Who was it who mentioned Fram oil filters and dropping oil pressure?

"Vic Smith" > wrote in message
...

> Reset is key in run, engine off, push accelerator to floor 3 times
> quickly, and light should blink twice and go out.
> Anyway, the light is on now and has been since we got back from
> Florida a couple months ago.
> We changed the oil before we left, and only put about 3000 miles on it
> before the light came on.
> First time I ever saw it, but since my wife is its main driver, I'm
> not sure if was on before.
>
> --Vic

Our 1998 Buick LeSabre actually had a reset button in the glove compartment
area.

There were occasions it came on at less than 3500 miles, but not often.

I have heard the GM algorithm strongly defended as far as its ability to
predict
oil change intervals, but like most everything else in this entire thread,
there is
no hard proof that I have ever seen.

I am sure these studies must exist, on filters, oil change intervals, effect
of
particulates of different size distributions in the oil, etc etc, but I have
never
seen them. (And I HAVE looked for them)

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 08:22:45 -0600, "hls" > wrote:


>
>Our 1998 Buick LeSabre actually had a reset button in the glove compartment
>area.
>
>There were occasions it came on at less than 3500 miles, but not often.
>
My son told me that he has been resetting it when he changes oil, but
has also changed the oil before it came on, because we about to take a
long trip. And if it isn't on, he doesn't reset it.
That raises some questions. Personally, I don't see it as useful
unless you're willing to let it be your sole guide to oil changes.
Since we jot down mileage at changes, then change again after 3k miles
and no later than 4k miles, the light is just an irritation.

>I have heard the GM algorithm strongly defended as far as its ability to
>predict
>oil change intervals, but like most everything else in this entire thread,
>there is
>no hard proof that I have ever seen.
>
Agreed. If I feel like it later, I'll take a look at the shop manual
to see if says anything about it. Don't hold your breath.

>I am sure these studies must exist, on filters, oil change intervals, effect
>of
>particulates of different size distributions in the oil, etc etc, but I have
>never
>seen them. (And I HAVE looked for them)

I don't think they exist in a useful form. Imagine the logistics and
expense of testing so many engines under many conditions and miles,
with controls.
Even if one were to test the oil filtration characteristics of many
filters, using one engine to do it would not necessarily reveal how
another engine would do with the same filters.
Then you'll naturally get mechs and internet pundits saying stuff like
"Sure, the Fram might be OK the Chevy, but the Ford really needs a
Purulator."
The CR report was the most extensive I've seen, but had many flaws.
I consider it useless except as an interesting read.
The auto manufacturers have the best somewhat controlled ability to
get a handle on it with their maintenance schedules and dealership
networks. Besides that, when I worked at IH there were engines
constantly running on stands in the engine test area, and I'm sure all
manufacturers do the same.
I don't know what tests they do, but it's a safe assumption they are
using their own oil change recommendations to run some amount of
miles, teardown, and look for wear.
Doubt they tinker too much with the oil beyond that.
And as far as I saw, testing was done under constant external air
temperature.
Could be wrong about that though.
As an aside, when I was at IH in Melrose Park, IL, an engine test tech
was killed when an engine flew apart. There was quite a stink with
the UAW about flawed test equipment that allowed the engine to go full
throttle. About 1973.
In any case, a car on the road, driven under diverse weather
conditions, and varying warm-up and acceleration modes, is best left
to the owners own judgement regarding when to change the oil.
My opinion.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" > wrote in message
> In any case, a car on the road, driven under diverse weather
> conditions, and varying warm-up and acceleration modes, is best left
> to the owners own judgement regarding when to change the oil.
> My opinion.
>
> --Vic

And I fully agree.. It is the owner/driver, at the end of the day, who has
to
assume the responsibility for his maintenance diligency. (Except when
someone dogs one unmercifully and dumps it on an unsuspecting used car
buyer.)

"hls" > wrote in message
...


> I am sure these studies must exist, on filters, oil change intervals,
> effect of particulates of different size distributions in the oil, etc
> etc, nbut I have ever seen them. (And I HAVE looked for them)

Go to www.sae.org and search for papers on the subject.

The following was extracted from 981443 - Extended Oil Drain Intervals -
Conservation of
Resources or Reduction of Engine Life (Part II)

"....The authors jointly presented a paper at the February 1995 SAE Congress
(1). The main conclusion of the experience up to that time was:

"Used oil analysis of test cars in the European Market demonstrated that
engine oils can be already exhausted at 6,000 km (» 3,700 miles) or could
last up to 30,000 km (» 18,650 miles), depending on quality of the oil and
use of the car....

"4. CONCLUSION

"For a considerable time it has been the objective for scientists and
engineers around the world to optimise the use of resources on the one hand
and on the other hand to reduce operational costs for cars by defining the
ideal ODI. So far the best tools for the optimal definition of the ODI [Oil
Drain Interval] are relatively simple engine calculation systems based on
mileage, number of starts and average oil temperature.

"But also the oil quality has a major influence on the ODI. Since there is a
wide variety of lubricants with different performance levels available in
the market, it is necessary to develop a more intelligent system to include
oil quality in the calculation.

