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#1
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A604-41TE Amsoil synthetic versus ATF+3 Mpoar 7176 ??
Hello everybody,
I am new here, and I freely admit I am not an expert on lubricants, or auto trans axles for that matter. I 'am' a die hard FWD MOPAR enthusiast however, and I have an above average understanding of relevant matters to this topic. I am in no way affiliated with either Daimler Chrysler, or any lubricant blender or distributing network. I am merely a private party having experience with the A604/41TE4 auto transaxles. I have read with great interest the debate about ATF +3 and +4, verses Amsoil Type IV 'full synthetic' Universal ATF, and I wish to offer my limited knowledge and personal experience regarding this. I do not care *who* is "right or wrong", and neither do I care much about posting style. The facts are what I am concerned with. I can only offer my personal experience and limited knowledge, because frankly it appears obvious to me, that statistics and fancy numbers hold little power to persuade these days regarding ATF and other lubricants. Really such debates are just arguments driven mainly by emotion, e.g, product and manufacturer loyalty based upon advertising hype and corporate propaganda [*spin*]. The facts, so far, have taken a back seat to the forgoing, regarding the ATF +3 and +4 vs alternatives debate. Most of us are aware that for too long many if not most Transmission Shops, wrongly believe an A604 can handle even Dextron Mercon ATF, as long as a friction modifier is added. Many a sad A604 owner has learned however, that this is simply NOT true. But they obviously do not really know why this is so. DC has been partly to blame for these misconceptions, because their TSB's on this issue have been until recently, ambiguous and open to interpretation. In fact even now, because of this, many A604 owners are still unsure if ATF +4 is suitable for *their year* of A604. Or whether or not ATF + 4 is a 'full synthetic' Type IV PAO ATF, or just a lower grade 'semi synthetic' Type III PAO ATF. I am going to try now, to avoid laying out "facts" in a way which will only provoke an argument. HA! riiiiiiight. Instead I will TRY to offer the following, which I hope will assist you as it did me, to sort out the *corporate spin and advertising hype* from good information. I have gone through two A604's, despite my tendency to to be extremely conscientious about maintenance issues, and I became "absolutely paranoid" about my A604. Religiously checking the ATF level daily, carefully examining the fluid on the stick, watching temp levels on my AutoMeter Trans temp gauge, and reading to learn about this trans axle, even talking face to face with a few real experts. As a result I became convinced that the A604/41TE4, as it is now, is a truly great design. It is a genuine marvel of technology. It's weakness has really been that existing ATF, even DC's new + 4, is simply not adequate to cool it and keep it free from micro-varnish. Although ATF + 4 is a step in the right direction, it is really a type IV PAO semi synthetic. As such it still has impurities, *which can and will* convert to micro-varnish etc, and it's *viscosity index* is inferior to a 'true full synthetic' type IV. It can NOT cool as well as a true Type IV full synthetic. I recently did a complete flush and filter change, in an upgrade to a Type IV full synthetic ATF. I was going to go with Redline C+, but none was available in my area, and I wanted to do it before the weather here warms up any more than it is now. So I spoke at length with a tech at Amsoil named Kevin who posts on the Bob Is The Oil Guy forum. He carefully explained to me why their "universal" type IV full synthetic ATF, is not snake oil, as I thought it just "had to be". I mean, how could there be such a thing as a "universal" ATF?! OK. Cut to the chase. I had my last A604 race built last year. Alloy spline and planetaries, the best Kevlar clutches, a premium TC and pumps, welded diff pin etc, and I changed from the 'old tech' tube and fin cooler to a stacked plate cooler. I only used MOPAR ATF +3. Still the damned thing would just get too hot during "spirited street driving", and especially in stop and go in town. All of this just left me "sick of the whole thing". I was on the verge of doing the 5 speed manual swap, despite the high cost in time and effort because I was getting the beginning signs of "problems", despite all the best parts and perfect maintenance! Only 8 months after the expensive rebuild, but *as the weather warmed up* it was getting a bit harder to move the handle from P to D, and 3rd was not as firm as it really should be. I knew the solenoid valve body was not old or defective, and my PRNDL switch was just fine, as were all the connections "down there". I considered going to MOPAR ATF +4, despite the fact that, as usual, several Chrysler