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Red, Yellow, Green... And Now Blue!



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 7th 06, 01:32 PM posted to ca.driving,rec.autos.driving
Brent P[_1_]
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Posts: 8,639
Default Red, Yellow, Green... And Now Blue!

In article >, Scott en Aztlán wrote:
> http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...ck=1&cset=true


> "The intersections we've selected are those that are most congested
> during peak traffic times, which makes drivers more prone to violate
> the law," said Lt. Roy Jones. "We get a rising number of [such]
> complaints when school is back in session."


Translation: The intersection has various visibility and throughput
issues and the city has decided that it can profit from those problems.


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  #2  
Old September 7th 06, 08:03 PM posted to ca.driving,rec.autos.driving
brink
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Posts: 185
Default Red, Yellow, Green... And Now Blue!


"Brent P" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Scott en Aztlán
> wrote:
>> http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...ck=1&cset=true

>
>> "The intersections we've selected are those that are most congested
>> during peak traffic times, which makes drivers more prone to violate
>> the law," said Lt. Roy Jones. "We get a rising number of [such]
>> complaints when school is back in session."

>
> Translation: The intersection has various visibility and throughput
> issues and the city has decided that it can profit from those problems.


Welcome to LA, of COURSE we have "throughput issues." We call it "traffic"
around here.

I'm not sure why you have a problem with HUMAN enforcement of red light
runners. I'm all for it. There are few more dangerous on roads than
RLRers.

brink


  #3  
Old September 7th 06, 08:33 PM posted to ca.driving,rec.autos.driving
Brent P[_1_]
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Posts: 8,639
Default Red, Yellow, Green... And Now Blue!

In article >, brink wrote:
>
> "Brent P" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >, Scott en Aztlán
>> wrote:
>>> http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...ck=1&cset=true

>>
>>> "The intersections we've selected are those that are most congested
>>> during peak traffic times, which makes drivers more prone to violate
>>> the law," said Lt. Roy Jones. "We get a rising number of [such]
>>> complaints when school is back in session."

>>
>> Translation: The intersection has various visibility and throughput
>> issues and the city has decided that it can profit from those problems.

>
> Welcome to LA, of COURSE we have "throughput issues." We call it "traffic"
> around here.
>
> I'm not sure why you have a problem with HUMAN enforcement of red light
> runners. I'm all for it. There are few more dangerous on roads than
> RLRers.


I would like to see problems solved rather than profiting from them.

If I get hit by a red light runner at a flawed intersection, the fact a
cop saw it or a picture was taken of it, isn't going to make me any less
hurt. However fixing the flaw so I am never hit will.


  #4  
Old September 7th 06, 10:37 PM posted to ca.driving,rec.autos.driving
brink
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Posts: 185
Default Red, Yellow, Green... And Now Blue!


"Brent P" > wrote in message
. ..
> In article >, brink wrote:
>>
>> "Brent P" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In article >, Scott en Aztlán
>>> wrote:
>>>> http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...ck=1&cset=true
>>>
>>>> "The intersections we've selected are those that are most congested
>>>> during peak traffic times, which makes drivers more prone to violate
>>>> the law," said Lt. Roy Jones. "We get a rising number of [such]
>>>> complaints when school is back in session."
>>>
>>> Translation: The intersection has various visibility and throughput
>>> issues and the city has decided that it can profit from those problems.

>>
>> Welcome to LA, of COURSE we have "throughput issues." We call it
>> "traffic"
>> around here.
>>
>> I'm not sure why you have a problem with HUMAN enforcement of red light
>> runners. I'm all for it. There are few more dangerous on roads than
>> RLRers.

>
> I would like to see problems solved rather than profiting from them.
>
> If I get hit by a red light runner at a flawed intersection, the fact a
> cop saw it or a picture was taken of it, isn't going to make me any less
> hurt. However fixing the flaw so I am never hit will.


I think the "flaw" in intersections when it comes to most RLRers is that the
light is red and they don't want to stop. The only thing that would "solve"
that problem is to make it not red for that driver. Of course, that makes
it red for another driver, doesn't it?

I agree that it would be nice to redesign roads to minimize traffic delays
and minimize poor design, but you and I both know how expensive, unwieldy,
and difficult that is. It's an imperfect system. Doesn't justify RLRers at
all.

brink


  #5  
Old September 7th 06, 11:12 PM posted to ca.driving,rec.autos.driving
Brent P[_1_]
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Posts: 8,639
Default Red, Yellow, Green... And Now Blue!

In article >, brink wrote:

>> If I get hit by a red light runner at a flawed intersection, the fact a
>> cop saw it or a picture was taken of it, isn't going to make me any less
>> hurt. However fixing the flaw so I am never hit will.


> I think the "flaw" in intersections when it comes to most RLRers is that the
> light is red and they don't want to stop. The only thing that would "solve"
> that problem is to make it not red for that driver. Of course, that makes
> it red for another driver, doesn't it?


99.9% of the intentional red light running I see is congalining and it
doesn't take any special gizmos to enforce, that is if cops actually
cared about it and didn't do it themselves.

> I agree that it would be nice to redesign roads to minimize traffic delays
> and minimize poor design, but you and I both know how expensive, unwieldy,
> and difficult that is. It's an imperfect system. Doesn't justify RLRers at
> all.


