Turns Over but Won't Start

Hi all,
Drove my *automatic* '95 for an hour to a store, parked it, went shopping
for an hour, came out, and the Miata would not start.
It happily cranks but does not start. Noticed that the 'hold' light on the
dash blinks continuously (this is an automatic) and believe that it is
trying to tell me something. Have seen the hold light lit when turning the
key to start the car but never saw it blink before. There is no mention of
an error code for a blinking 'hold' light, neither online or in Rod's
manual. I get the impression that there may be some failed relay that is
restricting spark, perhaps 'thinking' that the car is not in Park. I moved
the shifter about rigorously, exercised the hold button, giggled the key in
the solid feeling ignition, but no joy. Any idea what it might likely be?
There is some talk about a EMI (?) relay, and a 'main' relay that can go bad
unexpectantly and have the symptom of cranking without starting. If that
sounds like the likely cause can someone please tell me where this relay is
located (in fuse box under hood, or under dash) and what the part number is?
Or if you have some other idea what the problem might be I would greatly
appreciate your advice.
Thanks in advance for your thoughts or suggestions.
Regards,

"Christopher Muto" > wrote in message
t...
> Hi all,
> Drove my *automatic* '95 for an hour to a store, parked it, went shopping
> for an hour, came out, and the Miata would not start.
> It happily cranks but does not start. Noticed that the 'hold' light on
> the dash blinks continuously (this is an automatic) and believe that it is
> trying to tell me something. Have seen the hold light lit when turning
> the key to start the car but never saw it blink before. There is no
> mention of an error code for a blinking 'hold' light, neither online or in
> Rod's manual. I get the impression that there may be some failed relay
> that is restricting spark, perhaps 'thinking' that the car is not in Park.
> I moved the shifter about rigorously, exercised the hold button, giggled
> the key in the solid feeling ignition, but no joy. Any idea what it might
> likely be? There is some talk about a EMI (?) relay, and a 'main' relay
> that can go bad unexpectantly and have the symptom of cranking without
> starting. If that sounds like the likely cause can someone please tell me
> where this relay is located (in fuse box under hood, or under dash) and
> what the part number is? Or if you have some other idea what the problem
> might be I would greatly appreciate your advice.
> Thanks in advance for your thoughts or suggestions.
> Regards,

Found a note in the manual that reads "If the hold indicator light flashes,
the transmission has an electrical problem. Continuing to drive your Mazda
in this condition could cause damage to your transmission." But it doesn't
say it should not start... so I wonder if they are talking about the hold
light blinking while the engine is running or car is driving, and that the
blinking hold light might mean something else when the engine is off. Any
thoughts on this? Thanks!

Christopher Muto wrote:
> Hi all,
> Drove my *automatic* '95 for an hour to a store, parked it, went shopping
> for an hour, came out, and the Miata would not start.
> It happily cranks but does not start. Noticed that the 'hold' light on the
> dash blinks continuously (this is an automatic) and believe that it is
> trying to tell me something. Have seen the hold light lit when turning the
> key to start the car but never saw it blink before. There is no mention of
> an error code for a blinking 'hold' light, neither online or in Rod's
> manual. I get the impression that there may be some failed relay that is
> restricting spark, perhaps 'thinking' that the car is not in Park. I moved
> the shifter about rigorously, exercised the hold button, giggled the key in
> the solid feeling ignition, but no joy. Any idea what it might likely be?
> There is some talk about a EMI (?) relay, and a 'main' relay that can go bad
> unexpectantly and have the symptom of cranking without starting. If that
> sounds like the likely cause can someone please tell me where this relay is
> located (in fuse box under hood, or under dash) and what the part number is?
> Or if you have some other idea what the problem might be I would greatly
> appreciate your advice.
> Thanks in advance for your thoughts or suggestions.
> Regards,

Hi Chris,

you have touch one one area that is not my specialty at all, otherwise I
would help you.

Don't have any suspension, rollbar or top issues, do you? :-)

If you haven't already done so, it would probably be best to post this
question on the moderated, (ugh, I hate that word), forum on Miata.net.

Someone there should have some suggestions for you. This group is
seriously down to like 10 people or less that post regularly, so it is
becoming a poor source in general for Miata technical advice.

8 years ago, almost any question asked was answered within the hour,
although sometimes by Leon, which didn't really count. ;-).

Ahhh, the good old days.........

Pat

Pat, don't forget it's quality, not quantity (of posters) ;-)
My thought would be; your timing belt may have snapped. It's a long shot but
worth mentioning. I think you can have someone watch thru the oil filler cap
(while cranking the starter) to see if the valve train is operating.

