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330 2-Door More Expensive than 4-Door?



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 23rd 05, 07:12 PM
Jeff Strickland
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"Matt O'Toole" > wrote in message
...
> Jeff Strickland wrote:
>
> > I once owned a 2-door Accord, and I found that my liability
> > insurance was higher by about $300 per year because the car only had
> > 2 doors. Apparently, 2-door cars are driven more aggressively and the
> > likelihood of an accident -- and a liability claim -- is much higher.

>
> Oh, puh-lease! Do you really think insurance companies don't set their

prices
> according to people's willingness to pay more, to drive a desirable

vehicle?
>


I'm sure they probably do, but they are going to frame it in the argument
that the car is more sporty, therefore more apt to be driven aggressively,
and therefore more apt to be in an accident where the insurance carrier
would experience increaded exposure to liability.



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  #12  
Old June 23rd 05, 07:13 PM
Jeff Strickland
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"dizzy" > wrote in message
...
> On 22 Jun 2005 14:54:35 -0700, Ignasi Palou-Rivera
> > wrote:
>
> >"Dave Plowman (News)" > writes:
> >> In article >,
> >> Jeff Strickland > wrote:
> >> > The 4-door chassis is inherently more rigid, which is a good thing.

The
> >> > 2-door models have to have added structural parts added on --

designed
> >> > in -- to get the stiffness back. This costs money.
> >>
> >> Unless you're talking a convertible, I can't see this.

> >
> >I'm with Dave here. I can't see how a door (and an opening) would add
> >any rigidity.

>
> The 2-door has a larger hole. The 4-door has 2 more holes, but
> there's a metal beam between them.
>


Exactly.




  #13  
Old June 23rd 05, 10:56 PM
Dave Plowman (News)
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In article >,
Jeff Strickland > wrote:
> > >I'm with Dave here. I can't see how a door (and an opening) would add
> > >any rigidity.

> >
> > The 2-door has a larger hole. The 4-door has 2 more holes, but
> > there's a metal beam between them.
> >


> Exactly.


So you think any two door has just a sheet of metal between front door and
rear wing? The B post on a two door has to be equally as strong as on a
four door to prevent the door intruding inwards in a side impact.

A door adds little or no rigidity - just weight.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity -- I'm a carrier

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #14  
Old June 24th 05, 01:33 PM
Malt_Hound
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Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article >,
> Jeff Strickland > wrote:
>
>>>>I'm with Dave here. I can't see how a door (and an opening) would add
>>>>any rigidity.
>>>
>>>The 2-door has a larger hole. The 4-door has 2 more holes, but
>>>there's a metal beam between them.
>>>

>
>
>>Exactly.

>
>
> So you think any two door has just a sheet of metal between front door and
> rear wing? The B post on a two door has to be equally as strong as on a
> four door to prevent the door intruding inwards in a side impact.
>
> A door adds little or no rigidity - just weight.
>


I think you are missing the point, Dave. On 2 doors, the door is a much
larger one to accommodate the entry to the rear seats. This larger hole
is marginally less rigid than two smaller holes. The post between the
doors adds structural rigidity. Or so they say...

Personally, I would just buy whichever car you fancy and don't worry
about such trivia...

-Fred W
  #15  
Old June 24th 05, 02:27 PM
Dave Plowman (News)
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In article >,
Malt_Hound > wrote:
> > So you think any two door has just a sheet of metal between front door and
> > rear wing? The B post on a two door has to be equally as strong as on a
> > four door to prevent the door intruding inwards in a side impact.
> >
> > A door adds little or no rigidity - just weight.
> >


> I think you are missing the point, Dave. On 2 doors, the door is a much
> larger one to accommodate the entry to the rear seats. This larger hole
> is marginally less rigid than two smaller holes. The post between the
> doors adds structural rigidity. Or so they say...


But that post will still exist on a two door? We're not talking old US
cars with a perimeter frame. ;-)

And I really can't see that *if* any strengthening was required, it would
be more expensive than the extra door. Or as heavy.

> Personally, I would just buy whichever car you fancy and don't worry
> about such trivia...


It's all about exclusivity. With cheap UK shopping hatches, a four door
will cost more than a two.

With BMW, the 'normal' car is four door therefore two - a coupe - costs
more. ;-)

--
*Ever stop to think and forget to start again?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #16  
Old June 24th 05, 05:50 PM
Jeff Strickland
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"Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Jeff Strickland > wrote:
> > > >I'm with Dave here. I can't see how a door (and an opening) would add
> > > >any rigidity.
> > >
> > > The 2-door has a larger hole. The 4-door has 2 more holes, but
> > > there's a metal beam between them.
> > >

>
> > Exactly.

>
> So you think any two door has just a sheet of metal between front door and
> rear wing? The B post on a two door has to be equally as strong as on a
> four door to prevent the door intruding inwards in a side impact.
>
> A door adds little or no rigidity - just weight.
>


The door adds nothing. The structural integrity is enhance when the door
openings are smaller. Using this logic, a four door should be stiffer
because there is an A pillar, a B pillar and a C pillar, and smaller door
openings. The 2 door only has an A and a C pillar. The theory that dizzy and
I are putting forth is that the 2 door has (perhaps) stiffening added to the
floor pan, and this adds to the cost of the vehicle. Therer is certainly
stiffening components added to the floor pan of the convertable, but this is
a somewhat different situation than is presented in a hardtop 2 door car.

