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Got a ticket Friday...



 
 
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  #31  
Old January 18th 05, 11:00 PM
Motorhead Lawyer
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Posts: n/a
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Cory Dunkle wrote:
>

<SNIP>

You broke several of my well-publicized rules of behavior.

First, you did a Dumb Thing in front of a cop. You *should be* old
enough and smart enough to know what power through puddles can do. If
not, go back and learn it. Whatever you do, don't try justifying it.
You screwed up.

Second, you *Acted Guilty*. Never pull over voluntarily until the
disco lights are on in your mirror and the cop is clearly *staying
behind you*. If you'd simply driven on down the street nicely, he
might have changed his mind - but you'll never know now. If *you* pull
over first, *he's* gotta pull over (to see what's up) unless he's in a
hurry to get somewhere else.

Third, you tried to argue at the scene. That's neither the time nor
the place. If you want to argue, that's what courts are for.

Fourth, you started an argument over your 'guilt' when the offer was a
*good deal*. The officer was trying to give you a break and you
essentially jumped down his throat for it. Really *really* stupid.

Now, you want to *fight* the 'easy-way-out' ticket you got because you
didn't *really* do that? Well, DUH! You've never seen Eric Idle going
"nudge, nudge, wink, wink" on Python? If you *ever* want to get to the
point where you get the breaks you think you deserve, you'd better
learn to *recognize them*!

Had you explained your loss of traction (as you did) and *apologized*
for what you did (instad of trying to justify it as OK), you might not
have even gotten the seatbelt cite.

So basically, you talked yourself out of a break and into trouble.
You're beginning to give 'young and stupid' a bad name.
--
C.R. Krieger
(Been there; done that)

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  #32  
Old January 19th 05, 01:30 AM
Cory Dunkle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Motorhead Lawyer" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Cory Dunkle wrote:
> >

> <SNIP>
>
> You broke several of my well-publicized rules of behavior.
>
> First, you did a Dumb Thing in front of a cop. You *should be* old
> enough and smart enough to know what power through puddles can do. If
> not, go back and learn it. Whatever you do, don't try justifying it.
> You screwed up.


Okay, a puddle I can't see I should apparently know is there to not
accelerate with so much throttle. Right, that makes a lot of sense. By the
time the tire spun I was through the puddle, it chirped and I was going on
with getting moving.

> Second, you *Acted Guilty*. Never pull over voluntarily until the
> disco lights are on in your mirror and the cop is clearly *staying
> behind you*. If you'd simply driven on down the street nicely, he
> might have changed his mind - but you'll never know now. If *you* pull
> over first, *he's* gotta pull over (to see what's up) unless he's in a
> hurry to get somewhere else.


I'm not stupid. I know when a cop is going to stop me. As the tire chirped I
saw the cop slowing for the light and had a feeling he was gonna give me a
hard time over it. I checked my mirror and he was turning around so I
stopped. Of course if I was driving an econo-box I wouldn't have even
bothered checking on waht the cop was doing. He most likely wouldn't have
thought anything of it had I been driving an econo-box or if it was
soccer-mom in her minivan with the kids. It's called profiling. The cop had
a prejudice against me because I was driving a car with a V8, a louder
exhaust, and is from the '60s. it doesn't matter that it's a family car with
a small block that isn't very fast and takes a lot of coaxing to spin the
tires. Anyhow, I'm not gonna go on and pretend to be oblivious to what
happened when a cop is obviously going to stop me. I'm going to find a
suitable place to stop and wait for him.

> Third, you tried to argue at the scene. That's neither the time nor
> the place. If you want to argue, that's what courts are for.


At the least I am going to explain to the cop what happened, which is what I
did. It bothered me when he showed me no respect.

> Fourth, you started an argument over your 'guilt' when the offer was a
> *good deal*. The officer was trying to give you a break and you
> essentially jumped down his throat for it. Really *really* stupid.


