Photo radar bill in Calif - will pass if motorists say nothing

> wrote:

>
> "Don Bruder" > wrote in message
> ...

> >
> > As always, it's pure bull**** and government intrusion.
>
>
> Government, to some, is an intrusion.



Government is never an intrusion until they intrude on YOU.

I had to laugh at a local situation recently. A woman on our street was
complaining that some drivers were coming to a slow, rolling near-stop
at a particular stop sign near us. She observed this as a pedestrian,
not as a driver, and it really irked her. She felt strongly enough
about this to start a petition for enhanced police enforcement at this
intersection. The petition worked, and an officer was dispatched there
to arrest offenders.

Guess who got caught, the very next week?

John S. > wrote:

> I can think of a very easy solution to the problem of getting tickets
> from radar triggered cameras - jus stay within the speed limit.

> You did little more than list the bill and encourage people to contact
> the AAA. Maybe you could take the time to tell us why you think that
> enforcing an agreed upon speed limit is wrong.


If you cannot generate enough money using police enforcement with mobile
and stationary radar too bad. Next, they will want to post traffic law
cameras everywhere. Forget your turn signal, bulb out, touch the centerline,
if they can get it on film you pay for it. Once the money starts rolling
in there will be no end to it. Do you think that this is the start of
"Perfect World"??? Considering the proven problems with red light cameras,
yes proven, In Virginia they were removed from service, Local govt's are
just not mature enough to operate them in my opinion...

"Edward Strauss" > wrote in message
...
> John S. > wrote:

> If you cannot generate enough money using police enforcement with mobile
> and stationary radar too bad. Next, they will want to post traffic law
> cameras everywhere. Forget your turn signal, bulb out, touch the
centerline,
> if they can get it on film you pay for it. Once the money starts rolling
> in there will be no end to it. Do you think that this is the start of
> "Perfect World"??? Considering the proven problems with red light
cameras,
> yes proven, In Virginia they were removed from service, Local govt's are
> just not mature enough to operate them in my opinion...

We have exactly the opposite in this little town. The police are invisible
and
asleep. You would have to drive over their feet to get a rise out of them.

I was told that gasoline is too expensive so the city council does not
encourage
their use of police cars to patrol the neighborhoods.

In one case, the police were called because a young person was making
repeated
drug sales out of his car while parked at a local gas station. The 'chief'
responded
that he was too busy to come and 'bust' the guy.

While I don't want a gestapo state, I would like some the police to spend a
little time protecting and serving the public..

"Hugo Schmeisser" > wrote in message
news
>
> If the politicians and the cops refrained from such sneaky tricks, I'd
> be more willing to support your view.

It would have been a sneaky trick if they hadn't posted speed limit
signs.

Edward Strauss wrote:
> John S. > wrote:
>
> > I can think of a very easy solution to the problem of getting tickets
> > from radar triggered cameras - jus stay within the speed limit.
>
> > You did little more than list the bill and encourage people to contact
> > the AAA. Maybe you could take the time to tell us why you think that
> > enforcing an agreed upon speed limit is wrong.
>
>
> If you cannot generate enough money using police enforcement with mobile
> and stationary radar too bad. Next, they will want to post traffic law
> cameras everywhere. Forget your turn signal, bulb out, touch the centerline,
> if they can get it on film you pay for it. Once the money starts rolling
> in there will be no end to it.

Actually, if we obeyed the rules agreed to by the majority there would
be no need for police enforcement now would there. But we will always
have more than our share of idiots that feel they are in posession of
superior driving skills that allow driving 75mph on a crowded freeway,
driving after having a few beers, coasting through a stop sign, driving
with safety equipment out of order, playing chase with his buddies in
traffic, etc. Consequently we will always have a need for police
enforcement of traffic rules. And if we can do it a bit more
efficiently with cameras, lets go for it.

Do you think that this is the start of
> "Perfect World"???

It may not result in a perfect world, but if the cameras cause some
otherwise irresponsible idiot to think twice and slow down to the speed
limit then the rest of us will be the better for it.

> Considering the proven problems with red light cameras,
> yes proven, In Virginia they were removed from service,

> Local govt's are
> just not mature enough to operate them in my opinion...

Since the governments in many areas are several hundred years old, what
level of maturity were you looking for.

> wrote:

>
> "Hugo Schmeisser" > wrote in message
> news
> >
> > If the politicians and the cops refrained from such sneaky tricks,
> > I'd be more willing to support your view.
>
> It would have been a sneaky trick if they hadn't posted speed limit
> signs.



