Ford's Future Engine Lineup Goes 1960's?

Seems Detroit is tired of trying to out Japanese the Japanese and
instead are increasing going back to doing it the American way.

Proof:

Dodge's Viper
Dodge's V10s
GM's LS1 and LS2 pushrod V8s
GM's Corvette
Chrysler's 5.7L and 6.0L Hemis
Chrysler 300 Sedan
Ford's Bullett Mustang
Ford's Mach 1 Mustang
Ford's 2005 Mustang
Ford's GT-(40) Supercar

Near misses:

Pontiac's GTO
Mercury's Marauder
Chevy's SSR
Plymouth's Prowler
Ford's T-bird

And now, maybe, this:

From Hemmings:

"Performance junkies having been hearing for years that overhead cam
V-8s are where it's at. But the sheer pulling power of torque is what
performance fans live for, and you don't get monster torque without
pushrods. GM knew it with the LS-series V-8s and Chrysler nailed it
down with its new Hemi V-8. Now we're beginning to hear that Ford may
be seeking to abandon -- or at least augment -- its recent modular
SOHC v-8 configuration: Informed sources at Ford tell us that a new
pushrod 6.0L engine, code-named Hurricane, is on the drawing board
now. It's still a long way off -- sources say 2008 or 2009 -- if, in
fact, it even arrives at all. Hurricane is said to be in the
competition with another larger SOHC-type engine, and a decision will
be made to choose one over the other in the coming months. The bad
news: These engines would be introduced into the ever-heavier F-series
truck line, possibly setting up another two-V-8 format as Ford
maintained for years (i.e., FE/385, Windsor/Cleveland, etc). The good
news: There's no reason (yet) why Hurricane couldn't be integrated
into a car line (or two) somewhere done the line."

NoOp Comment: Yeah, a carline like Mustang!!!!

Patrick
'93 Cobra
'83 LTD

Pushrods DONT make torque. Never have, never will.

Cubic inches, cams, intake tuning DO make torque.

LJH
95GT



"Patrick" > wrote in message
om...
> Seems Detroit is tired of trying to out Japanese the Japanese and
> instead are increasing going back to doing it the American way.
>
> Proof:
>
> Dodge's Viper
> Dodge's V10s
> GM's LS1 and LS2 pushrod V8s
> GM's Corvette
> Chrysler's 5.7L and 6.0L Hemis
> Chrysler 300 Sedan
> Ford's Bullett Mustang
> Ford's Mach 1 Mustang
> Ford's 2005 Mustang
> Ford's GT-(40) Supercar
>
> Near misses:
>
> Pontiac's GTO
> Mercury's Marauder
> Chevy's SSR
> Plymouth's Prowler
> Ford's T-bird
>
> And now, maybe, this:
>
> From Hemmings:
>
> "Performance junkies having been hearing for years that overhead cam
> V-8s are where it's at. But the sheer pulling power of torque is what
> performance fans live for, and you don't get monster torque without
> pushrods. GM knew it with the LS-series V-8s and Chrysler nailed it
> down with its new Hemi V-8. Now we're beginning to hear that Ford may
> be seeking to abandon -- or at least augment -- its recent modular
> SOHC v-8 configuration: Informed sources at Ford tell us that a new
> pushrod 6.0L engine, code-named Hurricane, is on the drawing board
> now. It's still a long way off -- sources say 2008 or 2009 -- if, in
> fact, it even arrives at all. Hurricane is said to be in the
> competition with another larger SOHC-type engine, and a decision will
> be made to choose one over the other in the coming months. The bad
> news: These engines would be introduced into the ever-heavier F-series
> truck line, possibly setting up another two-V-8 format as Ford
> maintained for years (i.e., FE/385, Windsor/Cleveland, etc). The good
> news: There's no reason (yet) why Hurricane couldn't be integrated
> into a car line (or two) somewhere done the line."
>
> NoOp Comment: Yeah, a carline like Mustang!!!!
>
> Patrick
> '93 Cobra
> '83 LTD

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:47:18 GMT, "Larry Hepinstall"
> wrote:

>Pushrods DONT make torque. Never have, never will.
>
>Cubic inches, cams, intake tuning DO make torque.
>

yeah.. And what's wrong with the latest Supercharged enignes Ford has
thrown out ? (GT, Cobra, Lightning) ?? Instant Torque.

