Brakes squeal!!!!

I have a '99' Intrepid. I had the rotors turned last year and they rusted
and then"peeled" a layer off. Not sure I understand why, I have never had
this happen before. Anyway, I replaced rotors on the front and installed new
"anti-squeal" ceramic pads. Well, they squeal at low speeds and when making
a right turn, the squeal is louder from the left front. I wanted the ceramic
pads to cut down on the dark colored dust that accumulates on the wheels.
Anyone have this problem that was able to make the ceramic pads work without
squeal?

Thanks, Dan

Dan wrote:
> I have a '99' Intrepid. I had the rotors turned last year and they rusted
> and then"peeled" a layer off. Not sure I understand why, I have never had
> this happen before. Anyway, I replaced rotors on the front and installed new
> "anti-squeal" ceramic pads. Well, they squeal at low speeds and when making
> a right turn, the squeal is louder from the left front. I wanted the ceramic
> pads to cut down on the dark colored dust that accumulates on the wheels.
> Anyone have this problem that was able to make the ceramic pads work without
> squeal?

I used a set of ceramics on my '99 Concorde (same car mechanically)
without any squeal at all.

Not sure what you mean by a layer of rust peeling off - unless you're
talking about areas (like the rotor vents) that don't get any wear -
yeah - they will get a heavy scale rust that will flake off - that is
normal. I take it you don't mean that the wear (pad contact) surface
actually had metal peel off - that would be highly unusual.

Now, about the squeal - go to this thread on www.dodgeintrepid.net
forums: http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/...ad.php?t=52011
Scroll down to the 4th post - that's mine (I post there as "Peva"). You
will see a description of what the problem could be including a photo of
the part (rotor shield) to look for that could be the problem. Several
people on this newsgroup and on that site have found that that was
indeed the problem on their LH car when they had a persistent brake
squeal that they couldn't pin down. It isn't always the problem - it
might very well be the pads. It's even money that your problem is the
rotor shield rubbing the rotor and not the pads - you probably
inadvertently bent one when you worked on the brakes the last time.

Post back with what you find out.

BTW - what pads are you using? I have a reason for asking.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

On Thu, 26 May 2005 20:39:58 -0400, Bill Putney >
wrote:

>Dan wrote:
>> I have a '99' Intrepid. I had the rotors turned last year and they rusted
>> and then"peeled" a layer off. Not sure I understand why, I have never had
>> this happen before. Anyway, I replaced rotors on the front and installed new
>> "anti-squeal" ceramic pads. Well, they squeal at low speeds and when making
>> a right turn, the squeal is louder from the left front. I wanted the ceramic
>> pads to cut down on the dark colored dust that accumulates on the wheels.
>> Anyone have this problem that was able to make the ceramic pads work without
>> squeal?
>
>I used a set of ceramics on my '99 Concorde (same car mechanically)
>without any squeal at all.
>
>Not sure what you mean by a layer of rust peeling off - unless you're
>talking about areas (like the rotor vents) that don't get any wear -
>yeah - they will get a heavy scale rust that will flake off - that is
>normal. I take it you don't mean that the wear (pad contact) surface
>actually had metal peel off - that would be highly unusual.

Not unusual at all here in the "rust belt" Major cause of brake
problems is pitting/flaking od rotor friction surfaces. Particularly
bad with "iron metallic" brake pads. Not as bad with brass, and almost
unheard of with carbon.
When we had asbestos pads, the problem was virtually unheard of.
>
>Now, about the squeal - go to this thread on www.dodgeintrepid.net
>forums: http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/...ad.php?t=52011
>Scroll down to the 4th post - that's mine (I post there as "Peva"). You
>will see a description of what the problem could be including a photo of
>the part (rotor shield) to look for that could be the problem. Several
>people on this newsgroup and on that site have found that that was
>indeed the problem on their LH car when they had a persistent brake
>squeal that they couldn't pin down. It isn't always the problem - it
>might very well be the pads. It's even money that your problem is the
>rotor shield rubbing the rotor and not the pads - you probably
>inadvertently bent one when you worked on the brakes the last time.
>
>Post back with what you find out.