The cop offered me no "*good deal*". He knew as well as I did that careless
driving would be a totally BS ticket that wouldn't stand up in court. I have
pictures of the intersection in case it comes to that. If anything I'd be
just as well with the careless driving ticket as I highly doubt it would
hold up in court. The seatbelt ticekt will probably be a pain in the ass to
fight.

> Now, you want to *fight* the 'easy-way-out' ticket you got because you
> didn't *really* do that? Well, DUH! You've never seen Eric Idle going
> "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" on Python? If you *ever* want to get to the
> point where you get the breaks you think you deserve, you'd better
> learn to *recognize them*!


This is not a "break". I did nothing wrong, and nothing unsafe, and I highly
doubt anything illegal either. I'd love to see the law that says it's
illegal to briefly spin your tire on wet pavement.

> Had you explained your loss of traction (as you did) and *apologized*
> for what you did (instad of trying to justify it as OK), you might not
> have even gotten the seatbelt cite.


Not so. The cop didn't want to hear any of it. He was clearly prejudiced and
nothing I could have said would change his mind.

> So basically, you talked yourself out of a break and into trouble.
> You're beginning to give 'young and stupid' a bad name.


What it comes down to it that I'm innocent. I did nothing careless or
dangerous. Why should I have to jump through hoops and play games when I am
innocent? I was polite from the start. I stopped without him having to come
barreling after me, pulled into a parking spot so as not to be in a
dangerous spot as most morons stop in or have him have to get out in the
street, and was polite all the way until the point where he disrespected me
after I explained what happened. He gave me the ticket before he gave me a
chance to explain what happened. Regardless, what's done is done. The cop
had a prejudice and he gave me a ticket for something I didn't even do. So
be it. I have a witness, so fighting it should be that much easier.

Cory


  #33  
Old January 19th 05, 01:30 AM
Cory Dunkle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Motorhead Lawyer" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Cory Dunkle wrote:
> >

> <SNIP>
>
> You broke several of my well-publicized rules of behavior.
>
> First, you did a Dumb Thing in front of a cop. You *should be* old
> enough and smart enough to know what power through puddles can do. If
> not, go back and learn it. Whatever you do, don't try justifying it.
> You screwed up.


Okay, a puddle I can't see I should apparently know is there to not
accelerate with so much throttle. Right, that makes a lot of sense. By the
time the tire spun I was through the puddle, it chirped and I was going on
with getting moving.

> Second, you *Acted Guilty*. Never pull over voluntarily until the
> disco lights are on in your mirror and the cop is clearly *staying
> behind you*. If you'd simply driven on down the street nicely, he
> might have changed his mind - but you'll never know now. If *you* pull
> over first, *he's* gotta pull over (to see what's up) unless he's in a
> hurry to get somewhere else.


I'm not stupid. I know when a cop is going to stop me. As the tire chirped I
saw the cop slowing for the light and had a feeling he was gonna give me a
hard time over it. I checked my mirror and he was turning around so I
stopped. Of course if I was driving an econo-box I wouldn't have even
bothered checking on waht the cop was doing. He most likely wouldn't have
thought anything of it had I been driving an econo-box or if it was
soccer-mom in her minivan with the kids. It's called profiling. The cop had
a prejudice against me because I was driving a car with a V8, a louder
exhaust, and is from the '60s. it doesn't matter that it's a family car with
a small block that isn't very fast and takes a lot of coaxing to spin the
tires. Anyhow, I'm not gonna go on and pretend to be oblivious to what
happened when a cop is obviously going to stop me. I'm going to find a
suitable place to stop and wait for him.

> Third, you tried to argue at the scene. That's neither the time nor
> the place. If you want to argue, that's what courts are for.


At the least I am going to explain to the cop what happened, which is what I
did. It bothered me when he showed me no respect.

> Fourth, you started an argument over your 'guilt' when the offer was a
> *good deal*. The officer was trying to give you a break and you
> essentially jumped down his throat for it. Really *really* stupid.


