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#11
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Ethanol was a "Mistake" says Al Gore
On 11/24/2010 12:59 PM, Brent wrote:
> On 2010-11-24, > wrote: >> >> "Steve > wrote in message >> ... >>> >>> ATHENS, Greece -- Former Vice President Al Gore reportedly has had a >>> change of heart on ethanol, telling a conference on green energy in >>> Europe that he supported tax breaks for the alternative fuel to pander >>> to farmers in his home state of Tennessee and the first-in-the-nation >>> caucuses state of Iowa. >> >> Well, he has apparently become a little more honest than a lot of the >> politicians. > > No he's not. he's in for himself and there is no reason for him not to > throw the corn farmers under the bus now. He likely wants to start > looking more reasonable to protect his potentional billions in profits > from the carbon credits fraud. > > you got that dead right - and carbon credits are indeed a fraud. -- nomina rutrum rutrum |
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#12
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Ethanol was a "Mistake" says Al Gore
On 11/24/2010 11:50 AM, Steve W. wrote:
> > ATHENS, Greece -- Former Vice President Al Gore reportedly has had a > change of heart on ethanol, telling a conference on green energy in > Europe that he supported tax breaks for the alternative fuel to pander > to farmers in his home state of Tennessee and the first-in-the-nation > caucuses state of Iowa. > > Speaking at a green energy business conference in Athens sponsored by > Marfin Popular Bank, Gore said the lobbyists have wrongly kept alive the > program he once touted. > > "It is not a good policy to have these massive subsidies for > first-generation ethanol," Reuters quoted Gore saying of the policy that > is about to come up for congressional review. "First-generation ethanol > I think was a mistake. The energy conversion ratios are at best very small. > > "One of the reasons I made that mistake is that I paid particular > attention to the farmers in my home state of Tennessee, and I had a > certain fondness for the farmers in the state of Iowa because I was > about to run for president," the wire service reported Gore saying. > > Ethanol is made by extracting sugar from corn, an energy-intensive > process. The ethanol industry will consume about 41 percent of the corn > crop this year, or 15 percent of the global corn crop, according to > Goldman Sachs analysts. > > A food-versus-fuel debate erupted in 2008, as a result of record food > prices, in which the biofuel industry was criticized for helping stoke > food prices. stoke food prices indeed. with the agri-commodity industry, oil industries [and of course speculators], behind it every step of the way. > > Gore supported so-called second generation technologies which do not > compete with food, for example cellulosic technologies which use > chemicals or enzymes to extract sugar from fiber for example in wood, > waste or grass it's the only thing that makes any sense. but notice how little agri-commodity and speculator interest there is in a scheme where they have no market presence, and for which the raw materials are pretty much unlimited and thus non-profitable. bottom line - cellulosic ethanol will quietly die a death. the burning of food, with all the fuel, fertilizer, machinery, tax subsidy and speculation potential that it entails, will continue to receive political backing. -- nomina rutrum rutrum |
#13
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Ethanol was a "Mistake" says Al Gore
On 11/24/2010 01:23 PM, Tegger wrote:
> > wrote in > : > >> On Nov 24, 3:35�pm, > wrote: > >>> >>> Alcohol can be a great fuel for engines set up for it. �But this was >>> pokum hokum from the beginning. >> >> I think the key phrase is this: "The energy conversion ratios are at >> best very small." That right there is why ethanol subsidies are bad >> policy. If that were NOT the case, then they would make sense. >> > > > > If that were NOT the case, you wouldn't need subsidies in the first place; > we'd have been burning ethanol since the '20s. > indeed. -- nomina rutrum rutrum |
#14
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Ethanol was a "Mistake" says Al Gore
I reckon Brazil is doing quite well with their vehicles which run on
alcohol. cuhulin |
#15
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Ethanol was a "Mistake" says Al Gore
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#16
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Ethanol was a "Mistake" says Al Gore
"Steve W." > wrote in message ... > wrote: >> I reckon Brazil is doing quite well with their vehicles which run on >> alcohol. >> cuhulin >> > > YEP, and they also don't have the regulations and bureaucratic crap to > deal with.... Oh and consider that they have absolutely no where near > the numbers of vehicles running on it, they run a LOT of diesel vehicles > there. > > -- > Steve W. They got serious about this years ago because they didnt have enough petroleum in country. I was there a couple of years ago, and the taxi I took from Rio de Janeiro airport was a tri fuel model.. Could run on LNG, alcohol, or gasoline, IIRC. They no longer have a shortage of fuel, due to new petroleum finds but also due to being agressive about alternate fuel. |
#17
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Ethanol was a "Mistake" says Al Gore
On 2010-11-27, hls > wrote:
> > "Steve W." > wrote in message > ... >> wrote: >>> I reckon Brazil is doing quite well with their vehicles which run on >>> alcohol. >>> cuhulin >>> >> >> YEP, and they also don't have the regulations and bureaucratic crap to >> deal with.... Oh and consider that they have absolutely no where near >> the numbers of vehicles running on it, they run a LOT of diesel vehicles >> there. >> >> -- >> Steve W. > > They got serious about this years ago because they didnt have enough > petroleum in country. I was there a couple of years ago, and the > taxi I took from Rio de Janeiro airport was a tri fuel model.. Could > run on LNG, alcohol, or gasoline, IIRC. > > They no longer have a shortage of fuel, due to new petroleum finds > but also due to being agressive about alternate fuel. Brazil uses sugar cane to make ethanol and that is an entirely different ballgame than corn. Unlike corn, the sugar cane plant material itself fuels the conversion process. This alone makes the energy balance better and since sugar isn't a vital food product such as grains like corn using doesn't result in starving people (so long as it isn't displacing food crops of course). |
#18
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Ethanol was a "Mistake" says Al Gore
"Brent" > wrote in message ... > On 2010-11-27, hls > wrote: >> >> "Steve W." > wrote in message >> ... >>> wrote: >>>> I reckon Brazil is doing quite well with their vehicles which run on >>>> alcohol. >>>> cuhulin >>>> >>> >>> YEP, and they also don't have the regulations and bureaucratic crap to >>> deal with.... Oh and consider that they have absolutely no where near >>> the numbers of vehicles running on it, they run a LOT of diesel vehicles >>> there. >>> >>> -- >>> Steve W. >> >> They got serious about this years ago because they didnt have enough >> petroleum in country. I was there a couple of years ago, and the >> taxi I took from Rio de Janeiro airport was a tri fuel model.. Could >> run on LNG, alcohol, or gasoline, IIRC. >> >> They no longer have a shortage of fuel, due to new petroleum finds >> but also due to being agressive about alternate fuel. > > Brazil uses sugar cane to make ethanol and that is an entirely different > ballgame than corn. Unlike corn, the sugar cane plant material itself > fuels the conversion process. This alone makes the energy balance better > and since sugar isn't a vital food product such as grains like corn > using doesn't result in starving people (so long as it isn't displacing > food crops of course). > That is exactly right. .Sugar cane requires no fertilizer and produces a lot of fermentable carbohydrates. Mandioca is also a crop of interest. We dont want to displace the cachac,a of course. |
#19
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Ethanol was a "Mistake" says Al Gore
On the web,
The Diesel fuel trees in Brazil There is a guy in Hawaii who is growing some of those trees.Or so I once read about, a few years ago. cuhulin |
#20
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Ethanol was a "Mistake" says Al Gore
http://www.solarcompanies.com/upart/history-of-ethanol
In ancient times ethanol was known as an intoxicating drink. cuhulin |
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