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  #11  
Old June 9th 04, 08:16 PM
MeatballTurbo
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In article >, catman@cuore-
rustsportivo.co.uk spouted forth into alt.autos.alfa-romeo...
> MeatballTurbo wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > says...
> >> On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 12:07:41 +0100, MeatballTurbo
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article >,
> >> says...
> >> >> On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 09:33:46 +0200, Gordon
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Correct: it turns, but no indication of spark at all.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >The frustating part is that it seems to run flawless at some point
> >> >> >but then the next morning.....
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Definitely check that the coil is being energised. ours used to do
> >> >> something simlar. You;d be driving along, and it would just die. You
> >> >> could re-start it immediately, but you had no idea how long it would
> >> >> be......
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >Does this sound like a grounding issue?
> >> >
> >> >I thought that when I first read it, but not been mentioned yet.
> >>
> >> Could be I guess. Ground strap to the engine may well have that kind
> >> of effect.
> >>
> >>

> > I know I don't yet own an Alfa, and that while never as bad as portrayed
> > Alfa electricals are stuff of legend, but I've only ever owned older
> > cars, and I'm amazed at how some of them have kept running with the main
> > ground strap from the engine to the chassis being about 3 strands of
> > left of the original inch wide strap.

>
> They only carry large current when actually cranking though, don't they?


Yep, normally, but it only takes a bit of engine rocking when cranking
to seperate the ground, and some cars have multiple one on the engine
and another on the transmission (especially if the starter motor is in
the trans (Skoda estelle transaxle had the engine on one side of the
trans, and the starter on the other you could just about change it from
inside the car through the slave cylinder/gearbox fluid topup port in
the floor ebhind the back seat).
> > And the Saab has it's own problems with heat from the turbo reducing
> > wiring insulation close by to the consistency of candle wax after 20
> > years of being slowly grilled everyday.

>
> heh. Quite fancy one of them one day


Oh they really are fun, and I know a couple of guys who have the road
legal and running 300+bhp through gearboxes that have trouble with much
more than 200 when the engines produce 185 tops standard. They each go
through about 3 boxes a year. Couple of swedish and american guys have
close to 400, but they use ericsonn 4 speed dog boxes for racing (drag
or classic rallycross) which cost about £1500 a pop+ about £2-400 labour
depending where you go, are stronger, not so great on the road and can
still break if you aren't careful.

But, push them hard and you can be down to low 20's MPG. Had a week off,
and never left town, and not even driving hard I managed 24MPG. Did a
190mile return journey, Motorway not dropping below 80 for more than 5
minutes, averaging 80-90 with quick bursts over the tonne on the M62
over the pennines at 7.30AM on a Sunday, fantastic real "Vanishing
Point" stuff with the mist just starting to clear on the hills arround
the motorway, and as you are climbing the engine is just loaded enough
for the turbo to be spooling constantly and whistling up not fully
boosting, but just enough to sound nice, and pass smaller cars, and some
big german ones as the thinner atmosphere slows them down and got 32-
33MPG. On my usual 180-190 weekly commute returns between 29-30
depending on the traffic mixed A road and Motorway much slower than my
nice Sunday run.

--
Carl Robson
(The poster formerly known as Skodapilot)
http://www.bouncing-czechs.com
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  #12  
Old June 9th 04, 11:04 PM
Pete
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On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 16:43:51 GMT, Catman >,
wrote:

>> And the Saab has it's own problems with heat from the turbo reducing
>> wiring insulation close by to the consistency of candle wax after 20
>> years of being slowly grilled everyday.

>
>heh. Quite fancy one of them one day


Sounds as much fun as deep fried Bounty Bars :-)

Pete
--
>
156 2.0 TS (2001) - Proteo Rosso (his)
147 2.0 TS (2002) - Gem Green (her's)
  #13  
Old June 9th 04, 11:10 PM
Catman
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Pete wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 16:43:51 GMT, Catman
> >, wrote:
>
>>> And the Saab has it's own problems with heat from the turbo reducing
>>> wiring insulation close by to the consistency of candle wax after 20
>>> years of being slowly grilled everyday.

>>
>>heh. Quite fancy one of them one day

>
> Sounds as much fun as deep fried Bounty Bars :-)
>

Yummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
/HHGTTG
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #14  
Old June 10th 04, 07:07 AM
MeatballTurbo
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In article >, iowna156
@alfa.com spouted forth into alt.autos.alfa-romeo...
> On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 16:43:51 GMT, Catman >,
> wrote:
>
> >> And the Saab has it's own problems with heat from the turbo reducing
> >> wiring insulation close by to the consistency of candle wax after 20
> >> years of being slowly grilled everyday.