Remove NO-SPAM from email address when replying

I was wondering why it mattered. If anything, you'd think the more
instantaneous opening of the valve due to less distance for the cam's energy
to travel would help. Unless the cam could be more radical if it were in
the block as opposed to on the heads...

Sure, the 5.0 had more torque down low, but it also had cubes on the 4.6,
and the new 4.6s are doing just fine without pushrods.

JS

"Larry Hepinstall" > wrote in message
...
> Pushrods DONT make torque. Never have, never will.
>
> Cubic inches, cams, intake tuning DO make torque.
>
> LJH
> 95GT
>
>
>
> "Patrick" > wrote in message
> om...
>> Seems Detroit is tired of trying to out Japanese the Japanese and
>> instead are increasing going back to doing it the American way.
>>
>> Proof:
>>
>> Dodge's Viper
>> Dodge's V10s
>> GM's LS1 and LS2 pushrod V8s
>> GM's Corvette
>> Chrysler's 5.7L and 6.0L Hemis
>> Chrysler 300 Sedan
>> Ford's Bullett Mustang
>> Ford's Mach 1 Mustang
>> Ford's 2005 Mustang
>> Ford's GT-(40) Supercar
>>
>> Near misses:
>>
>> Pontiac's GTO
>> Mercury's Marauder
>> Chevy's SSR
>> Plymouth's Prowler
>> Ford's T-bird
>>
>> And now, maybe, this:
>>
>> From Hemmings:
>>
>> "Performance junkies having been hearing for years that overhead cam
>> V-8s are where it's at. But the sheer pulling power of torque is what
>> performance fans live for, and you don't get monster torque without
>> pushrods. GM knew it with the LS-series V-8s and Chrysler nailed it
>> down with its new Hemi V-8. Now we're beginning to hear that Ford may
>> be seeking to abandon -- or at least augment -- its recent modular
>> SOHC v-8 configuration: Informed sources at Ford tell us that a new
>> pushrod 6.0L engine, code-named Hurricane, is on the drawing board
>> now. It's still a long way off -- sources say 2008 or 2009 -- if, in
>> fact, it even arrives at all. Hurricane is said to be in the
>> competition with another larger SOHC-type engine, and a decision will
>> be made to choose one over the other in the coming months. The bad
>> news: These engines would be introduced into the ever-heavier F-series
>> truck line, possibly setting up another two-V-8 format as Ford
>> maintained for years (i.e., FE/385, Windsor/Cleveland, etc). The good
>> news: There's no reason (yet) why Hurricane couldn't be integrated
>> into a car line (or two) somewhere done the line."
>>
>> NoOp Comment: Yeah, a carline like Mustang!!!!
>>
>> Patrick
>> '93 Cobra
>> '83 LTD
>
>

"Larry Hepinstall" > wrote in message >...
> Pushrods DONT make torque. Never have, never will.
>
> Cubic inches, cams, intake tuning DO make torque.
>

Actually, high VE at low rpms makes what everyone wants to call
"torque". And the items you mention are part of making high VE at low
rpm. Pressure does it just as well, too.

My apparently wimpy 281 makes 500 ft-lbs by 2500 rpms. I guess that's
not low end enough nor enough low end for some folks :shrug:

[snip]