Good luck, there's few and far between automatics so, if it's related to
that, might be a bit more elusive.

Chris
99BBB

"pws" > wrote in message
...
> Christopher Muto wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Drove my *automatic* '95 for an hour to a store, parked it, went shopping
>> for an hour, came out, and the Miata would not start.
>> It happily cranks but does not start. Noticed that the 'hold' light on
>> the dash blinks continuously (this is an automatic) and believe that it
>> is trying to tell me something. Have seen the hold light lit when
>> turning the key to start the car but never saw it blink before. There is
>> no mention of an error code for a blinking 'hold' light, neither online
>> or in Rod's manual. I get the impression that there may be some failed
>> relay that is restricting spark, perhaps 'thinking' that the car is not
>> in Park. I moved the shifter about rigorously, exercised the hold
>> button, giggled the key in the solid feeling ignition, but no joy. Any
>> idea what it might likely be? There is some talk about a EMI (?) relay,
>> and a 'main' relay that can go bad unexpectantly and have the symptom of
>> cranking without starting. If that sounds like the likely cause can
>> someone please tell me where this relay is located (in fuse box under
>> hood, or under dash) and what the part number is? Or if you have some
>> other idea what the problem might be I would greatly appreciate your
>> advice.
>> Thanks in advance for your thoughts or suggestions.
>> Regards,
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> you have touch one one area that is not my specialty at all, otherwise I
> would help you.
>
> Don't have any suspension, rollbar or top issues, do you? :-)
>
> If you haven't already done so, it would probably be best to post this
> question on the moderated, (ugh, I hate that word), forum on Miata.net.
>
> Someone there should have some suggestions for you. This group is
> seriously down to like 10 people or less that post regularly, so it is
> becoming a poor source in general for Miata technical advice.
>
> 8 years ago, almost any question asked was answered within the hour,
> although sometimes by Leon, which didn't really count. ;-).
>
> Ahhh, the good old days.........
>
> Pat

Thanks for your input Chris. I had that thought too.. but the timming belt
was done about 25k ago, so it seems unlikely. Will let you all know what
the mechanic says. It would seem logical that the flashing hold light would
be some sort of error code related to the transmission... like it does not
'think' it is in Park, or the pringle switch on the transmission is bad (if
this model has such a thing)... to be continued.

"Chris D'Agnolo" > wrote in message
...
> Pat, don't forget it's quality, not quantity (of posters) ;-)
> My thought would be; your timing belt may have snapped. It's a long shot
> but worth mentioning. I think you can have someone watch thru the oil
> filler cap (while cranking the starter) to see if the valve train is
> operating.
>
> Good luck, there's few and far between automatics so, if it's related to
> that, might be a bit more elusive.
>
> Chris
> 99BBB
>
> "pws" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Christopher Muto wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> Drove my *automatic* '95 for an hour to a store, parked it, went
>>> shopping for an hour, came out, and the Miata would not start.
>>> It happily cranks but does not start. Noticed that the 'hold' light on
>>> the dash blinks continuously (this is an automatic) and believe that it
>>> is trying to tell me something. Have seen the hold light lit when
>>> turning the key to start the car but never saw it blink before. There
>>> is no mention of an error code for a blinking 'hold' light, neither
>>> online or in Rod's manual. I get the impression that there may be some
>>> failed relay that is restricting spark, perhaps 'thinking' that the car
>>> is not in Park. I moved the shifter about rigorously, exercised the
>>> hold button, giggled the key in the solid feeling ignition, but no joy.
>>> Any idea what it might likely be? There is some talk about a EMI (?)
>>> relay, and a 'main' relay that can go bad unexpectantly and have the
>>> symptom of cranking without starting. If that sounds like the likely
>>> cause can someone please tell me where this relay is located (in fuse
>>> box under hood, or under dash) and what the part number is? Or if you
>>> have some other idea what the problem might be I would greatly
>>> appreciate your advice.
>>> Thanks in advance for your thoughts or suggestions.
>>> Regards,
>>
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> you have touch one one area that is not my specialty at all, otherwise I
>> would help you.
>>
>> Don't have any suspension, rollbar or top issues, do you? :-)
>>
>> If you haven't already done so, it would probably be best to post this
>> question on the moderated, (ugh, I hate that word), forum on Miata.net.
>>
>> Someone there should have some suggestions for you. This group is
>> seriously down to like 10 people or less that post regularly, so it is
>> becoming a poor source in general for Miata technical advice.
>>
>> 8 years ago, almost any question asked was answered within the hour,
>> although sometimes by Leon, which didn't really count. ;-).
>>
>> Ahhh, the good old days.........
>>
>> Pat
>

"Christopher Muto" > wrote:

> It would seem logical that the flashing hold light would be some
> sort of error code related to the transmission...

