Do the tops of these pistons tell you anything?

I recently posted about a problem with my '89 Cressida, with water
loss presumably through the head gasket. I pulled the head today but
the metal portions of the gasket aren't broken per-se.

Here's a pic of the tops of the pistons. I notice the front 2 and back
1 seem to be cleaner around the outer perimter of the piston tops than
the middle 3. Possibly caused by steam cleaning?

http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/pistons/pistons.jpg

I can't see a crack in the piston walls with an eyeball check with the
pistons at bottom. A car I had that had a cracked block hd a very
obvious crack in the cylinder wall, should it be visible by visual
inspection if it were an issue?

If the gasket isn't broken and the block isn't cracked, and assuming
the head checks out, what else could it be? Do these pistons make you
suspect something in particular?

Thanks for all input.

Doc wrote:
> I recently posted about a problem with my '89 Cressida, with water
> loss presumably through the head gasket. I pulled the head today but
> the metal portions of the gasket aren't broken per-se.
>
> Here's a pic of the tops of the pistons. I notice the front 2 and back
> 1 seem to be cleaner around the outer perimter of the piston tops than
> the middle 3. Possibly caused by steam cleaning?
>
> http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/pistons/pistons.jpg
>
> I can't see a crack in the piston walls with an eyeball check with the
> pistons at bottom. A car I had that had a cracked block hd a very
> obvious crack in the cylinder wall, should it be visible by visual
> inspection if it were an issue?
>
> If the gasket isn't broken and the block isn't cracked, and assuming
> the head checks out, what else could it be? Do these pistons make you
> suspect something in particular?
>
> Thanks for all input.
>
Unless you notice the presence of water in the crankcase oil, it's
probably just leaking through the top end. How did the plugs look? I
think that it would be very unusual for a cracked cylinder wall,
especially if they are sleeved, but cracks can usually be seen.

On Wed, 30 May 2007 16:30:06 -0400, Ph@Boy wrote:

> Doc wrote:
>> I recently posted about a problem with my '89 Cressida, with water loss
>> presumably through the head gasket. I pulled the head today but the
>> metal portions of the gasket aren't broken per-se.
>>
>> Here's a pic of the tops of the pistons. I notice the front 2 and back 1
>> seem to be cleaner around the outer perimter of the piston tops than the
>> middle 3. Possibly caused by steam cleaning?
>>
>> http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/pistons/pistons.jpg
>>
>> I can't see a crack in the piston walls with an eyeball check with the
>> pistons at bottom. A car I had that had a cracked block hd a very
>> obvious crack in the cylinder wall, should it be visible by visual
>> inspection if it were an issue?
>>
>> If the gasket isn't broken and the block isn't cracked, and assuming the
>> head checks out, what else could it be? Do these pistons make you
>> suspect something in particular?
>>
>> Thanks for all input.
>>
> Unless you notice the presence of water in the crankcase oil, it's
> probably just leaking through the top end. How did the plugs look? I think
> that it would be very unusual for a cracked cylinder wall, especially if
> they are sleeved, but cracks can usually be seen.


I'm certainly no expert, but piston #1 looks exceptionally clean to me...

Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
> On Wed, 30 May 2007 16:30:06 -0400, Ph@Boy wrote:
>
>> Doc wrote:
>>> I recently posted about a problem with my '89 Cressida, with water loss
>>> presumably through the head gasket. I pulled the head today but the
>>> metal portions of the gasket aren't broken per-se.
>>>
>>> Here's a pic of the tops of the pistons. I notice the front 2 and back 1
>>> seem to be cleaner around the outer perimter of the piston tops than the
>>> middle 3. Possibly caused by steam cleaning?
>>>
>>> http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/pistons/pistons.jpg
>>>
>>> I can't see a crack in the piston walls with an eyeball check with the
>>> pistons at bottom. A car I had that had a cracked block hd a very
>>> obvious crack in the cylinder wall, should it be visible by visual
>>> inspection if it were an issue?
>>>
>>> If the gasket isn't broken and the block isn't cracked, and assuming the
>>> head checks out, what else could it be? Do these pistons make you
>>> suspect something in particular?
>>>
>>> Thanks for all input.
>>>
>> Unless you notice the presence of water in the crankcase oil, it's
>> probably just leaking through the top end. How did the plugs look? I think
>> that it would be very unusual for a cracked cylinder wall, especially if
>> they are sleeved, but cracks can usually be seen.
>
>
> I'm certainly no expert, but piston #1 looks exceptionally clean to me...
>
>
The "water injection" looks like it de-carbonized the top of the piston
a bit. I bet if you saw a pic of the head that combustion chamber would
look similar.

