance war, if they choose to. Personally, I think Chevy
is
>>> going to have a difficult time reintroducing the Camaro. It can
only
>>> have a certain level of performance and it will have been out of the
>>> market for a long time (7-8 years) by the time it hits the showroom
>>> floor. Plus it doesn't have near the following of the Mustang which
>> is
>>> really what keeps the Mustang alive.
>>>
>>> I think it will go the way of the GTO unless they make a V-6 version
>>> that sells very well. Chevy has a tendency to sacrifice
functionality
>>> for performance which doesn't increase overall sales volumes. It is
>> the
>>> functionality of the V-6 Mustang that makes the V-8 versions viable.
>>> Maybe GM has learned something since killing the Camaro but I
haven't
>>> seen much evidence of this in their current product line.
>>
>> Bingo. Right on the money as usual, Michael.
>>
>> Camaro = Corvette * .85 (give or take)
>
> That equation is just about right. In fact, it may need to be a .75
or
> .80 factor to keep the Vette marketing department happy. Personally,
I
> think the days where Chevy's sales volume can justify two high
> performance vehicles have gone by the wayside. The gear head in me
> would love to see a successful Camaro come to market but GM still
hasn't
> turned the corner in resolving its overall management problems. They
> still think they can churn out one boring model after the next and the
> American public will buy them without question. I guess they haven't
> felt Toyota regularly taking another bite out of their ass year after
> year. If GM lets it go on much longer and they will need to have
> assholes installed on their elbows so they can take a crap.

LOL! Funny, but true.

IN CARROL SHELBY WE ALL SHOULD TRUST!! GOD I HATE CAMAROS!!!

Nicholas Anthony wrote:

> I would like to see carbon fiber parts such as hood, trunk, maybe fenders
> and an aluminum block especially with the anniversary of the King of the
> Road coming up.

Cool, yeah, but that composite stuff is expensive.

> The car is pretty well balanced so keep in mind what you shave from one area should be > shaved in another too.

The GT500 is very nose heavy. The supercharged iron block 5.4 added a
ton of weight up front and threw the front/rear balance off quite a bit
from the regular GT.

> So make a runflat system like the Vette and remove the spare tire to offset some of the
> loss in the front.

It currently has no spare; only a can of Run Flat.

Patrick