> >
> >heh. Quite fancy one of them one day

>
> Sounds as much fun as deep fried Bounty Bars :-)


Oh the slowly grilled wiring is a minor prolem, and has taken 20 years
to surface.

the biggest worry is that if you start to lose turbo boost, is pis
probably vacuum hose related, and there is abour 4 miles of vac hose in
three different sizes under the bonnet, plus more under the dash. Under
the bonnet it detects boost levels, controls fuel pressure, feeds the
brake servo, and operates the cruise control. It also connects to an
accumulator that feeds under the dash.

Under the dash there is a load more hoses that connect to the overboost
regulator/fuel cut, and the APC boost boost detector (the APC is an
electrical boost control that can be tweaked somewhat and reads boost
and also detects knock), plus the Turbo boost guage, and the heater
controls whose servos are vacuum operated) and the controls for the
cruise control.

And if anyone of those hoses develops a leak, you lose boost, the old
black rubber ones would go brittle age and contamination, and sometimes
a leak would develop that closed when warm.

I've gotten most of them fixed now, but the cruise doesn't work, but it
appears to be electrical rather than VAC related, so I may need to
locate a new indicator/cruise stalk to try that.

--
Carl Robson
(The poster formerly known as Skodapilot)
http://www.bouncing-czechs.com
  #15  
Old June 10th 04, 07:18 AM
Catman
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Pete wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 16:43:51 GMT, Catman
> >, wrote:
>
>>> And the Saab has it's own problems with heat from the turbo reducing
>>> wiring insulation close by to the consistency of candle wax after 20
>>> years of being slowly grilled everyday.

>>
>>heh. Quite fancy one of them one day

>
> Sounds as much fun as deep fried Bounty Bars :-)
>


Hmmmmm, nutttyyyy

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #16  
Old June 16th 04, 05:26 PM
Gordon
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Nope

Apparently I left the car standing for too long this weekend and her
will to live seems to have completely vanished since. I'm not even
sure now it *is* an ignition problem and wonder if she's in need for
another heart transplant. However....

Ground strap seems okay (don't I also need that to run the solenoid?)
Steady voltage running to the coil.

When I lay one of the sparks on top of the engine I actually see it
sparking. Now my vision is somewhat blocked 'cause I'm looking through
the vent holes, but somehow the sparks seem erratic and I think they
are supposed to be blue-ish, not yellow. Still, shouldn't that give me
at least an occasional crank instead of the silent treatment I'm
receiving now???

Gordon


On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 06:32:40 GMT, Catman
> wrote:

>On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 14:00:41 +0200, Gordon
> wrote:
>
>>Well, that's not quite it. Once it runs, it runs. It doesn't die while
>>driving.

>
>I suspect that might be a fluke.
>
>>I'll check both your suggestion and the one made by
>>MeatballTurbo though.

>
>Aye. Check the grounding strap, and the battery ground as well come
>to that
>>Thanks...

>
>Hope you sort it


Gordon

Giulietta 1.8 '82
GT Junior 2.0 '75
GT Junior 2.0 '74 (project)
  #17  
Old June 17th 04, 11:30 AM
Catman
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Gordon wrote:

> Nope
>
> Apparently I left the car standing for too long this weekend and her
> will to live seems to have completely vanished since. I'm not even
> sure now it *is* an ignition problem and wonder if she's in need for
> another heart transplant. However....


Why do you think that?

> Ground strap seems okay (don't I also need that to run the solenoid?)


Not necessarily

> Steady voltage running to the coil.


OK

> When I lay one of the sparks on top of the engine I actually see it
> sparking. Now my vision is somewhat blocked 'cause I'm looking through
> the vent holes,


Vent holes of what?

> but somehow the sparks seem erratic and I think they
> are supposed to be blue-ish, not yellow. Still, shouldn't that give me
> at least an occasional crank instead of the silent treatment I'm
> receiving now???


Possibly. Perhaps we should go back to basics:

Fuel, spark compression:

I suggest that you check that fuel is getting to the cylinders
Then get some 'proper' spark testers (I like the ones that sit on top of
the plugs and light up when you get a spark)
If those two tests reveal nothing, then over to the pros to get the spark
timing checked (which suddenly makes me think: is your distributor loose?)
unless you have a timing strobe, and then check that you have compression.
TBH I think the compression is unlikely to be the culprit.

C


> Gordon
>
>
> On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 06:32:40 GMT, Catman
> > wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 14:00:41 +0200, Gordon
> wrote:
>>
>>>Well, that's not quite it. Once it runs, it runs. It doesn't die while
>>>driving.

>>
>>I suspect that might be a fluke.
>>
>>>I'll check both your suggestion and the one made by
>>>MeatballTurbo though.

>>
>>Aye. Check the grounding strap, and the battery ground as well come
>>to that
>>>Thanks...

