94 Explorer cranks but no start, details inside Thanks for any help

On Apr 5, 10:14 am, J Adams > wrote:
> On 5 Apr 2007 10:14:09 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Apr 5, 8:10 am, J Adams > wrote:
>
> >> Swapped the relays and still no start
>
> >OK, down to basics. To start you need:
> >1. spark
> >2. proper fuel/air mixture
> >3. timing
> >4. compression
>
> >At least one of those is missing.
>
> >1. Have someone crank it while you check for a spark. Create an 1/8"
> >gap to ground somehow- old spark plug, nail, screwdriver, whatever.
> >However, you should have an error code if the ignition system is not
> >working.
>
> I checked for spark. Pulled plug, attached plug wire, laid on
> alternator, cranked. No spark. Used different plug wire, no spark.
>
> Also, for some reason the code reader doesn't seem to be working.
>
> I had disconnected the battery and reconnected. The alarm kept going
> off.

Well, if you have no spark I think you've narrowed it down
considerably. It ain't gonna start without a spark. The alarm going
off may have something to do with it, I think that also kills the
ignition. You need a working code reader now, it sounds like it's not
something simple and easy to diagnose, like a fuel pump problem.
-Paul

On 5 Apr 2007 11:40:30 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:

>On Apr 5, 10:14 am, J Adams > wrote:
>> On 5 Apr 2007 10:14:09 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Apr 5, 8:10 am, J Adams > wrote:
>>
>> >> Swapped the relays and still no start
>>
>> >OK, down to basics. To start you need:
>> >1. spark
>> >2. proper fuel/air mixture
>> >3. timing
>> >4. compression
>>
>> >At least one of those is missing.
>>
>> >1. Have someone crank it while you check for a spark. Create an 1/8"
>> >gap to ground somehow- old spark plug, nail, screwdriver, whatever.
>> >However, you should have an error code if the ignition system is not
>> >working.
>>
>> I checked for spark. Pulled plug, attached plug wire, laid on
>> alternator, cranked. No spark. Used different plug wire, no spark.
>>
>> Also, for some reason the code reader doesn't seem to be working.
>>
>> I had disconnected the battery and reconnected. The alarm kept going
>> off.
>
>Well, if you have no spark I think you've narrowed it down
>considerably. It ain't gonna start without a spark. The alarm going
>off may have something to do with it, I think that also kills the
>ignition. You need a working code reader now, it sounds like it's not
>something simple and easy to diagnose, like a fuel pump problem.
>-Paul

I don't have a problem with the alarm anymore, I think.

I just used the code reader a month ago and it worked fine, that how I
replaced the EG sensor.

I hooked a fuel pressure gauge, but that doesn't register (fuel did
come out of the valve). Does the engine need to be running?

..45 round thru the block :-)

Jim

On 5 Apr 2007 11:40:30 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:

>On Apr 5, 10:14 am, J Adams > wrote:
>> On 5 Apr 2007 10:14:09 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Apr 5, 8:10 am, J Adams > wrote:
>>
>> >> Swapped the relays and still no start
>>
>> >OK, down to basics. To start you need:
>> >1. spark
>> >2. proper fuel/air mixture
>> >3. timing
>> >4. compression
>>
>> >At least one of those is missing.
>>
>> >1. Have someone crank it while you check for a spark. Create an 1/8"
>> >gap to ground somehow- old spark plug, nail, screwdriver, whatever.
>> >However, you should have an error code if the ignition system is not
>> >working.
>>
>> I checked for spark. Pulled plug, attached plug wire, laid on
>> alternator, cranked. No spark. Used different plug wire, no spark.
>>
>> Also, for some reason the code reader doesn't seem to be working.
>>
>> I had disconnected the battery and reconnected. The alarm kept going
>> off.
>
>Well, if you have no spark I think you've narrowed it down
>considerably. It ain't gonna start without a spark. The alarm going
>off may have something to do with it, I think that also kills the
>ignition. You need a working code reader now, it sounds like it's not
>something simple and easy to diagnose, like a fuel pump problem.
>-Paul

Another thought!!! What would cause the reader to not work, no fuel
pressure, and no spark???

The link indicator on the reader comes on , but nothing else.