The cop offered me no "*good deal*". He knew as well as I did that careless
driving would be a totally BS ticket that wouldn't stand up in court. I have
pictures of the intersection in case it comes to that. If anything I'd be
just as well with the careless driving ticket as I highly doubt it would
hold up in court. The seatbelt ticekt will probably be a pain in the ass to
fight.

> Now, you want to *fight* the 'easy-way-out' ticket you got because you
> didn't *really* do that? Well, DUH! You've never seen Eric Idle going
> "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" on Python? If you *ever* want to get to the
> point where you get the breaks you think you deserve, you'd better
> learn to *recognize them*!


This is not a "break". I did nothing wrong, and nothing unsafe, and I highly
doubt anything illegal either. I'd love to see the law that says it's
illegal to briefly spin your tire on wet pavement.

> Had you explained your loss of traction (as you did) and *apologized*
> for what you did (instad of trying to justify it as OK), you might not
> have even gotten the seatbelt cite.


Not so. The cop didn't want to hear any of it. He was clearly prejudiced and
nothing I could have said would change his mind.

> So basically, you talked yourself out of a break and into trouble.
> You're beginning to give 'young and stupid' a bad name.


What it comes down to it that I'm innocent. I did nothing careless or
dangerous. Why should I have to jump through hoops and play games when I am
innocent? I was polite from the start. I stopped without him having to come
barreling after me, pulled into a parking spot so as not to be in a
dangerous spot as most morons stop in or have him have to get out in the
street, and was polite all the way until the point where he disrespected me
after I explained what happened. He gave me the ticket before he gave me a
chance to explain what happened. Regardless, what's done is done. The cop
had a prejudice and he gave me a ticket for something I didn't even do. So
be it. I have a witness, so fighting it should be that much easier.

Cory


  #34  
Old January 19th 05, 04:43 AM
Brent P
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Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, Cory Dunkle wrote:

> I'm not stupid. I know when a cop is going to stop me. As the tire chirped I
> saw the cop slowing for the light and had a feeling he was gonna give me a
> hard time over it. I checked my mirror and he was turning around so I
> stopped.


Still a bad move. The other day I am taking the backside route home down
one of the view residental streets that goes anywhere around here. I am
doing about 25 mph, 28mph tops, 25mph limit when a cop is waiting at a
sign street. Waits way too long. He waits for me to pass then he guns it
up to like 35-40 to catch me and get on my ass. Stop sign ahead. I put on my
signal and I have to slowly stop cause this cop is looking like he's
gonna rear end me. I stop and make my turn, he follows. He gets on my
ass again. I make my next turn to get home and he doesn't follow. I am
pretty sure he ran my plates, I was pretty sure he was going to stop me
for a papers check at least. But maybe he was bright enough to read the
address on the computer screen and realize that's exactly where I was
headed, at least with the final turn he saw since that's where it goes.

> Of course if I was driving an econo-box I wouldn't have even
> bothered checking on waht the cop was doing. He most likely wouldn't have
> thought anything of it had I been driving an econo-box or if it was
> soccer-mom in her minivan with the kids.


Cops are pretty dumb about cars fairly often. I've had more than one
person relate how a cop hassled them about spinning tires on acceleration
when they were driving some crappy escort or other gutless car. Usually
there was something that actually could and did do it nearby.


  #35  
Old January 19th 05, 04:43 AM
Brent P
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, Cory Dunkle wrote:

> I'm not stupid. I know when a cop is going to stop me. As the tire chirped I
> saw the cop slowing for the light and had a feeling he was gonna give me a
> hard time over it. I checked my mirror and he was turning around so I
> stopped.


Still a bad move. The other day I am taking the backside route home down
one of the view residental streets that goes anywhere around here. I am
doing about 25 mph, 28mph tops, 25mph limit when a cop is waiting at a
sign street. Waits way too long. He waits for me to pass then he guns it
up to like 35-40 to catch me and get on my ass. Stop sign ahead. I put on my
signal and I have to slowly stop cause this cop is looking like he's
gonna rear end me. I stop and make my turn, he follows. He gets on my
ass again. I make my next turn to get home and he doesn't follow. I am
pretty sure he ran my plates, I was pretty sure he was going to stop me
for a papers check at least. But maybe he was bright enough to read the
address on the computer screen and realize that's exactly where I was
headed, at least with the final turn he saw since that's where it goes.