Badly placed signal faces, bad light timing, etc and so forth can all
lead to red light running. The fact that the 'punish the *******s'
mentality doesn't recognize a defect doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

There is one signal light I nearly ran a red on in chicago because it's
in the middle of the bridge and the signal face is mounted so high that
it's above the top of the windshield on the approach. It's not visible
to me unless I scrunch down in my seat and look up. There was the one
where I got the ticket for not stopping completely for a right on red
where signal faces for multiple directions are visible. I saw a green
signal and proceeded with my usual care and I knew the cop was there on
top of it all.

But then again, it seems neither the cops nor the courts nor most of the
population understands or cares about proper engineering or the laws on
the books requiring it. IL law requires the MUTCD be followed, the court
doesn't care about government following the law.


  #6  
Old September 8th 06, 06:02 AM posted to rec.autos.driving
gpsman
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Posts: 3,233
Default Red, Yellow, Green... And Now Blue!

Brent P wrote: <brevity snip/groups adjusted>
> If I get hit by a red light runner at a flawed intersection, the fact a
> cop saw it or a picture was taken of it, isn't going to make me any less
> hurt. However fixing the flaw so I am never hit will.


Spurious conclusion. Fixing the "flaw" will not ensure you are never
hit. You know people can't drive for ****. Slow down and pay
attention, that's your best bet.
-----

- gpsman

  #7  
Old September 9th 06, 07:30 AM posted to ca.driving,rec.autos.driving
Ashton Crusher
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Posts: 324
Default Red, Yellow, Green... And Now Blue!

On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 07:32:59 -0500,
(Brent P) wrote:

>In article >, Scott en Aztlán wrote:
>>
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...ck=1&cset=true
>
>> "The intersections we've selected are those that are most congested
>> during peak traffic times, which makes drivers more prone to violate
>> the law," said Lt. Roy Jones. "We get a rising number of [such]
>> complaints when school is back in session."

>
>Translation: The intersection has various visibility and throughput
>issues and the city has decided that it can profit from those problems.
>


Which is very similar to the studies showing increasing the yellow
interval by a second or so greatly reduces red light accidents but
cities WON"T do it because it ruins their photo red light radar
justification.
  #8  
Old September 12th 06, 01:21 AM posted to ca.driving,rec.autos.driving
Timothy J. Lee
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Posts: 121
Default Red, Yellow, Green... And Now Blue!

In article >,
Brent P > wrote:
>99.9% of the intentional red light running I see is congalining and it
>doesn't take any special gizmos to enforce, that is if cops actually
>cared about it and didn't do it themselves.


The snitch lights do makes it easier for an officer on the destination
side of the intersection to tell if someone entered the intersection
after the light turned red. So an officer in such a position can catch
the red light runner relatively easily and safely, unlike an officer
behind the red light runner who has to then also run the red light
(increasing the risk of a crash, even if lights and sirens are on)
to catch the red light runner.

>Badly placed signal faces, bad light timing, etc and so forth can all
>lead to red light running. The fact that the 'punish the *******s'
>mentality doesn't recognize a defect doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


On the other hand, I have seen lots of red light running where none
of these defects exist. Just because some areas do have poorly designed
intersections or lights, or scandalous red light traps (whether or not
cameras are involved) does not mean that all red light running is due
to such problems.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
  #9  
Old September 12th 06, 01:25 AM posted to ca.driving,rec.autos.driving
Timothy J. Lee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default Red, Yellow, Green... And Now Blue!

In article >,
Ashton Crusher > wrote:
>Which is very similar to the studies showing increasing the yellow
>interval by a second or so greatly reduces red light accidents but
>cities WON"T do it because it ruins their photo red light radar
>justification.


Increasing the yellow time also takes away from the total amount of
green time in the intersection, resulting in more traffic congestion.
A traffic department that does not intend to set the yellow time
scandalously low still has the pressure to maximize the green time
at heavily used intersections to keep traffic flowing -- but it is
these heavily used intersections where commuters stuck in traffic may
be more prone to taking extra risks with the lights and running red
lights more often.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
  #10  
Old September 12th 06, 01:58 AM posted to ca.driving,rec.autos.driving
Brent P[_1_]
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Posts: 8,639
Default Red, Yellow, Green... And Now Blue!

In article >, Timothy J. Lee wrote:
> In article >,
> Brent P > wrote:
>>99.9% of the intentional red light running I see is congalining and it
>>doesn't take any special gizmos to enforce, that is if cops actually
>>cared about it and didn't do it themselves.


> The snitch lights do makes it easier for an officer on the destination
> side of the intersection to tell if someone entered the intersection
> after the light turned red. So an officer in such a position can catch
> the red light runner relatively easily and safely, unlike an officer
> behind the red light runner who has to then also run the red light
> (increasing the risk of a crash, even if lights and sirens are on)
> to catch the red light runner.


No matter what side of the intersection he sits on, someone might run
the red light such that he would have to go through the red to give
chase.

>>Badly placed signal faces, bad light timing, etc and so forth can all
>>lead to red light running. The fact that the 'punish the *******s'
>>mentality doesn't recognize a defect doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


> On the other hand, I have seen lots of red light running where none
> of these defects exist. Just because some areas do have poorly designed
> intersections or lights, or scandalous red light traps (whether or not
> cameras are involved) does not mean that all red light running is due
> to such problems.


I did not say it doesn't, however most of it is conga-lining and not
only do cops rarely ticket it, they do it themselves.


 




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