Jim

On 5 Apr 2007 11:40:30 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:

>On Apr 5, 10:14 am, J Adams > wrote:
>> On 5 Apr 2007 10:14:09 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Apr 5, 8:10 am, J Adams > wrote:
>>
>> >> Swapped the relays and still no start
>>
>> >OK, down to basics. To start you need:
>> >1. spark
>> >2. proper fuel/air mixture
>> >3. timing
>> >4. compression
>>
>> >At least one of those is missing.
>>
>> >1. Have someone crank it while you check for a spark. Create an 1/8"
>> >gap to ground somehow- old spark plug, nail, screwdriver, whatever.
>> >However, you should have an error code if the ignition system is not
>> >working.
>>
>> I checked for spark. Pulled plug, attached plug wire, laid on
>> alternator, cranked. No spark. Used different plug wire, no spark.
>>
>> Also, for some reason the code reader doesn't seem to be working.
>>
>> I had disconnected the battery and reconnected. The alarm kept going
>> off.
>
>Well, if you have no spark I think you've narrowed it down
>considerably. It ain't gonna start without a spark. The alarm going
>off may have something to do with it, I think that also kills the
>ignition. You need a working code reader now, it sounds like it's not
>something simple and easy to diagnose, like a fuel pump problem.
>-Paul

Apparently I was impatient with the code reader. I went back out and
it had cycled thru and came back 111-system pass.

Additionally, the fuel pressure gauge had a reading of 38PSI.

Guess that leaves just the spark issue!

Jim

On Apr 5, 11:59 am, J Adams > wrote:
> On 5 Apr 2007 11:40:30 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Apr 5, 10:14 am, J Adams > wrote:
> >> On 5 Apr 2007 10:14:09 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>
> >> >On Apr 5, 8:10 am, J Adams > wrote:
>
> >> >> Swapped the relays and still no start
>
> >> >OK, down to basics. To start you need:
> >> >1. spark
> >> >2. proper fuel/air mixture
> >> >3. timing
> >> >4. compression
>
> >> >At least one of those is missing.
>
> >> >1. Have someone crank it while you check for a spark. Create an 1/8"
> >> >gap to ground somehow- old spark plug, nail, screwdriver, whatever.
> >> >However, you should have an error code if the ignition system is not
> >> >working.
>
> >> I checked for spark. Pulled plug, attached plug wire, laid on
> >> alternator, cranked. No spark. Used different plug wire, no spark.
>
> >> Also, for some reason the code reader doesn't seem to be working.
>
> >> I had disconnected the battery and reconnected. The alarm kept going
> >> off.
>
> >Well, if you have no spark I think you've narrowed it down
> >considerably. It ain't gonna start without a spark. The alarm going
> >off may have something to do with it, I think that also kills the
> >ignition. You need a working code reader now, it sounds like it's not
> >something simple and easy to diagnose, like a fuel pump problem.
> >-Paul
>
> Apparently I was impatient with the code reader. I went back out and
> it had cycled thru and came back 111-system pass.
>
> Additionally, the fuel pressure gauge had a reading of 38PSI.
>
> Guess that leaves just the spark issue!
>

Hmmnnnn... well, a problem with the ignition ought to set a code.

Are you sure? This is EECIV, not OBDII. Doubt if those can self-diagnose
ignition.

"Paul G." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Hmmnnnn... well, a problem with the ignition ought to set a code.
>

On 5 Apr 2007 16:04:57 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:

>On Apr 5, 11:59 am, J Adams > wrote:
>> On 5 Apr 2007 11:40:30 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Apr 5, 10:14 am, J Adams > wrote:
>> >> On 5 Apr 2007 10:14:09 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>>
>> >> >On Apr 5, 8:10 am, J Adams > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> Swapped the relays and still no start
>>
>> >> >OK, down to basics. To start you need:
>> >> >1. spark
>> >> >2. proper fuel/air mixture
>> >> >3. timing
>> >> >4. compression
>>
>> >> >At least one of those is missing.
>>
>> >> >1. Have someone crank it while you check for a spark. Create an 1/8"
>> >> >gap to ground somehow- old spark plug, nail, screwdriver, whatever.
>> >> >However, you should have an error code if the ignition system is not
>> >> >working.
>>
>> >> I checked for spark. Pulled plug, attached plug wire, laid on
>> >> alternator, cranked. No spark. Used different plug wire, no spark.
>>
>> >> Also, for some reason the code reader doesn't seem to be working.
>>
>> >> I had disconnected the battery and reconnected. The alarm kept going
>> >> off.
>>
>> >Well, if you have no spark I think you've narrowed it down
>> >considerably. It ain't gonna start without a spark. The alarm going
>> >off may have something to do with it, I think that also kills the
>> >ignition. You need a working code reader now, it sounds like it's not
>> >something simple and easy to diagnose, like a fuel pump problem.
>> >-Paul
>>
>> Apparently I was impatient with the code reader. I went back out and
>> it had cycled thru and came back 111-system pass.
>>
>> Additionally, the fuel pressure gauge had a reading of 38PSI.
>>
>> Guess that leaves just the spark issue!
>>
>
>Hmmnnnn... well, a problem with the ignition ought to set a code.

