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Ball Joints and Stuff



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 24th 06, 01:11 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
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Default Ball Joints and Stuff

My TJ's got about 60+ K miles on it, many of them off road and it
looks, sounds, and feels like the ball joints are shot. When I replace
them what else should I replace? The tire rod ends are beat, so they
will be replaced, but what about hub bearings, u-joints, or anything
inside the differential?

And are there any brand name recommendations? I don't want to spend
my time doing this and then have to do it again because I skimped on
parts. A few extra bucks on top quality parts isn't going to break
the bank and might save me some time in the future.

Tia
Dean

Ads
  #2  
Old June 24th 06, 02:14 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
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Default Ball Joints and Stuff

Hi Dean,
Some pictures of a Real Jeep to assist:
http://members.citynet.net/trailjeep/balljoint.html
They sell Wannabee's hubs at:
http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/axle/yjwarnaxle/
God Bless America, Bill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Dean wrote:
>
> My TJ's got about 60+ K miles on it, many of them off road and it
> looks, sounds, and feels like the ball joints are shot. When I replace
> them what else should I replace? The tire rod ends are beat, so they
> will be replaced, but what about hub bearings, u-joints, or anything
> inside the differential?
>
> And are there any brand name recommendations? I don't want to spend
> my time doing this and then have to do it again because I skimped on
> parts. A few extra bucks on top quality parts isn't going to break
> the bank and might save me some time in the future.
>
> Tia
> Dean

  #3  
Old June 24th 06, 03:19 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
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Posts: n/a
Default Ball Joints and Stuff

Well, it's actually the other way around on joints for price. The
cheapest ones you can find are the best. They come with grease nipples
so you can pump the water and mud out of them after a run.

The expensive, 'heavy duty', lifetime warranty', no grease joints are
total garbage!!!

I too thought I would be 'smart' and go with the 'best' or most
expensive ones. I have been regretting it ever since. They started
blowing out from water contamination after only 8 months!

I have had to replace 'every' one. I now only have one or maybe two
left in her and one of those is toast, a bottom ball joint.

I hear from others here that the sealed joints do work...., if you live
in the desert and it never sees water or snow...

Once you have the ball joints apart, I would recommend you examine the
axle u-joints carefully. It is a pile of work to get to them, so while
it's open. Same for the diff seals. I would be looking into the axle
tubes with a light for evidence of oil. The tube should be dry because
the seals are inboard.

You have no serviceable hub bearings, the hub is another one of those
'sealed units'.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Dean wrote:
>
> My TJ's got about 60+ K miles on it, many of them off road and it
> looks, sounds, and feels like the ball joints are shot. When I replace
> them what else should I replace? The tire rod ends are beat, so they
> will be replaced, but what about hub bearings, u-joints, or anything
> inside the differential?
>
> And are there any brand name recommendations? I don't want to spend
> my time doing this and then have to do it again because I skimped on
> parts. A few extra bucks on top quality parts isn't going to break
> the bank and might save me some time in the future.
>
> Tia
> Dean

  #4  
Old June 24th 06, 06:54 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
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Default Ball Joints and Stuff

Mike Romain wrote:
> Well, it's actually the other way around on joints for price. The
> cheapest ones you can find are the best. They come with grease nipples
> so you can pump the water and mud out of them after a run.
>
> The expensive, 'heavy duty', lifetime warranty', no grease joints are
> total garbage!!!


I can understand what you are saying, but after taking a quick look at
the lower ball joint I don't see where you could get a grease nipple in
there. It seems like there isn't enough room. (well maybe)

> You have no serviceable hub bearings, the hub is another one of those
> 'sealed units'.


How does one tell if the hub bearings are good or bad?

Dean

  #5  
Old June 24th 06, 07:10 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
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Default Ball Joints and Stuff

Dean wrote:
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > Well, it's actually the other way around on joints for price. The
> > cheapest ones you can find are the best. They come with grease nipples
> > so you can pump the water and mud out of them after a run.
> >
> > The expensive, 'heavy duty', lifetime warranty', no grease joints are
> > total garbage!!!

>
> I can understand what you are saying, but after taking a quick look at
> the lower ball joint I don't see where you could get a grease nipple in
> there. It seems like there isn't enough room. (well maybe)


Umm, the nipple goes bottom dead center on the bottom one and my new top
one has a bottom dead center one with a 90 deg nipple or zirk pointing
out sideways. It also came with a plug to use if the u-joint is too
close. You move the u-joint by spinning the wheel in your case so you
have room and open it up to grease.

One of my front axle u-joints also has zirks in the end caps with plugs
to use.

>
> > You have no serviceable hub bearings, the hub is another one of those
> > 'sealed units'.

>
> How does one tell if the hub bearings are good or bad?


I jack up the wheel and just shake the tire. If a bearing is bad, you
will have a tire wobble when you do this. Another telltale is if the
first time you hit the brakes, the pedal is low, then the pedal comes up
normal on the second pump.

