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alternator circuit question



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 19th 04, 09:45 PM
maxpower
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the reason why i ask is because the emiision test center cares here in MD.
I no all about those irrelvant codes, its hard to tell the emission test
center that the check engine lite is on becuase of a P/s switch is faulty,
but they dot care, they go by the guidelines, lite is on vehicle fails
"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, maxpower wrote:
>
> > will that still set a fault for alt not switching properly?

>
> Some SBEC calibrations won't care that an external regulator is doing the
> job; others will set a fault. Of those that set a fault, some (mostly
> '92-up) will illuminate the MIL. This can be worked around as previously
> mentioned by putting a resistor across the vehicle's two original field
> wires (which have been disconnected from the alternator). And really,
> that's the only thing that matters, is that this repair be made in such a
> manner as not to have the Check Engine light on. If it sets a fault code,
> who cares? There are plenty of cases where an irrelevant fault is stored.
> Cars without A/C routinely set a 33 ("Open or Short in A/C clutch
> circuit"). K-car derivatives that have had the torque converter lockup
> disconnected in accordance with the TSB on part-throttle surge and lug
> will set a 37 ("Open or short in TCC circuit").
>
> The important thing is that the charging system's operation will be
> reliably restored without causing new problems, and at a much lower cost
> than replacing the computer.
>
> DS



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  #22  
Old November 19th 04, 10:16 PM
exxos
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"Jon G." > wrote in message
nk.net...
>I have a 91 Plymouth Acclaim, and the alternator doesn't charge the
>battery. I took the alternator out and had it tested, and there's nothing
>wrong with it. I put a new battery in it, but it still won't charge. I
>checked the fuseable link from the alternator to the battery, and there is
>continuity. Therefore, it must be the computer.
>
> there are 4 connections on the alternator
>
> L1: direct to battery, positive
> L2: direct to battery, negative
> c1: small wire, logic, to computer, activates diode
> c2: small wire, logic, to computer, also battery ground.
>
> I want to activate the alternator continuously and put on an external
> voltage regulator.
>
> What must the voltage (and current), to the logic inputs c1 & c2 be to do
> so?
>
> I have in mind to run a potentiometer between L1 and c1, and adjust it
> until the alternator kicks on.
>
> The schematic shows that c1 goes to the coil of a transformer in the
> alternator, which then goes to one of the diodes (an SCR?)



I had a problem with one of my cars in the past with the alternator not
charging, what this turned out to be was the ground pin on the regulator was
going via a lamp on the dashboard, thus giveing a slight volt raise on the
ground so you got maybe 13V from the 12V regulator, though it took me a long
time to work out why my battery wouldn't charge, turns out the bulb went on
the dashboard, no ground on the regulator, alternator didn't charge the
battery, thus car wouldn't start.... strange how a small item such as a
dashboard light can stop the car from starting ;-)

Chris





  #23  
Old November 19th 04, 10:16 PM
exxos
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Jon G." > wrote in message
nk.net...
>I have a 91 Plymouth Acclaim, and the alternator doesn't charge the
>battery. I took the alternator out and had it tested, and there's nothing
>wrong with it. I put a new battery in it, but it still won't charge. I
>checked the fuseable link from the alternator to the battery, and there is
>continuity. Therefore, it must be the computer.
>
> there are 4 connections on the alternator
>
> L1: direct to battery, positive
> L2: direct to battery, negative
> c1: small wire, logic, to computer, activates diode
> c2: small wire, logic, to computer, also battery ground.
>
> I want to activate the alternator continuously and put on an external
> voltage regulator.
>
> What must the voltage (and current), to the logic inputs c1 & c2 be to do
> so?
>
> I have in mind to run a potentiometer between L1 and c1, and adjust it
> until the alternator kicks on.
>
> The schematic shows that c1 goes to the coil of a transformer in the
> alternator, which then goes to one of the diodes (an SCR?)



I had a problem with one of my cars in the past with the alternator not
charging, what this turned out to be was the ground pin on the regulator was
going via a lamp on the dashboard, thus giveing a slight volt raise on the
ground so you got maybe 13V from the 12V regulator, though it took me a long
time to work out why my battery wouldn't charge, turns out the bulb went on
the dashboard, no ground on the regulator, alternator didn't charge the
battery, thus car wouldn't start.... strange how a small item such as a
dashboard light can stop the car from starting ;-)

Chris





  #24  
Old November 19th 04, 10:30 PM
maxpower
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

i would check out the circuit before cutting and adding resistors and
regulators, try to keep eveything working the way it was designed, many a
times i have found the 8 way connectors loose/corroded causing a no charge
condition. just a simple back probe test to the PCM
"exxos" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jon G." > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >I have a 91 Plymouth Acclaim, and the alternator doesn't charge the
> >battery. I took the alternator out and had it tested, and there's

nothing
> >wrong with it. I put a new battery in it, but it still won't charge. I
> >checked the fuseable link from the alternator to the battery, and there

is
> >continuity. Therefore, it must be the computer.
> >
> > there are 4 connections on the alternator
> >
> > L1: direct to battery, positive
> > L2: direct to battery, negative
> > c1: small wire, logic, to computer, activates diode
> > c2: small wire, logic, to computer, also battery ground.
> >
> > I want to activate the alternator continuously and put on an external
> > voltage regulator.
> >
> > What must the voltage (and current), to the logic inputs c1 & c2 be to

do
> > so?
> >
> > I have in mind to run a potentiometer between L1 and c1, and adjust it
> > until the alternator kicks on.
> >
> > The schematic shows that c1 goes to the coil of a transformer in the
> > alternator, which then goes to one of the diodes (an SCR?)