> Of course if I was driving an econo-box I wouldn't have even
> bothered checking on waht the cop was doing. He most likely wouldn't have
> thought anything of it had I been driving an econo-box or if it was
> soccer-mom in her minivan with the kids.


Cops are pretty dumb about cars fairly often. I've had more than one
person relate how a cop hassled them about spinning tires on acceleration
when they were driving some crappy escort or other gutless car. Usually
there was something that actually could and did do it nearby.


  #36  
Old January 19th 05, 05:34 AM
Alex Rodriguez
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, says...

>He told me he could have wrote me a ticket for careless driving, but did not
>because that carried points. Instead he gave me a seatbelt ticket. I asked
>hif he realized that I had not spun my tire on purpose, and as I was
>accelerating hit a puddle, thus the tire chirped as the pavement was once
>again dry before I let off the gas. He said how is he supposed to know that,
>in such a tone as to convey that he doesn't believe me.


Fight the ticket. Make sure you quote the cop in the exact tone when you
are in court.

>I went on to tell
>him that if I wanted to spin my tires, there would have been a lot of noise
>and smoke, not a little chirp as I am driving normally and hit a puddle. He
>again said how is he supposed to know that, and to take the seatbelt ticket.
>I told him I was wearing my seatbelt. He said he didn't see it.


That explains everything. The cop is obviously blind. You should have
asked where his seeing eye dog was.

>I responded
>that regardless of whether or not he saw my seatbelt, it is breaking no law
>to sit in a parked car without a seatbelt. He then asked if I would rather
>have the careless driving ticket with points, so I told him sure, if I was
>driving carelessly then that is the ticket I should get, not a seatbelt
>ticket when I was wearing my seatbelt as I always do. He then told me to
>deal with it in court and it wasn't his job to argue with me. I said okay,
>and asked where the courthouse was and waht the date was. He told me and
>left.


A dick who doesn't care that you have to waste your time, and money, fixing
his mistakes.

>I then looked at the ticket and say he noted the conditions as dry, I was
>gonna go take pictures of the intersection where it happened in case they
>try to give me a careless driving ticket or argue anything like that when I
>go to court, assuming this cop even shows.


You should take the pictures. It will help your case and show the cop
was careless.

>As I was driving around the block
>I saw the cop, so I stopped and asked him why he wrote dry as teh conditions
>where it had rained earlier in the day and parts of the road were wet, such
>as around the corner I turned. He told me to leave.


This was a bad idea. Never argue with a cop in the street. Just like you
never argue with a judge in his court room.

>I told him I wanted it
>in writing that conditions were wet that day if he did in fact try to change
>the ticket to careless driving or bring that up when I went to court for the
>ticket. He said he didn't see any water on the ground and it looked dry to
>him (hmm... just like a took my seatbelt off right in front of him and he
>didn't notice), but he would go check and make a note of it. I asked why he
>would not give me a copy of such a note. He then asked how old I was and
>told me to leave, belittling me and disregarding me because of my age (19,
>will be 20 in a few days). So I left and took pictures on the intersection.


It's good that you took the pictures and left. No need to argue more with
the cop.

>I'm not sure if I should go file a complaint against the officer or what. He
>disregarded me, belittled me, didn't believe me and was rude to me simply
>because I'm 19. I felt very insulted and frustrated. I never spin my tires
>on the street, much less in rush hour while turning onto a major street.
>Hell, that big car with a little 302 can't even spin the tires on dry
>pavement since I got my new BFGoodrich Radial T/As, and even when it's
>raining they grip very nicely and it takes some doing to spin the tires.
>Regardless, I'm a safe and courteous driver. I don't screw around on the
>street. Hell, lately on anything but interstate type of highways I do the
>speed limit or less to be sure I don't have to deal with cops (who do double
>the limit in residential zones around here and run red lights, when not on
>call).