Having suggested that, another poster suggests that the coupe gets the Sport
Package as standard equipment whereas the sedan has it as an option that
costs in the neighborhood of $2000. This could also explain the price
difference.



  #17  
Old June 24th 05, 05:53 PM
Jeff Strickland
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"Malt_Hound" > wrote in message
...
> Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Jeff Strickland > wrote:
> >
> >>>>I'm with Dave here. I can't see how a door (and an opening) would add
> >>>>any rigidity.
> >>>
> >>>The 2-door has a larger hole. The 4-door has 2 more holes, but
> >>>there's a metal beam between them.
> >>>

> >
> >
> >>Exactly.

> >
> >
> > So you think any two door has just a sheet of metal between front door

and
> > rear wing? The B post on a two door has to be equally as strong as on a
> > four door to prevent the door intruding inwards in a side impact.
> >
> > A door adds little or no rigidity - just weight.
> >

>
> I think you are missing the point, Dave. On 2 doors, the door is a much
> larger one to accommodate the entry to the rear seats. This larger hole
> is marginally less rigid than two smaller holes. The post between the
> doors adds structural rigidity. Or so they say...
>
> Personally, I would just buy whichever car you fancy and don't worry
> about such trivia...
>


Once again, Fred has hit the nail squarely on the head.

I can't imagine how the stiffening differences in a 2 door and a 4 door car
are going to affect my life in the least. I will never get my car so close
to the limits that are affected by this sort of thing to worry about the
impact of having one or the other. Indeed, I may get to the limit on
occasion, but when I get there I'll have many other things to be thinking
about than why I have 2 or 4 doors.

Having had both 2 and 4 doors, 4 is the much better option for me.



  #18  
Old June 24th 05, 07:48 PM
Neil
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"Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote in message
...

>
> It's all about exclusivity. With cheap UK shopping hatches, a four door
> will cost more than a two.
>
> With BMW, the 'normal' car is four door therefore two - a coupe - costs
> more. ;-)
>


I'm pretty sure the E30 2-door was cheaper than the 4-door, but then we
didn't refer to the 2-door as a coupe did we? At least I was lead to
believe it was called a 2-door saloon.

Perhaps the real answer for the E36 onwards is that the coupe shares few
body panels with the saloon despite the similarity in appearance.

  #19  
Old June 24th 05, 10:06 PM
R. Mark Clayton
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"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> Jeff Strickland > wrote:
>> > > >I'm with Dave here. I can't see how a door (and an opening) would
>> > > >add
>> > > >any rigidity.
>> > >
>> > > The 2-door has a larger hole. The 4-door has 2 more holes, but
>> > > there's a metal beam between them.
>> > >

>>
>> > Exactly.

>>
>> So you think any two door has just a sheet of metal between front door
>> and
>> rear wing? The B post on a two door has to be equally as strong as on a
>> four door to prevent the door intruding inwards in a side impact.
>>
>> A door adds little or no rigidity - just weight.
>>

>
> The door adds nothing. The structural integrity is enhance when the door
> openings are smaller. Using this logic, a four door should be stiffer
> because there is an A pillar, a B pillar and a C pillar, and smaller door
> openings. The 2 door only has an A and a C pillar. The theory that dizzy
> and
> I are putting forth is that the 2 door has (perhaps) stiffening added to
> the
> floor pan, and this adds to the cost of the vehicle. Therer is certainly
> stiffening components added to the floor pan of the convertable, but this
> is
> a somewhat different situation than is presented in a hardtop 2 door car.
>
> Having suggested that, another poster suggests that the coupe gets the
> Sport
> Package as standard equipment whereas the sedan has it as an option that
> costs in the neighborhood of $2000. This could also explain the price
> difference.
>
>
>


A 4 door has A, B and C pillars.

The compact has IIRC a standard front door and B & C pillars.

A coupe typically has no B pillar, so the strength of the roof and floor pan
need to be increased.

A drop head coupe has no roof, so the floor has to be greatly strengthened
for the structural rigidity needed in a top class car.


  #20  
Old June 25th 05, 01:42 AM
GLitwinski
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No doubt there really are some real construction-cost related reasons, but
also in play is the fact that 2-doors are viewed as much more of a toy than
are 4-door sedans which are more practical devices. People are in general
more willing to pay more for their toys than for the practical things they
need to buy. If you think about it, a properly designed 2-door should cost
no more than a 4-door. Fewer parts to design, fit and align.

Another example is that manufacturers, including BMW, charge more for a
larger capacity version of a given engine family even though the only real
changes between the, say, 2.5 L flavor and the 3.0 L are a little more metal
removed in manufacturing the engine or a longer throw crank. Same
transmission and drive train otherwise. Bigger bucks for the larger capacity
version. Perceived value justifies it.


"Vik Rubenfeld" > wrote in message
...
> Why is the 2-door 330ci, more expensive than the 4-door 330i?



 




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