2005 Civic SI PCV valve

On Jun 6, 8:44 pm, Tegger > wrote:
> Josh > wrote groups.com:
>
>
>
> > Why block off both hoses? why not only the hose going to the intake
> > tube? Where does the other side pick up clean air?
>
> One hose goes from the air cleaner tube to the valve. Those other hose goes
> from the valve to the manifold.
>
> A leak at either hose introduces unfiltered air into the intake. One allows
> it before the throttle body, the other after the throttle body. Either way,
> this is air that will never pass through the air filter.
>
> My advice is to get rid of that rice-boy crap unless you're only keeping
> the car for a few years. Engines live longest with factory parts.
>
>
>
> > I have oil anaylisis run on my oil. If any silicon is getting thru
> > the air filter system, it will show up on this. Only problems I've had
> > with after market filters were the "wet" type that is oiled and even
> > then, they will go quite a few miles before dirt getting past. The
> > only way to tell if this is happening is to have your oil anaylized.
> > I'm not worried based on past experience -- over 20 years.
>
> Cool. It's your ride.
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Tegger, don't know how many years you've been driving, but I've been
at it quite a few. Done just a few mods along the way and have never
lost an engine due to any of them. (have never lost one period) if the
Intake air system is sealed and the air filter is changed like it
should be, one should never have to worry about going to an
aftermarket filter. I would worry much more about a cheap replacement
air or oil
filter than anything else. Like I said above, oil anaylsis doesn't
lie. If you have dirt getting past your filter it will show up in the
oil when it goes thru the anaylisis procedure. It will also show up
any engine parts that are wearing abnormally as well as the condition
of oil and how much to go between changes. My 4 runner just went over
30,000 on the same oil and diesel truck over 24,000. Oil was still in
very good shape and could be continued to be used. Silicon and
moisture (from short trips) was just starting to show up in the
4runner , so oil was changed in that. Truck has 160,000+ miles and
4runner 154,000 miles. The only extra oil I have used in either one is
when I change the oil filter and top that off , about every 7,000
miles. The truck has an aftermarket air filter on it.
I think you worry too much. Just keep the system tight and set back
and drive!

Thanks for the info, I'm still not sure why the engine needs "extra"
cold air when the engine is cold. That goes against everything I've
known, working on engines. The reason Carburators have chokes is too
actually cut off some of the air supply when cold (choke) and to run
the engine rich until warm up. I don't see why an injected engine
would be any different.

Josh > wrote in
s.com:


>
> Thanks for the info, I'm still not sure why the engine needs "extra"
> cold air when the engine is cold. That goes against everything I've
> known, working on engines. The reason Carburators have chokes is too
> actually cut off some of the air supply when cold (choke) and to run
> the engine rich until warm up. I don't see why an injected engine
> would be any different.
>
>


You've been driving for "quite a few" years and you don't know the
difference between how a carburetor delivers fuel and how a port-FI system
does it?

Hey, you can put whatever kind of filter you want on your car. It's your
ride as I said.

And I'm not even remotely impressed with you claims of 160K miles or
whatever. In 1970 that would have been remarkable. These days that's
chicken feed.

When your car exceeds twice that figure with the un-rebuilt original engine
(still passing emissions) with acceptable oil consumption, then let me
know.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Tegger > wrote in
:


>
> When your car exceeds twice that figure with the un-rebuilt original
> engine (still passing emissions) with acceptable oil consumption, then
> let me know.
>


BTW, my old 'Teg, bought new by me in 1991, is set to exceed 320K miles
with the original un-rebuilt engine, in about a year and a half. Got about
289K right now.

Top that, Mr. Hydro-lock.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Josh wrote:
> On Jun 6, 8:42 am, jim beam > wrote:
>> Josh wrote:
>>> I just bought a2005civicSI (V-tech) that had the orginal engine
>>> changed out due to hydroloc. While putting on a new AEM air filter
>>> assembly,
>> wait up. do you know what hydro-lock is? do you know how it happens?
>> do you want it to happen to you?
>>
>>
>>
>>> I noticed a small rubber line from the orginal air tube
>>> going over to the top of a screwed in fitting on the water ? housing.
>>> The outlet was broken on the fitting. A line also went out the other
>>> side of the fitting toward the bottom of the intake manifold.
>>> The screwed in fitting with the two outlets needs to be replaced.
>>> What is this fitting ? PCV valve?
>>> Thanks!!- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Yes, it happens when the intake is under water. This happened in a
> flash flood. I am in Pheonix and that is not much of a problem here.
> The new style AEM intake is actually a little higher than the stock
> one was.
>
don't be so sure.

if a vehicle hydrolocks due to immersion, it's easy to cure - simply
remove the plugs and crank the motor to expel the water. if the motor
had to be replaced, it was almost certainly due to ingestion of water
while the motor was running causing breakage. and that means
aftermarket air intake - they're very prone to this. and you're just
about to install one yourself. can /you/ afford to buy a new motor as
well? insurance won't cover it if you've modified the intake and it
allows ingestion.

> You've been driving for "quite a few" years and you don't know the
> difference between how a carburetor delivers fuel and how a port-FI system
> does it?
>
> Hey, you can put whatever kind of filter you want on your car. It's your
> ride as I said.
>
> And I'm not even remotely impressed with you claims of 160K miles or
> whatever. In 1970 that would have been remarkable. These days that's
> chicken feed.
>
> When your car exceeds twice that figure with the un-rebuilt original engine
> (still passing emissions) with acceptable oil consumption, then let me
> know.
>
> --
> Tegger
I was just giving you the miliage on two of the three I presently
own. One of my last cars, a 1982 Mercedes 300D had 327,000 miles on it
when I sold it. Orginal engine, used a quart of oil every 4,000 miles,
most of that leaking out of front seal.
Like I said, I'm not too worried about the AEM air filter. Already see
a difference in mileage for the better.