If the bearing is bad, it will push the brake caliper piston back in
from the rotor wobble.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
  #6  
Old June 24th 06, 11:44 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
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Posts: n/a
Default Ball Joints and Stuff

About the bottom ball joints you mentioned there doesnt look like there's
room for a fitting... I bought my balljoints from Napa and the bottoms came
with the zerk fittings and also with what I can only explaint as a
bolt/cap... at first I put the zerks in but the ujoints wouldnt rotate
because they hit the fittings. I greased it then removed the zerk fitting
and screwed in the cap. I dont know if unscrewing the cap and screwing back
in the zerk fitting repeatedly over time is gonna be good but that's how I
grease mine.

Troy

>I can understand what you are saying, but after taking a quick look at
>the lower ball joint I don't see where you could get a grease nipple in
>there. It seems like there isn't enough room. (well maybe)



  #7  
Old June 25th 06, 12:25 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
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Default Ball Joints and Stuff

The plugs work perfectly. I have then in one axle u-joint too, the
other has a standard central zerk

I own a CJ7 and a Cherokee and the only thing below my bottom u-joints
zerk fittings is the ground or pavement.

What the 'heck' are you guys driving???? LOL!

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Troy wrote:
>
> About the bottom ball joints you mentioned there doesnt look like there's
> room for a fitting... I bought my balljoints from Napa and the bottoms came
> with the zerk fittings and also with what I can only explaint as a
> bolt/cap... at first I put the zerks in but the ujoints wouldnt rotate
> because they hit the fittings. I greased it then removed the zerk fitting
> and screwed in the cap. I dont know if unscrewing the cap and screwing back
> in the zerk fitting repeatedly over time is gonna be good but that's how I
> grease mine.
>
> Troy
>
> >I can understand what you are saying, but after taking a quick look at
> >the lower ball joint I don't see where you could get a grease nipple in
> >there. It seems like there isn't enough room. (well maybe)

  #8  
Old June 26th 06, 05:34 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
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Posts: n/a
Default Ball Joints and Stuff

Thanks for the replies. Today I decided to get started, but before I
started removing stuff I decided to get a helper to wiggle the tires
and steering wheel so I could confirm that the ball joints are bad.
Try as we might we couldn't get any side-to-side motion from the ball
joints. Using a pry bar we were able to get maybe 1/32 up and down
play.

Wiggling the steering wheel created a clicking noise that I traced to
the pitman shaft moving side to side in the steering box. There is
about 1/32 - 1/16 of movement back and forth on the shaft.

I'm running a Rubicon Express Long Arm lift, and the lift, shocks,
and tires are all about 1,000 miles old. The front tires are wearing
into a scalloped pattern on the outer side. The wear pattern is on the
backside of the tire lugs when you look at the top of the tire.

Is the up and down play in the ball joints bad enough to replace them?
And could the sloppy pitman shaft be the cause of the scalloped wear on
the tires? Is the pitman shaft slop even a problem worth fixing?

Thanks
Dean

(I'm half tempted to replace everything on the general principal that
those tires were so EX$PEN$IVE they are going to have to last a
loooooooonnnnnngggggg time <lol>)

Mike Romain wrote:
> The plugs work perfectly. I have then in one axle u-joint too, the
> other has a standard central zerk
>
> I own a CJ7 and a Cherokee and the only thing below my bottom u-joints
> zerk fittings is the ground or pavement.
>
> What the 'heck' are you guys driving???? LOL!
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>
> Troy wrote:
> >
> > About the bottom ball joints you mentioned there doesnt look like there's
> > room for a fitting... I bought my balljoints from Napa and the bottoms came
> > with the zerk fittings and also with what I can only explaint as a
> > bolt/cap... at first I put the zerks in but the ujoints wouldnt rotate
> > because they hit the fittings. I greased it then removed the zerk fitting
> > and screwed in the cap. I dont know if unscrewing the cap and screwing back
> > in the zerk fitting repeatedly over time is gonna be good but that's how I
> > grease mine.
> >
> > Troy
> >
> > >I can understand what you are saying, but after taking a quick look at
> > >the lower ball joint I don't see where you could get a grease nipple in
> > >there. It seems like there isn't enough room. (well maybe)


  #9  
Old June 26th 06, 06:31 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
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Posts: n/a
Default Ball Joints and Stuff

On my TJ I have 33x12.50's on 15x10 rims, and they're kinda boxy when viewed
from the front. I don't know what size/shape tires you have, but when I was
told my ball joints needed replacing I took it home and parked it in the
driveway, with the tires pointed straight. I then got a few feet back and
looked at each side from the front and saw that indeed on the left side the
tire was leaning just a tad. I tried to pry them up with the bar like the
guy at the tire shop but he was about 50 lbs heavier than me, so I didn't
make it move that much either. I didn't have any tire wear however cuz mine
were tweaked outta shape from an accident that pushed me around and slammed
me into a big curb.

You said the lift and all is only 1000 miles old, did you get an alignment
after? I'm sure someone was gonna ask you that sooner or later. When I
lifted mine I took it in and it didn't need alignment they said but some
people's tj's do need one I read.