Dan
2003 Cobra convertible
With some stuff and things

(Patrick) wrote in message . com>...
> Seems Detroit is tired of trying to out Japanese the Japanese and
> instead are increasing going back to doing it the American way.
>
> Proof:
>
> Dodge's Viper
> Dodge's V10s
> GM's LS1 and LS2 pushrod V8s
> GM's Corvette
> Chrysler's 5.7L and 6.0L Hemis
> Chrysler 300 Sedan
> Ford's Bullett Mustang
> Ford's Mach 1 Mustang
> Ford's 2005 Mustang
> Ford's GT-(40) Supercar
>
> Near misses:
>
> Pontiac's GTO
> Mercury's Marauder
> Chevy's SSR
> Plymouth's Prowler
> Ford's T-bird
>
> And now, maybe, this:
>
> From Hemmings:
>
> "Performance junkies having been hearing for years that overhead cam
> V-8s are where it's at. But the sheer pulling power of torque is what
> performance fans live for, and you don't get monster torque without
> pushrods. GM knew it with the LS-series V-8s and Chrysler nailed it
> down with its new Hemi V-8. Now we're beginning to hear that Ford may
> be seeking to abandon -- or at least augment -- its recent modular
> SOHC v-8 configuration: Informed sources at Ford tell us that a new
> pushrod 6.0L engine, code-named Hurricane, is on the drawing board
> now. It's still a long way off -- sources say 2008 or 2009 -- if, in
> fact, it even arrives at all. Hurricane is said to be in the
> competition with another larger SOHC-type engine, and a decision will
> be made to choose one over the other in the coming months. The bad
> news: These engines would be introduced into the ever-heavier F-series
> truck line, possibly setting up another two-V-8 format as Ford
> maintained for years (i.e., FE/385, Windsor/Cleveland, etc). The good
> news: There's no reason (yet) why Hurricane couldn't be integrated
> into a car line (or two) somewhere done the line."
>
> NoOp Comment: Yeah, a carline like Mustang!!!!
>

It won't happen in the Mustang line except for concepts. The OHC
configuration is here to stay for at least another decade and why not?
You can get several hundred easy horsepower out of them along with
gobs of low end torque. Why would Ford bother changing?

Dan
2003 Cobra convertible
With some stuff and things

(Dan) wrote in message . com>...

> It won't happen in the Mustang line except for concepts. The OHC
> configuration is here to stay for at least another decade and why not?
> You can get several hundred easy horsepower out of them along with
> gobs of low end torque. Why would Ford bother changing?

Packaging and cost.

GM's LS2 and Chrysler's Hemi are physically smaller than Ford's
modulars and probably much smaller than a bigger [6-liter] OHC motor.
Plus, GM and Chrysler don't have to resort to bolting on an expensive,
hard to package supercharger that adds maintenance and requires
heavy-duty (blower proof] internals. When Ford adds it all up, IMO, I
think they'll opt for a big, displacement-on-demand,
normally-aspirated pushrod.

Patrick
'93 Cobra
'83 LTD

> > Seems Detroit is tired of trying to out Japanese the Japanese and
> > instead are increasing going back to doing it the American way.
> >
> > Proof:
> >
> > Dodge's Viper
> > Dodge's V10s
> > GM's LS1 and LS2 pushrod V8s
> > GM's Corvette
> > Chrysler's 5.7L and 6.0L Hemis
> > Chrysler 300 Sedan
> > Ford's Bullett Mustang
> > Ford's Mach 1 Mustang
> > Ford's 2005 Mustang
> > Ford's GT-(40) Supercar
> >
> > Near misses:
> >
> > Pontiac's GTO
> > Mercury's Marauder
> > Chevy's SSR
> > Plymouth's Prowler
> > Ford's T-bird
> >
> > And now, maybe, this:
> >
> > From Hemmings:
> >
> > "Performance junkies having been hearing for years that overhead cam
> > V-8s are where it's at. But the sheer pulling power of torque is what
> > performance fans live for, and you don't get monster torque without
> > pushrods. GM knew it with the LS-series V-8s and Chrysler nailed it
> > down with its new Hemi V-8. Now we're beginning to hear that Ford may
> > be seeking to abandon -- or at least augment -- its recent modular
> > SOHC v-8 configuration: Informed sources at Ford tell us that a new
> > pushrod 6.0L engine, code-named Hurricane, is on the drawing board
> > now. It's still a long way off -- sources say 2008 or 2009 -- if, in
> > fact, it even arrives at all. Hurricane is said to be in the
> > competition with another larger SOHC-type engine, and a decision will
> > be made to choose one over the other in the coming months. The bad
> > news: These engines would be introduced into the ever-heavier F-series
> > truck line, possibly setting up another two-V-8 format as Ford
> > maintained for years (i.e., FE/385, Windsor/Cleveland, etc). The good
> > news: There's no reason (yet) why Hurricane couldn't be integrated
> > into a car line (or two) somewhere done the line."
> >
> > NoOp Comment: Yeah, a carline like Mustang!!!!