You've not heard of "entrapment"?

"Hugo Schmeisser" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote:
>
> >
> > "Hugo Schmeisser" > wrote in message
> > news
> > >
> > > If the politicians and the cops refrained from such sneaky tricks,
> > > I'd be more willing to support your view.
> >
> > It would have been a sneaky trick if they hadn't posted speed limit
> > signs.
>
>
>
> You've not heard of "entrapment"?

Of course I have. And am very much against it. But, Hugo, if the sign
says 50, how many other ways can you take it??

"Hugo Schmeisser" > wrote in message
...

>
> You've not heard of "entrapment"?

We have some pretty good highways here in Texas. Some are of
quality equal to the autobahn in Germany, and we could easily
sustain very high speed driving on these.

BUT...
the speed limit is unequivocally 65 mph night, 70 mph daytime, for
passenger vehicles. It is clearly posted, and if you wish to exceed
it, the only thing that will stop you is a Texas Highway Patrol unit.

They will usually allow you a 5 mph error factor, but there is no law
that says they must.

Were you entrapped? Try that in court!

We have a couple of shortcomings that the Germans more or less avoid
on the autobahn:
(1) Drivers Education classes are no longer a part of the high school
curriculum (at least in the school districts I am familiar with). Formal
drivers training is not required to take the tests and get your license.
We have a lot of poor drivers on the road.

(2) While we have a state safety inspection law, in fact, many of the
cars are not of a level of maintenance to be driven at high speeds.
Our requirements are fairly low as compared to EU standards.

I'll admit, it is hard as heck to start an 800 mile trip across the state
and
hold to a 70 mph speed limit.

> wrote:

>
> "Hugo Schmeisser" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > "Hugo Schmeisser" > wrote in message
> > > news > > > >
> > > > If the politicians and the cops refrained from such sneaky
> > > > tricks, I'd be more willing to support your view.
> > >
> > > It would have been a sneaky trick if they hadn't posted speed
> > > limit signs.
> >
> >
> >
> > You've not heard of "entrapment"?
>
> Of course I have. And am very much against it. But, Hugo, if the
> sign says 50, how many other ways can you take it??



People are not saints. It is very easy to entice people into breaking a
law if they perceive there to be no harm to themselves and others in
the breach. This is /especially/ so if they also perceive that the law
in question is unfair, or unreasonable.

In order for respectable people to respect the law, the law itself must
first be respectable. I've seen studies that indicate that up to 75% of
the population exceeds the speed limit at one time or another. Do you
think 75% of the population robs banks?

It is even easier to cause people to inadvertently break the law by
making the law un-intuitive, as many speed limits are. If you have to
keep glancing at the gauge on your dashboard to make sure you're going
slowly enough, then there is a disconnect between road design and
posted speed limit.

John S. > wrote:

> Edward Strauss wrote:
> > John S. > wrote:
> >
> > > I can think of a very easy solution to the problem of getting tickets
> > > from radar triggered cameras - jus stay within the speed limit.
> >
> > > You did little more than list the bill and encourage people to contact
> > > the AAA. Maybe you could take the time to tell us why you think that
> > > enforcing an agreed upon speed limit is wrong.
> >
> >
> > If you cannot generate enough money using police enforcement with mobile
> > and stationary radar too bad. Next, they will want to post traffic law
> > cameras everywhere. Forget your turn signal, bulb out, touch the centerline,
> > if they can get it on film you pay for it. Once the money starts rolling
> > in there will be no end to it.

> Actually, if we obeyed the rules agreed to by the majority there would
> be no need for police enforcement now would there. But we will always
> have more than our share of idiots that feel they are in posession of
> superior driving skills that allow driving 75mph on a crowded freeway,
> driving after having a few beers, coasting through a stop sign, driving
> with safety equipment out of order, playing chase with his buddies in
> traffic, etc. Consequently we will always have a need for police
> enforcement of traffic rules. And if we can do it a bit more
> efficiently with cameras, lets go for it.

> Do you think that this is the start of
> > "Perfect World"???

> It may not result in a perfect world, but if the cameras cause some
> otherwise irresponsible idiot to think twice and slow down to the speed
> limit then the rest of us will be the better for it.

> > Considering the proven problems with red light cameras,
> > yes proven, In Virginia they were removed from service,

> > Local govt's are
> > just not mature enough to operate them in my opinion...

> Since the governments in many areas are several hundred years old, what
> level of maturity were you looking for.


The maturity to operate the system for safety instead of profit.