Not sure about the last few years, but it used to be if the brakes did
not squeal, chances were pretty good you were driving something other
than a Chrysler!!
>
>BTW - what pads are you using? I have a reason for asking.
>
>Bill Putney
>(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
>adddress with the letter 'x')

"Bill Putney" > wrote in message
...
> Dan wrote:
>> I have a '99' Intrepid. I had the rotors turned last year and they rusted
>> and then"peeled" a layer off. Not sure I understand why, I have never had
>> this happen before. Anyway, I replaced rotors on the front and installed
>> new "anti-squeal" ceramic pads. Well, they squeal at low speeds and when
>> making a right turn, the squeal is louder from the left front. I wanted
>> the ceramic pads to cut down on the dark colored dust that accumulates on
>> the wheels. Anyone have this problem that was able to make the ceramic
>> pads work without squeal?
>
> I used a set of ceramics on my '99 Concorde (same car mechanically)
> without any squeal at all.
>
> Not sure what you mean by a layer of rust peeling off - unless you're
> talking about areas (like the rotor vents) that don't get any wear -
> yeah - they will get a heavy scale rust that will flake off - that is
> normal. I take it you don't mean that the wear (pad contact) surface
> actually had metal peel off - that would be highly unusual.

Yep, actual pad contact area. When NAPA's shop turned the rotors, they used
a pattern I have never seen before. I just assumed it was the newest way to
turn them, so not much thought. Now, I am wondering if the real tight cross
hatch pattern was too close and/or deep and rust was able to build up and
eventually peel off a "layer" of steel. I first thought the rotors had
warpped, as that is what it felt like when braking.

>
> Now, about the squeal - go to this thread on www.dodgeintrepid.net forums:
> http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/...ad.php?t=52011
> Scroll down to the 4th post - that's mine (I post there as "Peva"). You
> will see a description of what the problem could be including a photo of
> the part (rotor shield) to look for that could be the problem. Several
> people on this newsgroup and on that site have found that that was indeed
> the problem on their LH car when they had a persistent brake squeal that
> they couldn't pin down. It isn't always the problem - it might very well
> be the pads. It's even money that your problem is the rotor shield
> rubbing the rotor and not the pads - you probably inadvertently bent one
> when you worked on the brakes the last time.
>
> Post back with what you find out.

Sure will. Never thought about the sheild, just assumed the new pads.

>
> BTW - what pads are you using? I have a reason for asking.


Bought Pads and rotors at AutoZone. They were that only shop here who had
them in stock. The pads are Morse Ceramic.

>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> adddress with the letter 'x')

Autozone sells "nice" Chinese rotors. Next time mail order a set of Brembo's
from Tire Rack. If it's not the shield, check that they but lube or anti
noise compound on the back of the pads and on the pins and other contact
areas.

Richard.

Richard wrote:
> ...If it's not the shield, check that they but lube or anti
> noise compound on the back of the pads and on the pins and other contact
> areas.

Good point about checking for anti-noise goop. I always just use
silicone grease for that.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

Dan wrote:

> I have a '99' Intrepid. I had the rotors turned last year and they rusted
> and then"peeled" a layer off. Not sure I understand why, I have never had
> this happen before. Anyway, I replaced rotors on the front and installed new
> "anti-squeal" ceramic pads. Well, they squeal at low speeds and when making
> a right turn, the squeal is louder from the left front. I wanted the ceramic
> pads to cut down on the dark colored dust that accumulates on the wheels.
> Anyone have this problem that was able to make the ceramic pads work without
> squeal?

Dan, I noticed the same problem about 2 years or so ago on my 99 Intrepid.
(search on Intrepid brake subway squeal) I would hear squeaking noises,
especially after wet days. Eventually I traced the problem to the heat shield
on the inside of the front rotors. Apparently they are very close to the rotor
when installed at the factory. Over time the metal rusts a little, it picks up
small debris, etc. until the rotor is contacted, causing the noise. The noise
is most noticeable on a side when turning in the opposite direction--e.g. a
sharp left turn would make the right side sing.