service reps had different interpretations of the DC TSBs. No one was sure if I even should change to ATF +4, until very recently. At the advice of a trusted performance expert. I opened my mind and began to do research on the full synthetic alternative. I was always a, NO WAY JOSE Only MOPAR ATF +3 is going onto that baby, kind of person. But Joe has never given me bad advice, so I decided to look into what ATF +4 really is. Thank you Joe! The fact the DC has NOT licensed the formula to others, as even FORD has their new ATF, and DC charges $25 a gallon for ATF +4, tells me that money is more important to them than we are. Well, OK, I love my local MOPAR parts man, and one dealership Service manager and dealership owner in my area, really is way above average. Great people. But face it, many dealerships are "less than trustworthy", and I do not trust Daimler at all, and for good reason. So with an open mnd this time. I looked into Amsoil. I *agonized* over it. I read and I read. I talked to others who had switched to type IV PAO full synthetic ATF. Then I did it. I put it in, and let me tell you the STUFF ROCKS! I am so glad that *I did the work*, to sort through all the hype and even well intended misconceptions from loyalists. For example, those who think that Mopar +4 is a true TYPE IV PAO full synthetic, are simply mistaken because it is only a TYPE III semi synthetic. Some people even think that ATF can somehow "sense what kind of trans it is in", and then "switch characteristics to meet the application". Trans fluid is not sentient. It senses nothing, and it can not "switch characteristics". ATF can do no more than behave within it's formulation parameters, and the formulation of a true full synthetic TYPE IV PAO fluid, is greatly superior, to any Type III semi synthetic. End of story. My A604/41TE4 now runs 20 degrees F cooler, and shifts faster and firmer. I don't care if it is "supposed to last longer" or not. I do NOT care if I have to change it every 10K miles instead of tmy old 25K change ritual even. It is really worth the money too. I know that any ATF capable of making my SVB function perfectly again, and enable my A604 to run cooler and shift that much better, is going to make my trans axle last a lot longer. All I have to do is change filters and pan fluid religiously, and watch my fluid level. Yeah, it's sort of like before; but I am not "sweating it" anymore, because of the way my TRANS performs now. On a hot day, in stop and go traffic it no longer gets hot, and that lever easily and smoothly moves from P to D, even when I first start my engine. All just like it did the day it was race rebuilt. OK. Now I am out of here. I am not going to argue irrelevant semantic points, and fend spin from well intended, lovable but misguided loyalists. I have given you good and honest advice. Call the Amsoil people yourself, and at least actually use some logic regarding this issue. In short. Open your mind and consider the facts for yourself. I will leave it to you to do that. I just could not remain silent and let the BS rule on this subject. Amsoil is not snake oil. I am not going to become a distributer, but I have cleared my conscience, and my HOT 3.0 FWD MOPAR, now rocks even more than it did before. Best wishes to all of you. |
#2
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Hello everybody,
I am new here, and I freely admit I am not an expert on lubricants, or auto trans axles for that matter. I 'am' a die hard FWD MOPAR enthusiast however, and I have an above average understanding of relevant matters to this topic. I am in no way affiliated with either Daimler Chrysler, or any lubricant blender or distributing network. I am merely a private party having experience with the A604/41TE4 auto transaxles. I have read with great interest the debate about ATF +3 and +4, verses Amsoil Type IV 'full synthetic' Universal ATF, and I wish to offer my limited knowledge and personal experience regarding this. I do not care *who* is "right or wrong", and neither do I care much about posting style. The facts are what I am concerned with. I can only offer my personal experience and limited knowledge, because frankly it appears obvious to me, that statistics and fancy numbers hold little power to persuade these days regarding ATF and other lubricants. Really such debates are just arguments driven mainly by emotion, e.g, product and manufacturer loyalty based upon advertising hype and corporate propaganda [*spin*]. The facts, so far, have taken a back seat to the forgoing, regarding the ATF +3 and +4 vs alternatives debate. Most of us are aware that for too long many if not most Transmission Shops, wrongly believe an A604 can handle even Dextron Mercon ATF, as long as a friction modifier is added. Many a sad A604 owner has learned however, that this is simply NOT true. But they obviously do not really know why this is so. DC has been partly to blame for these