Now it gets really bizarre. When I finally got the reader to cycle
thru the test I heard the fuel pump run and then the fuel pressure
gauge shot up to 40psi then dropped to 37/38psi and the pressure held.

Then I was able to start the engine. I then shut the engine and
disconnected the fuel pressure gauge.

I tried to start the engine again with no luck.

I reconnected the code reader and ran it thru the test cycle, at least
until I heard the fuel pump run. Then the engine started.

What the #$%& would cause the fuel pump run when the code reader is
connected, but not when I turn the ignition on.

By the way, I still had no spark, therefore I must not have had it set
up correctly and spark all along...I guess.

Any Thoughts?

Thanks

Jim

On Thu, 5 Apr 2007 16:40:46 -0700, "Happy Traveler"
> wrote:

>Are you sure? This is EECIV, not OBDII. Doubt if those can self-diagnose
>ignition.

OBD I Code Reader Ford 1983 - 1995

Inside the owners manual though it stated the computer system is
EEC-IV
>
>"Paul G." > wrote in message
roups.com...
>>
>> Hmmnnnn... well, a problem with the ignition ought to set a code.
>>
>

On Apr 5, 3:40 pm, "Happy Traveler" > wrote:
> Are you sure? This is EECIV, not OBDII. Doubt if those can self-diagnose
> ignition.
>

I'm not POSITIVE, but I'm pretty sure it will give a code for things
like the crank position sensor failing. This is a gross failure, not
something like one cylinder miss firing.

But I'm too lazy to look it up, and if anyone knows for sure I'll
defer to their greater knowledge.
-Paul

On Apr 5, 3:50 pm, J Adams > wrote:
> On 5 Apr 2007 16:04:57 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Apr 5, 11:59 am, J Adams > wrote:
> >> On 5 Apr 2007 11:40:30 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>
> >> >On Apr 5, 10:14 am, J Adams > wrote:
> >> >> On 5 Apr 2007 10:14:09 -0700, "Paul G." > wrote:
>
> >> >> >On Apr 5, 8:10 am, J Adams > wrote:
>
> >> >> >> Swapped the relays and still no start
>
> >> >> >OK, down to basics. To start you need:
> >> >> >1. spark
> >> >> >2. proper fuel/air mixture
> >> >> >3. timing
> >> >> >4. compression
>
> >> >> >At least one of those is missing.
>
> >> >> >1. Have someone crank it while you check for a spark. Create an 1/8"
> >> >> >gap to ground somehow- old spark plug, nail, screwdriver, whatever.
> >> >> >However, you should have an error code if the ignition system is not
> >> >> >working.
>
> >> >> I checked for spark. Pulled plug, attached plug wire, laid on
> >> >> alternator, cranked. No spark. Used different plug wire, no spark.
>
> >> >> Also, for some reason the code reader doesn't seem to be working.
>
> >> >> I had disconnected the battery and reconnected. The alarm kept going
> >> >> off.
>
> >> >Well, if you have no spark I think you've narrowed it down
> >> >considerably. It ain't gonna start without a spark. The alarm going
> >> >off may have something to do with it, I think that also kills the
> >> >ignition. You need a working code reader now, it sounds like it's not
> >> >something simple and easy to diagnose, like a fuel pump problem.
> >> >-Paul
>
> >> Apparently I was impatient with the code reader. I went back out and
> >> it had cycled thru and came back 111-system pass.
>
> >> Additionally, the fuel pressure gauge had a reading of 38PSI.
>
> >> Guess that leaves just the spark issue!
>
> >Hmmnnnn... well, a problem with the ignition ought to set a code.
>
> Now it gets really bizarre. When I finally got the reader to cycle
> thru the test I heard the fuel pump run and then the fuel pressure
> gauge shot up to 40psi then dropped to 37/38psi and the pressure held.
>
> Then I was able to start the engine. I then shut the engine and
> disconnected the fuel pressure gauge.
>
> I tried to start the engine again with no luck.
>
> I reconnected the code reader and ran it thru the test cycle, at least
> until I heard the fuel pump run. Then the engine started.
>
> What the #$%& would cause the fuel pump run when the code reader is
> connected, but not when I turn the ignition on.
>
> By the way, I still had no spark, therefore I must not have had it set
> up correctly and spark all along...I guess.
>
> Any Thoughts?
>

My code reader resets the fail codes after 3 cycles of reading them.
So if the computer is sensing a code that tells it to cut off the
spark or fuel, that is a possible explanation.

But this is getting beyond troubleshooting by text messages.
-Paul