Extended oil changes and high mileage

I searched pretty extensively before starting this thread, but I'm
looking for real-life stories -- not opinions, arguments, theories,
etc. So at risk of starting another oil war -- ;o)

I run 24,000 miles a year of mostly interstate -- about the easiest
life a vehicle can live --, and I'm looking hard at Amsoil 0w30 and
their once-a-year oil change recommendations. No, I don't think I can
bring myself to go 24,000 miles on an oil change, but 12,000? Maybe.
I do plan to put 10 years, 240,000 miles, on my vehicle.

I'd be interested in hearing real-life stores from people who have
actually gone 10,000+ miles between changes with Amsoil. What kind of
mileage do you get on engines? What sort of problems have you had?
What type of driving do you do?

thx

"Frank" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I searched pretty extensively before starting this thread, but I'm
> looking for real-life stories -- not opinions, arguments, theories,
> etc. So at risk of starting another oil war -- ;o)
>
> I run 24,000 miles a year of mostly interstate -- about the easiest
> life a vehicle can live --, and I'm looking hard at Amsoil 0w30 and
> their once-a-year oil change recommendations. No, I don't think I can
> bring myself to go 24,000 miles on an oil change, but 12,000? Maybe.
> I do plan to put 10 years, 240,000 miles, on my vehicle.
>
> I'd be interested in hearing real-life stores from people who have
> actually gone 10,000+ miles between changes with Amsoil. What kind of
> mileage do you get on engines? What sort of problems have you had?
> What type of driving do you do?

I had a girlfriend a few years ago who changed Amsoil at 12,000 miles.
Her driving conditions varied from low speed in-town to long distance during
hot Texas conditions. The vehicle had rather high mileage, but burned no oil
between these long changes.

She never had the first problem.

I changed her oil for her once, though, and the oil came out of the
crankcase like
blackstrap molasses.

It worked for her.

Thanks for the response, HLS. Did she use the Amsoil filters as well?

this is a load of crap.....

The only reason to EVER use a synth oil is if your oil temp is going to
get into the 300 deg, range. ie racing HARD.

Ever notice that the fresh oil you put in is almost clear, but when you
take it out, it's like tar?

It turns black mostly because of the dirt caused by driving your car
and the contaminates created by blow by and combustion.

Amsoil and other synths have the same "sliperyness" as any other brand
of the smae grade.

The synths are better at handling higher heat.

The problem with the claims of extended oil changes is that most will
never own a car long enough to see the damage. Damage wont be seen or
felt for many more miles.

ALWAYS change your oil as the car maker recomends or best case, if its
dirty, change it.

rich wrote:

> this is a load of crap.....
>
> The only reason to EVER use a synth oil is if your oil temp is going to
> get into the 300 deg, range. ie racing HARD.
>
> Ever notice that the fresh oil you put in is almost clear, but when you
> take it out, it's like tar?

That's only because the dispersants and detergents are doing their job.
Color of oil is a lousy indicator of how suitable it is for continued
use.

> It turns black mostly because of the dirt caused by driving your car
> and the contaminates created by blow by and combustion.

Sure. However - diesel engines have used heavy duty diesel rated
motor oils for years. Think Shell Rotella T or Chevron Delo 400.
These oils use large amounts of "soot control" additives, and aren't
even necessarily synthetic, although many are using Type-II base oil
sold as "conventional" motor oil. These are also classified as
"extended drain" oils.

> Amsoil and other synths have the same "sliperyness" as any other brand
> of the smae grade.

Debatable. I don't care for Amsoil's marketing structure and wild
hyped up claims. However - there does appear to be some evidence
that good synthetics have higher thin film strength.

> The synths are better at handling higher heat.

Some are better at more than just that. Try cold start performance
and resistance to turbo "coking". I personally use Mobil 1 in my
WRX, since many of the so-called "full synthetics" use a petroleum-
derived base oil that can be called "synthetic" on a technicality.

> The problem with the claims of extended oil changes is that most will
> never own a car long enough to see the damage. Damage wont be seen or
> felt for many more miles.

I don't think extended drains are that big an issue. The key is to
use a proper oil that can stand this kind of use and a manufacturer
that has determined that its vehicles are suitable for it. Mercedes-
Benz, VW, and BMW now specify long drain intervals coupled with their
electronic change indicator systems. Mobil 1 0W-40 is specified as
meeting a host of European manufacturers' extended drain standards.

Also try talking to Europeans - many who are shocked that Americans
change their oil so often. OTOH - most Europeans don't keep their
cars as long as most Americans.

> ALWAYS change your oil as the car maker recomends or best case, if its
> dirty, change it.

I tried and extended drain sequence once. Didn't cause too much of
a problem. I wouldn't recommend it for a car under warranty.

Mobil is now selling their "Extended Performance" Mobil 1 series.
They recommend that it's good for 15K mile or once yearly oil changes
in any car. They couch that it might not be a good idea if the
car is under warranty. Perhaps auto makers will find the use of
extended drains as a reason to deny warranty claims.

"That's only because the dispersants and detergents are doing their
job.
Color of oil is a lousy indicator of how suitable it is for continued "
use.


Dispersants and detergents????

Where do you think this stuff is going?
It's sitting in your crank case.
Any "soap" or emulsifier, breaks down the big chunks by breaking the
chemical bonds that binds it together. It then surrounds the tiny bits
on a moleculear level. The "dirt" is still present in the oil.

Oil can oly hold so much dirt before it becomes saturated.

What about the oil filter?
It's a particulate filter. Even if it could scrub the oil, it too will
become quickly saturated and then become worthless.