misconceptions, because their TSB's on this issue have been until recently, ambiguous and open to interpretation. In fact even now, because of this, many A604 owners are still unsure if ATF +4 is suitable for *their year* of A604. Or whether or not ATF + 4 is a 'full synthetic' Type IV PAO ATF, or just a lower grade 'semi synthetic' Type III PAO ATF. I am going to try now, to avoid laying out "facts" in a way which will only provoke an argument. HA! riiiiiiight. Instead I will TRY to offer the following, which I hope will assist you as it did me, to sort out the *corporate spin and advertising hype* from good information. I have gone through two A604's, despite my tendency to to be extremely conscientious about maintenance issues, and I became "absolutely paranoid" about my A604. Religiously checking the ATF level daily, carefully examining the fluid on the stick, watching temp levels on my AutoMeter Trans temp gauge, and reading to learn about this trans axle, even talking face to face with a few real experts. As a result I became convinced that the A604/41TE4, as it is now, is a truly great design. It is a genuine marvel of technology. It's weakness has really been that existing ATF, even DC's new + 4, is simply not adequate to cool it and keep it free from micro-varnish. Although ATF + 4 is a step in the right direction, it is really a type IV PAO semi synthetic. As such it still has impurities, *which can and will* convert to micro-varnish etc, and it's *viscosity index* is inferior to a 'true full synthetic' type IV. It can NOT cool as well as a true Type IV full synthetic. I recently did a complete flush and filter change, in an upgrade to a Type IV full synthetic ATF. I was going to go with Redline C+, but none was available in my area, and I wanted to do it before the weather here warms up any more than it is now. So I spoke at length with a tech at Amsoil named Kevin who posts on the Bob Is The Oil Guy forum. He carefully explained to me why their "universal" type IV full synthetic ATF, is not snake oil, as I thought it just "had to be". I mean, how could there be such a thing as a "universal" ATF?! OK. Cut to the chase. I had my last A604 race built last year. Alloy spline and planetaries, the best Kevlar clutches, a premium TC and pumps, welded diff pin etc, and I changed from the 'old tech' tube and fin cooler to a stacked plate cooler. I only used MOPAR ATF +3. Still the damned thing would just get too hot during "spirited street driving", and especially in stop and go in town. All of this just left me "sick of the whole thing". I was on the verge of doing the 5 speed manual swap, despite the high cost in time and effort because I was getting the beginning signs of "problems", despite all the best parts and perfect maintenance! Only 8 months after the expensive rebuild, but *as the weather warmed up* it was getting a bit harder to move the handle from P to D, and 3rd was not as firm as it really should be. I knew the solenoid valve body was not old or defective, and my PRNDL switch was just fine, as were all the connections "down there". I considered going to MOPAR ATF +4, despite the fact that, as usual, several Chrysler service reps had different interpretations of the DC TSBs. No one was sure if I even should change to ATF +4, until very recently. At the advice of a trusted performance expert. I opened my mind and began to do research on the full synthetic alternative. I was always a, NO WAY JOSE Only MOPAR ATF +3 is going onto that baby, kind of person. But Joe has never given me bad advice, so I decided to look into what ATF +4 really is. Thank you Joe! The fact the DC has NOT licensed the formula to others, as even FORD has their new ATF, and DC charges $25 a gallon for ATF +4, tells me that money is more important to them than we are. Well, OK, I love my local MOPAR parts man, and one dealership Service manager and dealership owner in my area, really is way above average. Great people. But face it, many dealerships are "less than trustworthy", and I do not trust Daimler at all, and for good reason. So with an open mnd this time. I looked into Amsoil. I *agonized* over it. I read and I read. I talked to others who had switched to type IV PAO full synthetic ATF. Then I did it. I put it in, and let me tell you the STUFF ROCKS! I am so glad that *I did the work*, to sort through all the hype and even well intended misconceptions from loyalists. For example, those who think that Mopar +4 is a true TYPE IV PAO full synthetic, are simply mistaken because it is only a TYPE III semi synthetic. Some people even think that ATF can somehow "sense what kind of trans it is in", and then "switch characteristics to meet the application". Trans fluid is not sentient. It senses nothing, and it can not "switch characteristics". ATF can do no more than behave within it's formulation parameters, and the formulation of a true full synthetic TYPE IV PAO fluid, is greatly