Hope this helps a little
Troy

"Dean" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Thanks for the replies. Today I decided to get started, but before I
> started removing stuff I decided to get a helper to wiggle the tires
> and steering wheel so I could confirm that the ball joints are bad.
> Try as we might we couldn't get any side-to-side motion from the ball
> joints. Using a pry bar we were able to get maybe 1/32 up and down
> play.
>
> Wiggling the steering wheel created a clicking noise that I traced to
> the pitman shaft moving side to side in the steering box. There is
> about 1/32 - 1/16 of movement back and forth on the shaft.
>
> I'm running a Rubicon Express Long Arm lift, and the lift, shocks,
> and tires are all about 1,000 miles old. The front tires are wearing
> into a scalloped pattern on the outer side. The wear pattern is on the
> backside of the tire lugs when you look at the top of the tire.
>
> Is the up and down play in the ball joints bad enough to replace them?
> And could the sloppy pitman shaft be the cause of the scalloped wear on
> the tires? Is the pitman shaft slop even a problem worth fixing?
>
> Thanks
> Dean
>
> (I'm half tempted to replace everything on the general principal that
> those tires were so EX$PEN$IVE they are going to have to last a
> loooooooonnnnnngggggg time <lol>)
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
>> The plugs work perfectly. I have then in one axle u-joint too, the
>> other has a standard central zerk
>>
>> I own a CJ7 and a Cherokee and the only thing below my bottom u-joints
>> zerk fittings is the ground or pavement.
>>
>> What the 'heck' are you guys driving???? LOL!
>>
>> Mike
>> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>> Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
>> Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
>> (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
>>
>> Troy wrote:
>> >
>> > About the bottom ball joints you mentioned there doesnt look like
>> > there's
>> > room for a fitting... I bought my balljoints from Napa and the bottoms
>> > came
>> > with the zerk fittings and also with what I can only explaint as a
>> > bolt/cap... at first I put the zerks in but the ujoints wouldnt rotate
>> > because they hit the fittings. I greased it then removed the zerk
>> > fitting
>> > and screwed in the cap. I dont know if unscrewing the cap and screwing
>> > back
>> > in the zerk fitting repeatedly over time is gonna be good but that's
>> > how I
>> > grease mine.
>> >
>> > Troy
>> >
>> > >I can understand what you are saying, but after taking a quick look at
>> > >the lower ball joint I don't see where you could get a grease nipple
>> > >in
>> > >there. It seems like there isn't enough room. (well maybe)

>



  #10  
Old June 26th 06, 02:31 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
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Posts: n/a
Default Ball Joints and Stuff

I believe I have a fried ball joint because my tire scalloped like yours
and now my steering is jamming after finishing a turn And I can see that
the boot is missing from the suspected joint.

However, I still haven't been able to move the SOB with a bar.... I
think mine only moves side to side.

Only 'no' movement is acceptable. If you can get up and down movement,
I would suspect the 'upper' ball joint of being bad as well as the
lower.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

Dean wrote:
>
> Thanks for the replies. Today I decided to get started, but before I
> started removing stuff I decided to get a helper to wiggle the tires
> and steering wheel so I could confirm that the ball joints are bad.
> Try as we might we couldn't get any side-to-side motion from the ball
> joints. Using a pry bar we were able to get maybe 1/32 up and down
> play.
>
> Wiggling the steering wheel created a clicking noise that I traced to
> the pitman shaft moving side to side in the steering box. There is
> about 1/32 - 1/16 of movement back and forth on the shaft.
>
> I'm running a Rubicon Express Long Arm lift, and the lift, shocks,
> and tires are all about 1,000 miles old. The front tires are wearing
> into a scalloped pattern on the outer side. The wear pattern is on the
> backside of the tire lugs when you look at the top of the tire.
>
> Is the up and down play in the ball joints bad enough to replace them?
> And could the sloppy pitman shaft be the cause of the scalloped wear on
> the tires? Is the pitman shaft slop even a problem worth fixing?
>
> Thanks
> Dean
>
> (I'm half tempted to replace everything on the general principal that
> those tires were so EX$PEN$IVE they are going to have to last a
> loooooooonnnnnngggggg time <lol>)
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
> > The plugs work perfectly. I have then in one axle u-joint too, the
> > other has a standard central zerk
> >
> > I own a CJ7 and a Cherokee and the only thing below my bottom u-joints
> > zerk fittings is the ground or pavement.
> >
> > What the 'heck' are you guys driving???? LOL!
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
> > Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
> > (More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
> >
> > Troy wrote:
> > >
> > > About the bottom ball joints you mentioned there doesnt look like there's
> > > room for a fitting... I bought my balljoints from Napa and the bottoms came
> > > with the zerk fittings and also with what I can only explaint as a
> > > bolt/cap... at first I put the zerks in but the ujoints wouldnt rotate
> > > because they hit the fittings. I greased it then removed the zerk fitting
> > > and screwed in the cap. I dont know if unscrewing the cap and screwing back
> > > in the zerk fitting repeatedly over time is gonna be good but that's how I
> > > grease mine.
> > >
> > > Troy
> > >
> > > >I can understand what you are saying, but after taking a quick look at
> > > >the lower ball joint I don't see where you could get a grease nipple in
> > > >there. It seems like there isn't enough room. (well maybe)

 




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