> You've been driving for "quite a few" years and you don't know the
> difference between how a carburetor delivers fuel and how a port-FI system
> does it?

Tegger,
Can you please explain why this fuel injected engine needs extra cold
air at
start up?

Josh > wrote in
ups.com:

>> You've been driving for "quite a few" years and you don't know the
>> difference between how a carburetor delivers fuel and how a port-FI
>> system does it?
>
> Tegger,
> Can you please explain why this fuel injected engine needs extra cold
> air at start up?
>


----
A carbureted engine, for the purposes of comparison:

A carburetor can only deliver fuel if there is a pressure difference
(vacuum) between its venturis and the ambient air. No difference, no
fuel flow. Throttle plates and chokes are there to provide vacuum for
the venturis, where the fuel outlets are.

Also, the carb is located far from the valve head, with long, cold
manifold runners in between. A large amount of fuel condenses on the
manifold walls and on combustion chamber walls when cold, so you need
lots of fuel to ensure that enough reaches the combustion chamber to
start the car.

The only way of ensuring extra fuel with a carburetor is to provide lots
of suction, hence the use of a choke plate.

A big downside of all that vacuum is that it's harder for the starter to
turn the engine over, and at just the time when you need the most
cranking effort.

-----
A port-fuel injected engine, on the other hand:

Is fed with pressurized fuel, so vacuum is not needed. There is less
condensation on manifold walls since the injectors are located just an
inch or so above the valve head.

However, combustion will still be somewhat inefficient until the engine
warms up, since fuel still wants to condense on the combustion chamber
walls, so extra fuel is still needed on startup. Since the computer
finely controls fuel flow, it can precisely mix the air and fuel for
better starting, unlike a carb which _must_ feed a very rich mixture.

This means the engine's controls are set up to feed extra fuel AND air
on a cold start. Correct mixture (rather than overly rich) means faster
cold starting and lower cold emissions.

Finally, the absence of a choke plate and the presence of the auxiliary
air inputs greatly reduces pumping losses, so it's much easier for the
starter to turn the engine.

Most auxiliary air is supplied by the IAC, which opens extra wide on a
cold start.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

> This means the engine's controls are set up to feed extra fuel AND air
> on a cold start. Correct mixture (rather than overly rich) means faster
> cold starting and lower cold emissions.
>
> Finally, the absence of a choke plate and the presence of the auxiliary
> air inputs greatly reduces pumping losses, so it's much easier for the
> starter to turn the engine.
>
> Most auxiliary air is supplied by the IAC, which opens extra wide on a
> cold start.
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQwww.tegger.com/hondafaq/

I have both tubes blocked off. Can't tell any difference at startup.
Maybe this is designed for cold climates? Thanks for the info, I'm
going to find more info on it as it sure has my curosity up as to why
this valve set up is needed at all unless it's just a cold climate
issue.

Also for any following this thread, here is some info from AEM's
website on air bypass valve. I'm using their new V2 filter. It is
almost like a short ram in that it is placed in the same area as the
stock honda filter housing.

Q: When should I use an Air Bypass Valve?
A: The AEM Bypass Valve protects the engine from ingesting water and
hydro-locking if the filter becomes submerged in water. Hydro locking
occurs when the end of the inlet pipe is submerged in water and the
water is sucked into the engine. Driving the vehicle in rainy
conditions is not enough to cause a problem unless the vehicle
submerges enough that the inlet end of the pipe is immersed in water.
Rain impingement on the filter will not cause a hydro lock condition.

The distance of the filter from the road dictates the level of water
that can cause damage. This distance varies with the vehicle ride
height, which is why there are no published numbers for this
measurement. We suggest taking this measurement and keeping it in a
log book, so that in the event you encounter deep water you will know
what your maximum allowable depth is before potential submersion of
the inlet pipe.

All AEM Cold Air Intake installations retain the factory splash shield
(fender liner) for filter protection and performance. Removal of
splash shield actually deteriorates performance by allowing air heated
by the pavement to enter the filter and negates any positive pressure
created in the air filter area when the vehicle is in motion.

There are some instances where there is not enough room around the
inlet pipe for adequate clearance of an Air Bypass Valve. In these
instances, we recommend installing a Short Ram system if water
ingestion is a concern.

More info for any following this thread. This is from the AEM website
(I'm using thier new V2 series, sets in the same place as the stock
Honda
filter)
http://www.aempower.com/Faqs.aspx?CategoryID=20

Q: When should I use an Air Bypass Valve?
A: The AEM Bypass Valve protects the engine from ingesting water and
hydro-locking if the filter becomes submerged in water. Hydro locking
occurs when the end of the inlet pipe is submerged in water and the
water is sucked into the engine. Driving the vehicle in rainy
conditions is not enough to cause a problem unless the vehicle
submerges enough that the inlet end of the pipe is immersed in water.
Rain impingement on the filter will not cause a hydro lock condition.

The distance of the filter from the road dictates the level of water
that can cause damage. This distance varies with the vehicle ride
height, which is why there are no published numbers for this
measurement. We suggest taking this measurement and keeping it in a
log book, so that in the event you encounter deep water you will know
what your maximum allowable depth is before potential submersion of
the inlet pipe.

All AEM Cold Air Intake installations retain the factory splash shield
(fender liner) for filter protection and performance. Removal of
splash shield actually deteriorates performance by allowing air heated
by the pavement to enter the filter and negates any positive pressure
created in the air filter area when the vehicle is in motion.

There are some instances where there is not enough room around the
inlet pipe for adequate clearance of an Air Bypass Valve. In these
instances, we recommend installing a Short Ram system if water
ingestion is a concern.