superior, to any Type III semi synthetic. End of story. My A604/41TE4 now runs 20 degrees F cooler, and shifts faster and firmer. I don't care if it is "supposed to last longer" or not. I do NOT care if I have to change it every 10K miles instead of tmy old 25K change ritual even. It is really worth the money too. I know that any ATF capable of making my SVB function perfectly again, and enable my A604 to run cooler and shift that much better, is going to make my trans axle last a lot longer. All I have to do is change filters and pan fluid religiously, and watch my fluid level. Yeah, it's sort of like before; but I am not "sweating it" anymore, because of the way my TRANS performs now. On a hot day, in stop and go traffic it no longer gets hot, and that lever easily and smoothly moves from P to D, even when I first start my engine. All just like it did the day it was race rebuilt. OK. Now I am out of here. I am not going to argue irrelevant semantic points, and fend spin from well intended, lovable but misguided loyalists. I have given you good and honest advice. Call the Amsoil people yourself, and at least actually use some logic regarding this issue. In short. Open your mind and consider the facts for yourself. I will leave it to you to do that. I just could not remain silent and let the BS rule on this subject. Amsoil is not snake oil. I am not going to become a distributer, but I have cleared my conscience, and my HOT 3.0 FWD MOPAR, now rocks even more than it did before. Best wishes to all of you. |
#3
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Hello everybody,
I am new here, and I freely admit I am not an expert on lubricants, or auto trans axles for that matter. I am a die hard FWD MOPAR enthusiast however, and I have an above average understanding of relevant matters to this topic. I am in no way affiliated with either Daimler Chrysler, or any lubricant blender or distributing network. I am merely a private party having experience with the A604/41TE4 auto transaxles. I have read with great interest the debate about ATF +3 and +4, verses Amsoil Type IV 'full synthetic' Universal ATF, and I wish to offer my limited knowledge and personal experience regarding this. I do not care *who* is "right or wrong", and neither do I care much about posting style. The facts are what I am concerned with, and I can only offer my personal experience and limited knowledge because frankly, it appears obvious to me that statistics and fancy numbers hold little power to persuade these days regarding ATF and other lubricants. Really such debates are just arguments driven mainly by emotion, e.g, product and manufacturer loyalty based upon advertising hype and corporate propaganda *spin*. The facts, so far have taken a back seat to the forgoing, regarding the ATF +3 and +4 vs alternatives debate. Most of us are aware that for too long, many if not most Transmission Shops wrongly believe an A604 can handle even Dextron Mercon ATF, as long as a friction modifier is added. Many a sad A604 owner has learned however, that this is simply NOT true. DC has been partly to blame for these misconceptions, because their TSB's on this issue have been until recently, ambiguous and open to interpretation. In fact even now, because of this, many A604 owners are still unsure if ATF +4 is suitable for *their year* of A604. Or whether or not ATF + 4 is really even a 'full synthetic' Type IV PAO ATF, or just a lower grade 'semi synthetic' Type III PAO ATF. I am going to try now, to avoid laying out "facts" in a way which will only provoke an argument. Instead I will offer the following, which I hope will assist you as it did me, to sort out the *corporate spin and advertising hype* from good information. I have gone through two A604's, despite my tendency to to be extremely conscientious about maintenance issues, and I became "absolutely paranoid" about my A604. Religiously checking the ATF level daily, carefully examining the fluid on the stick, watching temp levels on my AutoMeter Trans temp gauge, and reading to learn about this trans axle, even talking face to face with a few real experts. As a result I became convinced that the A604/41TE4, as it is now, is a great design. It is a true marvel of technology. It's true weakness is that existing ATF, even DC's new + 4, is simply not adequate to cool it and keep it free from micro-varnish. Although ATF + 4 is a step in the right direction, it is really a type IV PAO semi synthetic. As such it still has impurities, which can and will, convert to micro-varnish etc, and it's *viscosity index* is inferior to a 'true full synthetic' type IV. It can NOT cool as well as a true Type IV full synthetic. I recently did a complete flush and filter change, in an upgrade to a Type IV full synthetic ATF. I was going to go with Redline C+, but none was available in my area, and I wanted to do it before the weather here warms up any more than it is