>>
>>Hope you sort it

>
> Gordon
>
> Giulietta 1.8 '82
> GT Junior 2.0 '75
> GT Junior 2.0 '74 (project)


--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
  #18  
Old June 18th 04, 09:02 AM
Gordon
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On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:30:58 GMT, Catman
> wrote:

>Gordon wrote:
>
>> Nope
>>
>> Apparently I left the car standing for too long this weekend and her
>> will to live seems to have completely vanished since. I'm not even
>> sure now it *is* an ignition problem and wonder if she's in need for
>> another heart transplant. However....

>
>Why do you think that?


The engine's got about 300kkm on it and really didn't run that smooth
to start with.

>> Ground strap seems okay (don't I also need that to run the solenoid?)

>
>Not necessarily
>
>> Steady voltage running to the coil.

>
>OK
>
>> When I lay one of the sparks on top of the engine I actually see it
>> sparking. Now my vision is somewhat blocked 'cause I'm looking through
>> the vent holes,

>
>Vent holes of what?


The big black ones on top of the enginebay cover

>> but somehow the sparks seem erratic and I think they
>> are supposed to be blue-ish, not yellow. Still, shouldn't that give me
>> at least an occasional crank instead of the silent treatment I'm
>> receiving now???

>
>Possibly. Perhaps we should go back to basics:
>
>Fuel, spark compression:
>
>I suggest that you check that fuel is getting to the cylinders
>Then get some 'proper' spark testers (I like the ones that sit on top of
>the plugs and light up when you get a spark)
>If those two tests reveal nothing, then over to the pros to get the spark
>timing checked (which suddenly makes me think: is your distributor loose?)
>unless you have a timing strobe, and then check that you have compression.
>TBH I think the compression is unlikely to be the culprit.


Distributor is fully tight and besides that wouldn't comply with the
fact that once it runs I can keep it running and even restart it after
breaks up to several hours. Using the finger method I defenitly feel
compression (had to check it because after switching distributor I
suddenly felt that I might have put it back in reversed). Seems that
the number four carburettor isn't behaving well either since the
flowchannel is getting wet. At least proof there's fuel reaching the
engine.

She has to meet the mechanic next week anyway for her anual
APK/MOT/VAT. Guess I'll have to tow her to meet that appointment.
Shame

Thanks for thinking...

Gordon

Giulietta 1.8 '82
GT Junior 2.0 '75
GT Junior 2.0 '74 (project)
  #19  
Old June 18th 04, 02:16 PM
Catman
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Gordon wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:30:58 GMT, Catman
> > wrote:
>
>>Gordon wrote:
>>
>>> Nope
>>>
>>> Apparently I left the car standing for too long this weekend and her
>>> will to live seems to have completely vanished since. I'm not even
>>> sure now it *is* an ignition problem and wonder if she's in need for
>>> another heart transplant. However....

>>
>>Why do you think that?

>
> The engine's got about 300kkm on it and really didn't run that smooth
> to start with.


Hmm, might be getting on a bit. Mine was fine up to 220kkm+ And I mean
*fine*. Was well cared for though

>>> Ground strap seems okay (don't I also need that to run the solenoid?)

>>
>>Not necessarily
>>
>>> Steady voltage running to the coil.

>>
>>OK
>>
>>> When I lay one of the sparks on top of the engine I actually see it
>>> sparking. Now my vision is somewhat blocked 'cause I'm looking through
>>> the vent holes,

>>
>>Vent holes of what?

>
> The big black ones on top of the enginebay cover


Ah.
>>> but somehow the sparks seem erratic and I think they
>>> are supposed to be blue-ish, not yellow. Still, shouldn't that give me
>>> at least an occasional crank instead of the silent treatment I'm
>>> receiving now???

>>
>>Possibly. Perhaps we should go back to basics:
>>
>>Fuel, spark compression:
>>
>>I suggest that you check that fuel is getting to the cylinders
>>Then get some 'proper' spark testers (I like the ones that sit on top of
>>the plugs and light up when you get a spark)
>>If those two tests reveal nothing, then over to the pros to get the spark
>>timing checked (which suddenly makes me think: is your distributor loose?)
>>unless you have a timing strobe, and then check that you have compression.
>>TBH I think the compression is unlikely to be the culprit.

>
> Distributor is fully tight and besides that wouldn't comply with the
> fact that once it runs I can keep it running and even restart it after
> breaks up to several hours.


Well, it *might*, but unlikely with that in mind.

>Using the finger method I defenitly feel
> compression (had to check it because after switching distributor I
> suddenly felt that I might have put it back in reversed). Seems that
> the number four carburettor isn't behaving well either since the
> flowchannel is getting wet. At least proof there's fuel reaching the
> engine.


But too much, or maybe just cos it's not burning. I nearly always had some
fuel in the inlets.

> She has to meet the mechanic next week anyway for her anual
> APK/MOT/VAT. Guess I'll have to tow her to meet that appointment.
> Shame


Never good for the soul.

> Thanks for thinking...


Just irritating that we can't figure it out


--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
 




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