Filing the complaint will probably just be a waste of your time. It could be
the officer made and honest mistake. He just doesn't want to admit to it.

>In any case, if all this is gonna be is a seatbelt ticket then so be it. My
>girlfriend was with me and knows I wear my seatbelt every time I get in the
>car. She also saw me take my seatbelt off right in front of the cop while I
>was reaching for my papers. I'm half expecting them to disregard her as a
>witness though, and believe that lying scumbag of a cop. I suppose I'll find
>out when I go to court.


Ask her to go to court with you and testify that you were wearing your
seatbelt. They can't just disregard her testimony.

>Anyhow, it just ****es me off that cops do crap like that. I mean honestly,
>if I was doing anything careless or unsafe give me the points. That's what
>points are for, to add up and get bad drivers off the road. I'd rather not
>have a corrupt system and if I actually do something I shouldn't, take some
>points and so be it. Not this BS like we have where even if you get a points
>ticket you just go to court and they don't even wanna hear or know what
>happened, you get in a line and tell them whether or not you will take their
>deal of a different fine and no points. It's nothing but revenue collection,
>hence the seatbelt ticket I got. He knows a careless driving ticket is BS,
>so he gives a seatbelt ticket thinking it makes him look good and that I'll
>pay it instead of missing work (cops need a certain number of tickets to be
>put up for promotions, if they don't write enough tickets it's frowned upon
>and assumed that they are not doing their job). By missing work yeah I'll
>lose some more money by not working than I would if I were to pay it, but
>not all that much more being as how I work part time for my college. My work
>that I actually make money on, computer work and consulting, I schedule for
>whenever is convenient for me.


The cops know that it costs you money to defend and fix their mistake. That is
why they don't care. It costs them nothing. In fact many of them get paid
overtime to go to court. So they look forward to going to court.

>Well, I just had to vent a bit, as this is frustrating. Me and the
>girlfriend ended up missing the movie we were going to and went to the next
>show. The end result was I ended up leaving for CT an hour and some change
>later than I wanted to, which kinda stunk.


Prepare your defense and don't vent in court. You should prevail.
----------------
Alex

  #37  
Old January 19th 05, 05:34 AM
Alex Rodriguez
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, says...

>He told me he could have wrote me a ticket for careless driving, but did not
>because that carried points. Instead he gave me a seatbelt ticket. I asked
>hif he realized that I had not spun my tire on purpose, and as I was
>accelerating hit a puddle, thus the tire chirped as the pavement was once
>again dry before I let off the gas. He said how is he supposed to know that,
>in such a tone as to convey that he doesn't believe me.


Fight the ticket. Make sure you quote the cop in the exact tone when you
are in court.

>I went on to tell
>him that if I wanted to spin my tires, there would have been a lot of noise
>and smoke, not a little chirp as I am driving normally and hit a puddle. He
>again said how is he supposed to know that, and to take the seatbelt ticket.
>I told him I was wearing my seatbelt. He said he didn't see it.


That explains everything. The cop is obviously blind. You should have
asked where his seeing eye dog was.

>I responded
>that regardless of whether or not he saw my seatbelt, it is breaking no law
>to sit in a parked car without a seatbelt. He then asked if I would rather
>have the careless driving ticket with points, so I told him sure, if I was
>driving carelessly then that is the ticket I should get, not a seatbelt
>ticket when I was wearing my seatbelt as I always do. He then told me to
>deal with it in court and it wasn't his job to argue with me. I said okay,
>and asked where the courthouse was and waht the date was. He told me and
>left.


A dick who doesn't care that you have to waste your time, and money, fixing
his mistakes.

>I then looked at the ticket and say he noted the conditions as dry, I was
>gonna go take pictures of the intersection where it happened in case they
>try to give me a careless driving ticket or argue anything like that when I
>go to court, assuming this cop even shows.


You should take the pictures. It will help your case and show the cop
was careless.