now. So I spoke at length with a tech at Amsoil named Kevin who posts on the Bob Is The Oil Guy forum. He carefully explained to me why their "universal" type IV full synthetic ATF, is not snake oil, as I thought it just "had to be". I mean, how could there be such a thing as a "universal" ATF?! OK. Cut to the chase. I had my last A604 race built last year. Alloy spline and planetaries, the best Kevlar clutches, a premium TC and pumps, welded diff pin etc, and I changed from the 'old tech' tube and fin cooler to a stacked plate cooler. I only used MOPAR ATF +3. Still the damned thing would just get too hot during "spirited street driving", and especially in stop and go in town. All of this just left me "sick of the whole thing". I was on the verge of doing the 5 speed manual swap, despite the high cost in time and effort because I was getting the beginning signs of "problems", despite all the best parts and perfect maintenance! Only 8 months after the expensive rebuild, and it was getting a bit harder to move the handle from P to D, and 3rd was not as firm as it really should be. I knew the solenoid valve body was not old or defective, and my PRNDL switch was just fine, as were all the connections "down there". I considered going to MOPAR ATF +4, despite the fact that several Chrysler service reps had different interpretations of the DC TSBs. No one was sure if I even should change to ATF +4, until very recently. At the advice of a trusted performance expert.. I began to do research on the full synthetic alternative. I was a NO WAY JOSE! Only MOPAR ATF +3 is going onto that baby kind of person. But Joe has never given me bad advice, so I decided to look into what ATF +4 really is. The fact the DC has NOT licensed the formula to others, as even FORD has their new ATF, and DC charges $25 a gallon for ATF +4. Well, OK, I love my local MOPAR parts man, and one dealership Service manager, and the dealership owner in my are is way above average. Great people. But face it, many dealerships are "less than trustworthy", and I do not trust Daimler at all, for good reason. So with an open mnd this time. I looked into Amsoil. I *agonized* over it. I read and I read. I talked to others who had switched to type IV PAO full synthetic ATF. Then I did it. I put it in, and let me tell you the STUFF ROCKS! I am so glad that *I did the work*, to sort through all the hype and even well intended misconceptions from loyalists. For example, those who think that Mopar +4 is a true TYPE IV PAO full synthetic, are simply mistaken because it is only a TYPE III semi synthetic. Some people even think that ATF can somehow "sense what kind of trans it is in", and then "switch characteristics to meet the application". Trans fluid is not sentient. It sense nothing. ATF can do no more than behave within it's formulation parameters, and the formulation of a true full synthetic TYPE IV PAO fluid, is greatly superior to any Type III semi synthetic. End of story. My A604/41TE4 now runs 20 degrees F cooler, and shifts faster and firmer. I don't care if it is "supposed to last longer" or not. I do NOT care if I have to change it every 10K miles instead of tmy old 25K change ritual even. I know that any ATF capable of making my SVB function perfectly again, and enable my A604 to run cooler and shift that much better, is going to make my trans axle last a lot longer. All I have to do is change filters and pan fluid religiously, and watch my fluid level. Yeah, it's sort of like before. But I am not "sweating it" anymore, because of the way my TRANS performs now. On a hot day, in stop and go traffic it will no longer gets hot, and that lever easily and smoothly moves from P to D even when I first start my engine, like it did the day it was race rebuilt. OK. Now I am out of here. I am not going to argue irrelevant semantic points, and fend spin from well intended, lovable but misguided loyalists. I have given you good and honest advice. Call the Amsoil people yourself, and at least actually use some logic regarding this issue. In short. Open your mind. I just could not remain silent and let the BS rule on this subject. Amsoil is not snake oil. I am not going to become a distributer, but I have cleared my conscience, and my ht 3.0 MOPAR now rocks even more than it did before. Best wishes to all of you. |
#4
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Hello everybody,