The fix for me was to carefully bend the shield farther away from the rotor. I
used thin cardboard to protect the rotors while carefully bending it with a
screwdriver, then sliding cardboard in the cap to clean out all the crap. I
wouldn't remove the shield because it protects the steering knuckles from the
heat of the wheel bearings and the brakes.

Sometimes I do hear a squeaking noise after rainy days that appears to come from
the rear wheels but who knows. I suspect it is caused by a thin layer of rust
somewhere. Since my vehicle is still covered by service contract, I will ask a
dealership soon about some other minor noises (I think) I've been hearing from
the front end.

wrote:

>
> Not sure about the last few years, but it used to be if the brakes did
> not squeal, chances were pretty good you were driving something other
> than a Chrysler!!

That's just an asinine comment. The braking systems used by Ford, GM,
and Chrysler ALL come from the same set of vendors, mainly Kelsey-Hayes
and Bendix. And many foreign car brake systems (especially Japanese)
are virtually identical, even when built by other vendors. I've heard
squealing brakes from every major brand of vehicle, its extremely
common. The cure is to install the pads properly with all the
anti-rattle clips and with backing adhesive ("Brake Quiet" type
compounds, usually supplied with the pads but also available in larger
bottles). Gotta CLEAN the caliper piston and anvil surfaces before
applying the stuff or it won't work.

Morse is located in Chicago. In the write ups I read, their pads are rated
well. This is not a high performance car (my wife drives it), so I was/am
not in the market for $100.00 set of pads. I do watch what I buy from
AutoZone, these pads break well, better than the ones I bought at NAPA and
paid more for, that died with my rotors after <9 months of use. And, I did
apply a noise compound to the pads. I will be looking at the shield
Saturday, I'll post the results.

Dan

"Richard" > wrote in message
...
> Autozone sells "nice" Chinese rotors. Next time mail order a set of
> Brembo's from Tire Rack. If it's not the shield, check that they but lube
> or anti noise compound on the back of the pads and on the pins and other
> contact areas.
>
> Richard.
>

Thanks, I am going to tear it down and look at it Saturday. I'll post back.

"Greg Houston" > wrote in message
...
> Dan wrote:
>
>> I have a '99' Intrepid. I had the rotors turned last year and they rusted
>> and then"peeled" a layer off. Not sure I understand why, I have never had
>> this happen before. Anyway, I replaced rotors on the front and installed
>> new
>> "anti-squeal" ceramic pads. Well, they squeal at low speeds and when
>> making
>> a right turn, the squeal is louder from the left front. I wanted the
>> ceramic
>> pads to cut down on the dark colored dust that accumulates on the wheels.
>> Anyone have this problem that was able to make the ceramic pads work
>> without
>> squeal?
>
> Dan, I noticed the same problem about 2 years or so ago on my 99 Intrepid.
> (search on Intrepid brake subway squeal) I would hear squeaking noises,
> especially after wet days. Eventually I traced the problem to the heat
> shield
> on the inside of the front rotors. Apparently they are very close to the
> rotor
> when installed at the factory. Over time the metal rusts a little, it
> picks up
> small debris, etc. until the rotor is contacted, causing the noise. The
> noise
> is most noticeable on a side when turning in the opposite direction--e.g.
> a
> sharp left turn would make the right side sing.
>
> The fix for me was to carefully bend the shield farther away from the
> rotor. I
> used thin cardboard to protect the rotors while carefully bending it with
> a
> screwdriver, then sliding cardboard in the cap to clean out all the crap.
> I
> wouldn't remove the shield because it protects the steering knuckles from
> the
> heat of the wheel bearings and the brakes.
>
> Sometimes I do hear a squeaking noise after rainy days that appears to
> come from
> the rear wheels but who knows. I suspect it is caused by a thin layer of
> rust
> somewhere. Since my vehicle is still covered by service contract, I will
> ask a
> dealership soon about some other minor noises (I think) I've been hearing
> from
> the front end.
>
>