>As I was driving around the block
>I saw the cop, so I stopped and asked him why he wrote dry as teh conditions
>where it had rained earlier in the day and parts of the road were wet, such
>as around the corner I turned. He told me to leave.


This was a bad idea. Never argue with a cop in the street. Just like you
never argue with a judge in his court room.

>I told him I wanted it
>in writing that conditions were wet that day if he did in fact try to change
>the ticket to careless driving or bring that up when I went to court for the
>ticket. He said he didn't see any water on the ground and it looked dry to
>him (hmm... just like a took my seatbelt off right in front of him and he
>didn't notice), but he would go check and make a note of it. I asked why he
>would not give me a copy of such a note. He then asked how old I was and
>told me to leave, belittling me and disregarding me because of my age (19,
>will be 20 in a few days). So I left and took pictures on the intersection.


It's good that you took the pictures and left. No need to argue more with
the cop.

>I'm not sure if I should go file a complaint against the officer or what. He
>disregarded me, belittled me, didn't believe me and was rude to me simply
>because I'm 19. I felt very insulted and frustrated. I never spin my tires
>on the street, much less in rush hour while turning onto a major street.
>Hell, that big car with a little 302 can't even spin the tires on dry
>pavement since I got my new BFGoodrich Radial T/As, and even when it's
>raining they grip very nicely and it takes some doing to spin the tires.
>Regardless, I'm a safe and courteous driver. I don't screw around on the
>street. Hell, lately on anything but interstate type of highways I do the
>speed limit or less to be sure I don't have to deal with cops (who do double
>the limit in residential zones around here and run red lights, when not on
>call).


Filing the complaint will probably just be a waste of your time. It could be
the officer made and honest mistake. He just doesn't want to admit to it.

>In any case, if all this is gonna be is a seatbelt ticket then so be it. My
>girlfriend was with me and knows I wear my seatbelt every time I get in the
>car. She also saw me take my seatbelt off right in front of the cop while I
>was reaching for my papers. I'm half expecting them to disregard her as a
>witness though, and believe that lying scumbag of a cop. I suppose I'll find
>out when I go to court.


Ask her to go to court with you and testify that you were wearing your
seatbelt. They can't just disregard her testimony.

>Anyhow, it just ****es me off that cops do crap like that. I mean honestly,
>if I was doing anything careless or unsafe give me the points. That's what
>points are for, to add up and get bad drivers off the road. I'd rather not
>have a corrupt system and if I actually do something I shouldn't, take some
>points and so be it. Not this BS like we have where even if you get a points
>ticket you just go to court and they don't even wanna hear or know what
>happened, you get in a line and tell them whether or not you will take their
>deal of a different fine and no points. It's nothing but revenue collection,
>hence the seatbelt ticket I got. He knows a careless driving ticket is BS,
>so he gives a seatbelt ticket thinking it makes him look good and that I'll
>pay it instead of missing work (cops need a certain number of tickets to be
>put up for promotions, if they don't write enough tickets it's frowned upon
>and assumed that they are not doing their job). By missing work yeah I'll
>lose some more money by not working than I would if I were to pay it, but
>not all that much more being as how I work part time for my college. My work
>that I actually make money on, computer work and consulting, I schedule for
>whenever is convenient for me.


The cops know that it costs you money to defend and fix their mistake. That is
why they don't care. It costs them nothing. In fact many of them get paid
overtime to go to court. So they look forward to going to court.

>Well, I just had to vent a bit, as this is frustrating. Me and the
>girlfriend ended up missing the movie we were going to and went to the next
>show. The end result was I ended up leaving for CT an hour and some change
>later than I wanted to, which kinda stunk.


Prepare your defense and don't vent in court. You should prevail.
----------------
Alex

  #40  
Old January 19th 05, 02:21 PM
It DRIVES me crazy 2
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Posts: n/a
Default


Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> Peter, you have to start learning to trim your quotes.



I agree. I've been trying to figure how to incorporate the link for
"show quoted text" is. Any suggestions?

 




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