>
>
> I had a problem with one of my cars in the past with the alternator not
> charging, what this turned out to be was the ground pin on the regulator

was
> going via a lamp on the dashboard, thus giveing a slight volt raise on the
> ground so you got maybe 13V from the 12V regulator, though it took me a

long
> time to work out why my battery wouldn't charge, turns out the bulb went

on
> the dashboard, no ground on the regulator, alternator didn't charge the
> battery, thus car wouldn't start.... strange how a small item such as a
> dashboard light can stop the car from starting ;-)
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>



  #25  
Old November 19th 04, 10:30 PM
maxpower
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

i would check out the circuit before cutting and adding resistors and
regulators, try to keep eveything working the way it was designed, many a
times i have found the 8 way connectors loose/corroded causing a no charge
condition. just a simple back probe test to the PCM
"exxos" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jon G." > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >I have a 91 Plymouth Acclaim, and the alternator doesn't charge the
> >battery. I took the alternator out and had it tested, and there's

nothing
> >wrong with it. I put a new battery in it, but it still won't charge. I
> >checked the fuseable link from the alternator to the battery, and there

is
> >continuity. Therefore, it must be the computer.
> >
> > there are 4 connections on the alternator
> >
> > L1: direct to battery, positive
> > L2: direct to battery, negative
> > c1: small wire, logic, to computer, activates diode
> > c2: small wire, logic, to computer, also battery ground.
> >
> > I want to activate the alternator continuously and put on an external
> > voltage regulator.
> >
> > What must the voltage (and current), to the logic inputs c1 & c2 be to

do
> > so?
> >
> > I have in mind to run a potentiometer between L1 and c1, and adjust it
> > until the alternator kicks on.
> >
> > The schematic shows that c1 goes to the coil of a transformer in the
> > alternator, which then goes to one of the diodes (an SCR?)

>
>
> I had a problem with one of my cars in the past with the alternator not
> charging, what this turned out to be was the ground pin on the regulator

was
> going via a lamp on the dashboard, thus giveing a slight volt raise on the
> ground so you got maybe 13V from the 12V regulator, though it took me a

long
> time to work out why my battery wouldn't charge, turns out the bulb went

on
> the dashboard, no ground on the regulator, alternator didn't charge the
> battery, thus car wouldn't start.... strange how a small item such as a
> dashboard light can stop the car from starting ;-)
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>



  #26  
Old November 19th 04, 10:52 PM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, maxpower wrote:

> the reason why i ask is because the emiision test center cares here in MD.
> I no all about those irrelvant codes, its hard to tell the emission test
> center that the check engine lite is on becuase of a P/s switch is faulty,


That's why it's important to make sure the Check Engine light is not on.

You're making this much harder and "scarier" than it actually is.
  #27  
Old November 19th 04, 10:52 PM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, maxpower wrote:

> the reason why i ask is because the emiision test center cares here in MD.
> I no all about those irrelvant codes, its hard to tell the emission test
> center that the check engine lite is on becuase of a P/s switch is faulty,


That's why it's important to make sure the Check Engine light is not on.

You're making this much harder and "scarier" than it actually is.
  #28  
Old November 19th 04, 10:53 PM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, exxos wrote:

> I had a problem with one of my cars in the past with the alternator not
> charging, what this turned out to be was the ground pin on the regulator
> was going via a lamp on the dashboard, thus giveing a slight volt raise
> on the ground so you got maybe 13V from the 12V regulator, though it
> took me a long time to work out why my battery wouldn't charge, turns
> out the bulb went on the dashboard, no ground on the regulator,
> alternator didn't charge the battery, thus car wouldn't start....


Fun story, but not applicable to the original poster's '91 Acclaim -- not
even a little bit. Also, "12v" automotive voltage regulators have set
points of between 13.8 and 15.1 volts. A regulator with a set point of 12v
would not charge the battery.
  #29  
Old November 19th 04, 10:53 PM
Daniel J. Stern
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, exxos wrote:

> I had a problem with one of my cars in the past with the alternator not
> charging, what this turned out to be was the ground pin on the regulator
> was going via a lamp on the dashboard, thus giveing a slight volt raise
> on the ground so you got maybe 13V from the 12V regulator, though it
> took me a long time to work out why my battery wouldn't charge, turns
> out the bulb went on the dashboard, no ground on the regulator,
> alternator didn't charge the battery, thus car wouldn't start....


Fun story, but not applicable to the original poster's '91 Acclaim -- not
even a little bit. Also, "12v" automotive voltage regulators have set
points of between 13.8 and 15.1 volts. A regulator with a set point of 12v
would not charge the battery.
  #30  
Old November 19th 04, 11:21 PM
exxos
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Daniel J. Stern" > wrote in message
n.umich.edu...
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, exxos wrote:
>
>> I had a problem with one of my cars in the past with the alternator not
>> charging, what this turned out to be was the ground pin on the regulator
>> was going via a lamp on the dashboard, thus giveing a slight volt raise
>> on the ground so you got maybe 13V from the 12V regulator, though it
>> took me a long time to work out why my battery wouldn't charge, turns
>> out the bulb went on the dashboard, no ground on the regulator,
>> alternator didn't charge the battery, thus car wouldn't start....

>
> Fun story, but not applicable to the original poster's '91 Acclaim -- not
> even a little bit. Also, "12v" automotive voltage regulators have set
> points of between 13.8 and 15.1 volts. A regulator with a set point of 12v
> would not charge the battery.


I was suggesting that simple faults can make things look like sometime which
they are not, and yes you are correct 12V wont charge the battery, the OP
had alternator problems which im pretty sure I gave some suggestions towards
a possible cure. 12V regulators do exsist, like my old car raised to around
13V via the resistance in the dash lamp, the OP has a valuable new view
point on his problem to which I replied.

chris



 




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