Comparing a diesel engine and a gasoline engine is an apples to oranges
situation. Two different beasts.


Oil weight and viscosity.....
If you are using an oil designed for your aplication, you dont need a
synth oil. Why would anybody pay more for an oil because it has a lower
viscosity at -80 deg. If your dino oil maintains its characteristics at
even the coldest temp. where you drive, why does anyone need an oil
that will handle something colder?

Thats like, "..... but it goes to eleven!"

"Wouldnt recommend it for car under warranty"....... doesnt this say
something?

rich wrote:
> "That's only because the dispersants and detergents are doing their
> job.
> Color of oil is a lousy indicator of how suitable it is for continued
"
> use.
>
>
> Dispersants and detergents????

<http://www.lubrizol.com/PasCar/>

"Detergents: Similar to household detergents, except that they work
in oil not water. They neutralize impurities in the oil to prevent
deposit formation on engine parts. Available in different strengths,
they can either prevent further deposits from forming or clean up
deposits that have already formed.

Dispersants: These molecules bond to contaminants in the oil to keep
them from clumping together. Contaminants are then kept suspended in
the oil until they can be removed by a filter or oil change."

> Where do you think this stuff is going?
> It's sitting in your crank case.

Sure. However - dispersants keeps the small particles that won't
get trapped by a filter in suspension. As long as they're properly
suspended, they don't cause problems.

> Any "soap" or emulsifier, breaks down the big chunks by breaking the
> chemical bonds that binds it together. It then surrounds the tiny
> bits on a moleculear level. The "dirt" is still present in the oil.

The calcium compounds used as motor oil detergent additives aren't
anything like hand soap.

> Oil can oly hold so much dirt before it becomes saturated.

But color is a lousy way of knowing that. If you really want to
know, send an oil sample to Blackstone or any number of oil analysis
companies. Very dark oil can still be OK to use depending on what's
making it dark.

> What about the oil filter?
> It's a particulate filter. Even if it could scrub the oil, it too
> will become quickly saturated and then become worthless.

A lot of extended-drain recommendations are to change the oil filter
at regular manufacturers' oil change intervals. In my little
experiment, I did that three times and topped off the oil. There are
also special oil filters for some cars that are meant for extended
use.

> Comparing a diesel engine and a gasoline engine is an apples to
> oranges situation. Two different beasts.

>From what I understand, the soot control makes diesels more difficult.

> Oil weight and viscosity.....
> If you are using an oil designed for your aplication, you dont need
> a synth oil. Why would anybody pay more for an oil because it has a
> lower viscosity at -80 deg. If your dino oil maintains its
> characteristics at even the coldest temp. where you drive, why does
> anyone need an oil that will handle something colder?

Better oil pumping at all temps. Mobil used to tout that Mobil 1
10W-30 would pump several times faster than a conventional oil of the
same weight. I've heard from people living in Canada or Minnesota who
use Mobil 1 for better cold starting. Not to mention the only 0W-30
oils seem to be synthetics, and several automakers are recommending
this weight for especially cold climates.

> Thats like, "..... but it goes to eleven!"
>
> "Wouldnt recommend it for car under warranty"....... doesnt this say
> something?

I'm not doing this. However - the theory is sound. Europeans often
buy virtually the same engines as Americans and routinely use longer
manufacturers' recommended oil change periods. Mercedes-Benz says
that the use of a MB 229.5 spec motor oil with a special "fleece"
oil filter can allow their cars to go up to 30K km as determined by
their Flexible Service System electronics.

Here's a description of Mann's fleece oil filter cartridges.

<www.mann-hummel.com/company/upload/doc/HBAAEJwjOMP.pdf>

> rich wrote:
>
>> this is a load of crap.....
>>
>> The only reason to EVER use a synth oil is if your oil temp is going to
>> get into the 300 deg, range. ie racing HARD.

I don't think that synthetic oils are any sort of panacea, nor do I
refuse to use conventional oils (some of which now perform better than
synthetics of just a few years ago). But my understanding is that
synthetics oxidize more slowly at ALL temperatures than conventional
oils. There's nothing magic about 300 degrees, that's just the point
where there's a sharp knee in the curve of RATE of oxidation for
conventional oils. But oils oxidze (slowly) at room temperature, an
oxidze (still fairly slowly, but measurably) at 195 degrees, which can
lead to varnish formation over time. Synthetics protect against that
type of degradation better also.

Steve wrote:
> > rich wrote:
> >
> >> this is a load of crap.....
> >>
> >> The only reason to EVER use a synth oil is if your oil temp is
going to
> >> get into the 300 deg, range. ie racing HARD.
>
> I don't think that synthetic oils are any sort of panacea, nor do I
> refuse to use conventional oils (some of which now perform better
than
> synthetics of just a few years ago). But my understanding is that
> synthetics oxidize more slowly at ALL temperatures than conventional
> oils. There's nothing magic about 300 degrees, that's just the point
> where there's a sharp knee in the curve of RATE of oxidation for
> conventional oils. But oils oxidze (slowly) at room temperature, an
> oxidze (still fairly slowly, but measurably) at 195 degrees, which
can
> lead to varnish formation over time. Synthetics protect against that
> type of degradation better also.

I blew a lower rad hose once, and had to limp 2 miles home. I'm
thinking that the Mobil 1 5W-30 in there might have helped once
the cooling system completely failed and the engine temps probably
shot up. It was a cool night though.

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, rich wrote:

> The only reason to EVER use a synth oil is if your oil temp is going to
> get into the 300 deg, range. ie racing HARD.

Spoken like someone who's never lived North of Tucson.

Two words, bub: "Pour point".