(Patrick) wrote in message . com>...
> (Dan) wrote in message . com>...
>
> > It won't happen in the Mustang line except for concepts. The OHC
> > configuration is here to stay for at least another decade and why not?
> > You can get several hundred easy horsepower out of them along with
> > gobs of low end torque. Why would Ford bother changing?
>
> Packaging and cost.
>
> GM's LS2 and Chrysler's Hemi are physically smaller than Ford's
> modulars and probably much smaller than a bigger [6-liter] OHC motor.
> Plus, GM and Chrysler don't have to resort to bolting on an expensive,
> hard to package supercharger that adds maintenance and requires
> heavy-duty (blower proof] internals. When Ford adds it all up, IMO, I
> think they'll opt for a big, displacement-on-demand,
> normally-aspirated pushrod.
>

Interesting points. However, every V8 powered car in the Ford lineup
uses Modular motors. Every new gas powered truck has a Triton 24
valve, VVT motor now, all the way up to the V10. Ford is committed in
every large motor'd line to the Modular family and appears to remain
so, especially since the 3 valve, VVT is working pretty good for the
moment. This means more cost for such a swtich, not less, since
several very large production processes would be affected.

The 3 valve head is actually narrower than the Modular SOHC head by a
fraction and that's how they've addressed packaging right now. Ford
believes in variable cam timing over variable displacement. The DoD
systems are proving to provide increased fuel economy only on the
highway and not in city driving so it addresses only half the issue,
especially for trucks.

Hey, it could happen. In ten years or so assuming the VVT system fails
to perform for some reason. Unless something dramatic happens to Ford
management, not without possibility, I don't see it. I'm one that
doesn't want it either so I'll be keeping an eye out .

Dan
2003 Cobra convertible
With some stuff and things

I wonder if the packaging issues with Ford's mod engines is really the
bore/stroke/cylinder spacing rather than them being OHC (at least in the SOHC
setup). In other words, what package dimensions would a OHC 302 have if
destroked to 4.6L (to be fair). The deck height would no doubt be less, but
the bore would offset some of that in the width measurement. It would be
significantly longer. But longer in a north-south install might not matter. I
don't know.
Its interesting to recall the design mantra from the early 80's. Smaller
displacement, OHC with greater than 2 valves per, smaller bore/stroke ratio,
shorter engine length to make it FWD friendly. Is the 4.6 even used in a FWD
Ford vehicle now?

"DriveSpy" > wrote in message
...
>I wonder if the packaging issues with Ford's mod engines is really the
> bore/stroke/cylinder spacing rather than them being OHC (at least in the
> SOHC
> setup). In other words, what package dimensions would a OHC 302 have if
> destroked to 4.6L (to be fair). The deck height would no doubt be less,
> but
> the bore would offset some of that in the width measurement. It would be
> significantly longer. But longer in a north-south install might not
> matter. I
> don't know.

Interesting thought.

> Its interesting to recall the design mantra from the early 80's.
> Smaller
> displacement, OHC with greater than 2 valves per, smaller bore/stroke
> ratio,
> shorter engine length to make it FWD friendly. Is the 4.6 even used in a
> FWD
> Ford vehicle now?

Yeah, it fits the mantra but it's target was not small cars originally. The
Modular motor was originally designed to fit into the Lincoln Town Car
chassis (1991, DOHC) with thoughts towards trucks and the other large RWD
sedans that were using the Windsor 5.0L. I don't believe Ford ever intended
the V8+ Mod family for FWD use since it never used the other v8s for that
purpose. I'm sure they may have considered it just because designers try to
consider as much as they can in that business, but the package didn't need
to be all that small because the primary targets were pretty big.
--
Dan
2003 Cobra convertible
With some stuff and things