Agreed, but as already mentioned there aren't too many automatic owners
here and I'm guessing the electronics are different?

Can you get any help from Google?

I found this on Miata.net:
================================================== ================
The HOLD light flashes a code similar to the Check Engine Light. You
can cancel the codes from memory by removing the negative battery cable
for at least 20 seconds and pressing the brake pedal. You might want to
try doing that first.

To pull the code, connect the TAT and GND terminals in the data link
connector with a jumper. Turn on the ignition, and the transmission
control module flashes the Hold light with the code. The codes are 2-
digit and are as follows for the 95 (I assume the 94 is the same):

06 - Vehicle speed sensor or circuit
12 - Throttle position sensor or circuit
55 - Input/turbine speed sensor or circuit
60 - Shift solenoid A or circuit
61 - Shift solenoid B or circuit
62 - Shift solenoid C or circuit
63 - Torque converter clutch control solenoid valve or circuit
62 - 3-2 control solenoid valve or circuit
================================================== ===========

Here is whe http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=267081

--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org

Thanks XSE11. How did you find that? I searched and searched and only
found talk of a flashing hold light while driving and nothing more. Sadly I
didn't watch the flashing hold light long enough to distinguish a code
pattern, just saw it as continuous blinking. It is at the shop and
connected to their computer... will know the results soon. Thanks again.

"XS11E" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Christopher Muto" > wrote:
>
>> It would seem logical that the flashing hold light would be some
>> sort of error code related to the transmission...
>
> Agreed, but as already mentioned there aren't too many automatic owners
> here and I'm guessing the electronics are different?
>
> Can you get any help from Google?
>
> I found this on Miata.net:
> ================================================== ================
> The HOLD light flashes a code similar to the Check Engine Light. You
> can cancel the codes from memory by removing the negative battery cable
> for at least 20 seconds and pressing the brake pedal. You might want to
> try doing that first.
>
> To pull the code, connect the TAT and GND terminals in the data link
> connector with a jumper. Turn on the ignition, and the transmission
> control module flashes the Hold light with the code. The codes are 2-
> digit and are as follows for the 95 (I assume the 94 is the same):
>
> 06 - Vehicle speed sensor or circuit
> 12 - Throttle position sensor or circuit
> 55 - Input/turbine speed sensor or circuit
> 60 - Shift solenoid A or circuit
> 61 - Shift solenoid B or circuit
> 62 - Shift solenoid C or circuit
> 63 - Torque converter clutch control solenoid valve or circuit
> 62 - 3-2 control solenoid valve or circuit
> ================================================== ===========
>
> Here is whe http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=267081
>
> --
> XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
> The Usenet Improvement Project:
> http://improve-usenet.org

"Christopher Muto" > wrote:

> Thanks XSE11. How did you find that? I searched and searched and
> only found talk of a flashing hold light while driving and nothing
> more. Sadly I didn't watch the flashing hold light long enough to
> distinguish a code pattern, just saw it as continuous blinking.
> It is at the shop and connected to their computer... will know
> the results soon. Thanks again.

I Googled Hold Light Flashes on MX5, it was about the 4th hit.


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://improve-usenet.org

"XS11E" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Christopher Muto" > wrote:
>
>> Thanks XSE11. How did you find that? I searched and searched and
>> only found talk of a flashing hold light while driving and nothing
>> more. Sadly I didn't watch the flashing hold light long enough to
>> distinguish a code pattern, just saw it as continuous blinking.
>> It is at the shop and connected to their computer... will know
>> the results soon. Thanks again.
>
> I Googled Hold Light Flashes on MX5, it was about the 4th hit.
>
>
> --
> XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
> The Usenet Improvement Project:
> http://improve-usenet.org

Interesting... I was searching with 'flashing' not 'flashes'.... but as it
turns out the light continiously blinked, no pattern to represent a code.
The main relay was replaced, and that made the flashing and other lights
appear normal again, but it still would not start. The coil pak registered
just 1v instead of 12v and so that was then replaced. Now things seem good
again. But no explanation as to what may have cause this failure.
Thanks everyone for you input. I appreciate all the help on this and from
the group in general. Regards,

In article > ,
"Christopher Muto" > wrote:

> The coil pak registered
> just 1v instead of 12v and so that was then replaced. Now things seem good
> again. But no explanation as to what may have cause this failure.

Did your tach vary erratically before the non-startage? The first sign
of poor grounds is the tach; the final sign is coil pack failure.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C