"An important task is to detect the correct engine oil performance level.
High performance engine oils are usually blended with extra high refined or
synthetic base stocks at higher cost. But they have a range of benefits,
especially reduced friction properties to improve fuel economy and
emissions, reduced oil consumption and better wear protection properties. If
this is also the case after several thousand miles of use, a bonus has to be
included by calculating
the ODI. On the other hand the ODI has to be shortened if a poor oil quality
is used.

"But the ODI is not only heavily influenced by the quality of the engine
oil, but also by the design and the use of the engine which are major
influencing factors. Therefore ideally we have to develop on-board
monitoring systems to detect the condition of the engine oil during its use.
Sensors able to do so are under development, but not yet available for
production.

"Combining the data stored in the engine management systems with "in situ"
conductivity measurements is a step forward towards optimised ODI's. The
experience and the high number of tests accumulated within the cooperation
of both companies over several years resulted in the new ASSYST service
system. With this system the car owners will benefit from an optimal mileage
calculated up to the next oil change. But there will also be a cost benefit
since the customer is able to select the most appropriate oil quality level
(to benefit from high performance oils) and increase the lifetime of his
car...."

"C. E. White" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "hls" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>> I am sure these studies must exist, on filters, oil change intervals,
>> effect of particulates of different size distributions in the oil, etc
>> etc, nbut I have ever seen them. (And I HAVE looked for them)
>
> Go to www.sae.org and search for papers on the subject.
>
> The following was extracted from 981443 - Extended Oil Drain Intervals -
> Conservation of
> Resources or Reduction of Engine Life (Part II)
>
> "....The authors jointly presented a paper at the February 1995 SAE
> Congress (1). The main conclusion of the experience up to that time was:
>
> "Used oil analysis of test cars in the European Market demonstrated that
> engine oils can be already exhausted at 6,000 km (» 3,700 miles) or could
> last up to 30,000 km (» 18,650 miles), depending on quality of the oil and
> use of the car....
>
> "4. CONCLUSION
>
> "For a considerable time it has been the objective for scientists and
> engineers around the world to optimise the use of resources on the one
> hand and on the other hand to reduce operational costs for cars by
> defining the ideal ODI. So far the best tools for the optimal definition
> of the ODI [Oil Drain Interval] are relatively simple engine calculation
> systems based on mileage, number of starts and average oil temperature.
>
> "But also the oil quality has a major influence on the ODI. Since there is
> a wide variety of lubricants with different performance levels available
> in the market, it is necessary to develop a more intelligent system to
> include oil quality in the calculation.
>
> "An important task is to detect the correct engine oil performance level.
> High performance engine oils are usually blended with extra high refined
> or synthetic base stocks at higher cost. But they have a range of
> benefits, especially reduced friction properties to improve fuel economy
> and emissions, reduced oil consumption and better wear protection
> properties. If this is also the case after several thousand miles of use,
> a bonus has to be included by calculating
> the ODI. On the other hand the ODI has to be shortened if a poor oil
> quality is used.
>
> "But the ODI is not only heavily influenced by the quality of the engine
> oil, but also by the design and the use of the engine which are major
> influencing factors. Therefore ideally we have to develop on-board
> monitoring systems to detect the condition of the engine oil during its
> use. Sensors able to do so are under development, but not yet available
> for production.
>
> "Combining the data stored in the engine management systems with "in situ"
> conductivity measurements is a step forward towards optimised ODI's. The
> experience and the high number of tests accumulated within the cooperation
> of both companies over several years resulted in the new ASSYST service
> system. With this system the car owners will benefit from an optimal
> mileage calculated up to the next oil change. But there will also be a
> cost benefit since the customer is able to select the most appropriate oil
> quality level (to benefit from high performance oils) and increase the
> lifetime of his car...."


Thanks, C.E.
By the way, I was googling yesterday, looking for a Timken lubricity tester,
and
found a link to a video where this (somewhat elementary) took was being used
to evaluate several motor oil lubricants and additives. It is worth a quick
look.
I will try to find it and post it on here.

"hls" > wrote in message
...
>
> "C. E. White" > wrote in message
> m...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iFOTu2Kimg

Here is that link.. Interesting, but not definitive.

"C. E. White" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "hls" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>> I am sure these studies must exist, on filters, oil change intervals,
>> effect of particulates of different size distributions in the oil, etc
>> etc, nbut I have ever seen them. (And I HAVE looked for them)
>
> Go to www.sae.org and search for papers on the subject.

I have been there before, but at $12 per paper, I didnt go any further.

hls wrote:
>
> "hls" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "C. E. White" > wrote in message
>> m...
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iFOTu2Kimg
>
> Here is that link.. Interesting, but not definitive.

Especially when you do a little research on the "winner" of that test,
Motor Latte.

http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=29267
http://wwsnforums.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=99

"nobody >" > wrote in message
>
> Especially when you do a little research on the "winner" of that test,
> Motor Latte.
>
> http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=29267
> http://wwsnforums.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=99

You can find a number of items which will give spectacular test numbers
on this kind of lubricity unit. Whether they do anything at all inside an
engine, and whether they promote longer and more trouble free engine
life is quite another thing.

I always harp on wanting to see hard data. For something to be of
value and interest, it needs to be tested under relevant protocols, over
a variety of conditions, and with enough population in the test set
to assure that the data is significant.