I am new here, and I freely admit I am not an expert on lubricants, or auto trans axles for that matter. I am a die hard FWD MOPAR enthusiast however, and I have an above average understanding of relevant matters to this topic. I am in no way affiliated with either Daimler Chrysler, or any lubricant blender or distributing network. I am merely a private party having experience with the A604/41TE4 auto transaxles. I have read with great interest the debate about ATF +3 and +4, verses Amsoil Type IV 'full synthetic' Universal ATF, and I wish to offer my limited knowledge and personal experience regarding this. I do not care *who* is "right or wrong", and neither do I care much about posting style. The facts are what I am concerned with, and I can only offer my personal experience and limited knowledge because frankly, it appears obvious to me that statistics and fancy numbers hold little power to persuade these days regarding ATF and other lubricants. Really such debates are just arguments driven mainly by emotion, e.g, product and manufacturer loyalty based upon advertising hype and corporate propaganda *spin*. The facts, so far have taken a back seat to the forgoing, regarding the ATF +3 and +4 vs alternatives debate. Most of us are aware that for too long, many if not most Transmission Shops wrongly believe an A604 can handle even Dextron Mercon ATF, as long as a friction modifier is added. Many a sad A604 owner has learned however, that this is simply NOT true. DC has been partly to blame for these misconceptions, because their TSB's on this issue have been until recently, ambiguous and open to interpretation. In fact even now, because of this, many A604 owners are still unsure if ATF +4 is suitable for *their year* of A604. Or whether or not ATF + 4 is really even a 'full synthetic' Type IV PAO ATF, or just a lower grade 'semi synthetic' Type III PAO ATF. I am going to try now, to avoid laying out "facts" in a way which will only provoke an argument. Instead I will offer the following, which I hope will assist you as it did me, to sort out the *corporate spin and advertising hype* from good information. I have gone through two A604's, despite my tendency to to be extremely conscientious about maintenance issues, and I became "absolutely paranoid" about my A604. Religiously checking the ATF level daily, carefully examining the fluid on the stick, watching temp levels on my AutoMeter Trans temp gauge, and reading to learn about this trans axle, even talking face to face with a few real experts. As a result I became convinced that the A604/41TE4, as it is now, is a great design. It is a true marvel of technology. It's true weakness is that existing ATF, even DC's new + 4, is simply not adequate to cool it and keep it free from micro-varnish. Although ATF + 4 is a step in the right direction, it is really a type IV PAO semi synthetic. As such it still has impurities, which can and will, convert to micro-varnish etc, and it's *viscosity index* is inferior to a 'true full synthetic' type IV. It can NOT cool as well as a true Type IV full synthetic. I recently did a complete flush and filter change, in an upgrade to a Type IV full synthetic ATF. I was going to go with Redline C+, but none was available in my area, and I wanted to do it before the weather here warms up any more than it is now. So I spoke at length with a tech at Amsoil named Kevin who posts on the Bob Is The Oil Guy forum. He carefully explained to me why their "universal" type IV full synthetic ATF, is not snake oil, as I thought it just "had to be". I mean, how could there be such a thing as a "universal" ATF?! OK. Cut to the chase. I had my last A604 race built last year. Alloy spline and planetaries, the best Kevlar clutches, a premium TC and pumps, welded diff pin etc, and I changed from the 'old tech' tube and fin cooler to a stacked plate cooler. I only used MOPAR ATF +3. Still the damned thing would just get too hot during "spirited street driving", and especially in stop and go in town. All of this just left me "sick of the whole thing". I was on the verge of doing the 5 speed manual swap, despite the high cost in time and effort because I was getting the beginning signs of "problems", despite all the best parts and perfect maintenance! Only 8 months after the expensive rebuild, and it was getting a bit harder to move the handle from P to D, and 3rd was not as firm as it really should be. I knew the solenoid valve body was not old or defective, and my PRNDL switch was just fine, as were all the connections "down there". I considered going to MOPAR ATF +4, despite the fact that several Chrysler service reps had different interpretations of the DC TSBs. No one was sure if I even should change to ATF +4, until very recently. At the advice of a trusted performance expert.. I began to do research on the full synthetic alternative. I was a NO WAY JOSE! Only MOPAR ATF +3 is going onto that baby kind of person. But Joe has never given me bad advice, so I decided to look into what ATF +4 really is. The fact the DC has NOT licensed the formula to others, as even FORD has their new ATF, and DC charges $25 a gallon for ATF +4. Well, OK, I love my local MOPAR parts man, and one dealership Service manager, and the dealership owner in my are is way above average. Great people. But face it, many dealerships are "less than trustworthy", and I do not trust Daimler at all, for good reason. So with an open mnd this time. I looked into Amsoil. I *agonized* over it. I read and I read. I talked to others who had switched to type IV PAO full synthetic ATF. Then I did it. I put it in, and let me tell you the STUFF ROCKS! I am so glad that *I did the work*, to sort through all the hype and even well intended misconceptions from loyalists. For example, those who think that Mopar +4 is a true TYPE IV PAO full synthetic, are simply mistaken because it is only a TYPE III semi synthetic. Some people even think that ATF can somehow "sense what kind of trans it is in", and then "switch characteristics to meet the application". Trans fluid is not sentient. It sense nothing. ATF can do no more than behave within it's formulation parameters, and the formulation of a true full synthetic TYPE IV PAO fluid, is greatly superior to any Type III semi synthetic. End of story. My A604/41TE4 now runs 20 degrees F cooler, and shifts faster and firmer. I don't care if it is "supposed to last longer" or not. I do NOT care if I have to change it every 10K miles instead of tmy old 25K change ritual even. I know that any ATF capable of making my SVB function perfectly again, and enable my A604 to run cooler and shift that much better, is going to make my trans axle last a lot longer. All I have to do is change filters and pan fluid religiously, and watch my fluid level. Yeah, it's sort of like before. But I am not "sweating it" anymore, because of the way my TRANS performs now. On a hot day, in stop and go traffic it will no longer gets hot, and that lever easily and smoothly moves from P to D even when I first start my engine, like it did the day it was race rebuilt. OK. Now I am out of here. I am not going to argue irrelevant semantic points, and fend spin from well intended, lovable but misguided loyalists. I have given you good and honest advice. Call the Amsoil people yourself, and at least actually use some logic regarding this issue. In short. Open your mind. I just could not remain silent and let the BS rule on this subject. Amsoil is not snake oil. I am not going to become a distributer, but I have cleared my conscience, and my ht 3.0 MOPAR now rocks even more than it did before. Best wishes to all of you. |
#5
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Sorry about the double post. When it didn;t appear, I thought I
accidentally hit reset, instead of post. Please delete the second one. |
#6
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fwd_moparasambuku wrote:
> Sorry about the double post. When it didn;t appear, I thought I > accidentally hit reset, instead of post. > > Please delete the second one. > > > Actually, there were four posts, not too. And you did at best a mediocre job of packaging the AMSOIL "corporate spin" into a post that was supposed to appear to be from an "average Joe" just wanting to do the world a favor. The only thing worse than AMSOIL spam is 4X AMSOIL spam. Try again when you learn something more about both lubricants and posting on usenet. Matt |
#7
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Yes. I see now there were four replies, and not just two. I already
apologized, but just to make you happy. I apologize again. LOL! I also see you can count to four. Please count these also then. 1. I am not a liar. 2. I honestly have nothing to do with amsoil. 3. Cynicism is one thing, but *trolling* may be a better word to describe your post. Go ahead and pay Daimler full synthetic prices for their semi synthetic +4 garbage. It's no skin off my nose. |
#8
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fwd_moparasambuku wrote:
> Yes. I see now there were four replies, and not just two. I already > apologized, but just to make you happy. I apologize again. LOL! > > I also see you can count to four. Please count these also then. > > 1. I am not a liar. Never said you were. Being ignorant doesn't make you a liar. > 2. I honestly have nothing to do with amsoil. Never said you did. > 3. Cynicism is one thing, but *trolling* may be a better word to describe > your post. I was thinking the same of yours, although it may be closer to spam. Matt |
#9
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> Go ahead and pay Daimler full synthetic prices for their semi synthetic +4 > garbage. It's no skin off my nose. Its no skin off your nose when someone's TC clutch sheds its skin due to being immersed in Amsoil spooge either, is it? |
#10
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Yes. I see now there were four replies, and not just two. I already
apologized, but just to make you happy. I apologize again. LOL! I also see you can count to four. Please count these also then. 1. I am not a liar. 2. I honestly have nothing to do with amsoil. 3. Cynicism is one thing, but *trolling* may be a better word to describe your post. Go ahead and pay Daimler full synthetic prices for their semi synthetic +4 garbage. It's no skin off my nose. |
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