On Wed, 30 May 2007 17:49:05 -0400, Ph@Boy wrote:

> Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 May 2007 16:30:06 -0400, Ph@Boy wrote:
>>
>>> Doc wrote:
>>>> I recently posted about a problem with my '89 Cressida, with water
>>>> loss presumably through the head gasket. I pulled the head today but
>>>> the metal portions of the gasket aren't broken per-se.
>>>>
>>>> Here's a pic of the tops of the pistons. I notice the front 2 and back
>>>> 1 seem to be cleaner around the outer perimter of the piston tops than
>>>> the middle 3. Possibly caused by steam cleaning?
>>>>
>>>> http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/pistons/pistons.jpg
>>>>
>>>> I can't see a crack in the piston walls with an eyeball check with the
>>>> pistons at bottom. A car I had that had a cracked block hd a very
>>>> obvious crack in the cylinder wall, should it be visible by visual
>>>> inspection if it were an issue?
>>>>
>>>> If the gasket isn't broken and the block isn't cracked, and assuming
>>>> the head checks out, what else could it be? Do these pistons make you
>>>> suspect something in particular?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for all input.
>>>>
>>> Unless you notice the presence of water in the crankcase oil, it's
>>> probably just leaking through the top end. How did the plugs look? I
>>> think that it would be very unusual for a cracked cylinder wall,
>>> especially if they are sleeved, but cracks can usually be seen.
>>
>>
>> I'm certainly no expert, but piston #1 looks exceptionally clean to
>> me...
>>
>>
> The "water injection" looks like it de-carbonized the top of the piston a
> bit. I bet if you saw a pic of the head that combustion chamber would look
> similar.


Yup! That's what I was thinking!

"Doc" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I recently posted about a problem with my '89 Cressida, with water
> loss presumably through the head gasket. I pulled the head today but
> the metal portions of the gasket aren't broken per-se.
>
> Here's a pic of the tops of the pistons. I notice the front 2 and back
> 1 seem to be cleaner around the outer perimter of the piston tops than
> the middle 3. Possibly caused by steam cleaning?

Yes. A gasket can leak without a break in the gasket. If you look
carefully at the gasket, head, and block, you may be able to see where the
coolant was seeping past.
>
> http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/pistons/pistons.jpg
>
> I can't see a crack in the piston walls with an eyeball check with the
> pistons at bottom. A car I had that had a cracked block hd a very
> obvious crack in the cylinder wall, should it be visible by visual
> inspection if it were an issue?
>

Cracks are generally visible, but not 100% of the time. I doubt if the
block is cracked.

> If the gasket isn't broken and the block isn't cracked, and assuming
> the head checks out, what else could it be? Do these pistons make you
> suspect something in particular?
>
> Thanks for all input.
>

Head was not torqued sufficiently. When you replace the head, get new head
bolts.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Doc wrote:
> I recently posted about a problem with my '89 Cressida, with water
> loss presumably through the head gasket. I pulled the head today but
> the metal portions of the gasket aren't broken per-se.
>
> Here's a pic of the tops of the pistons. I notice the front 2 and back
> 1 seem to be cleaner around the outer perimter of the piston tops than
> the middle 3. Possibly caused by steam cleaning?
>
> http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/pistons/pistons.jpg
>
> I can't see a crack in the piston walls with an eyeball check with the
> pistons at bottom. A car I had that had a cracked block hd a very
> obvious crack in the cylinder wall, should it be visible by visual
> inspection if it were an issue?
>
> If the gasket isn't broken and the block isn't cracked, and assuming
> the head checks out, what else could it be? Do these pistons make you
> suspect something in particular?
>
> Thanks for all input.
>
How did the head bolts feel when you loosened them?

"Doc" > wrote in message oups.com...
>I recently posted about a problem with my '89 Cressida, with water
> loss presumably through the head gasket. I pulled the head today but
> the metal portions of the gasket aren't broken per-se.
>
> Here's a pic of the tops of the pistons. I notice the front 2 and back
> 1 seem to be cleaner around the outer perimter of the piston tops than
> the middle 3. Possibly caused by steam cleaning?
>
> http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/pistons/pistons.jpg
>
> I can't see a crack in the piston walls with an eyeball check with the
> pistons at bottom. A car I had that had a cracked block hd a very
> obvious crack in the cylinder wall, should it be visible by visual
> inspection if it were an issue?
>
> If the gasket isn't broken and the block isn't cracked, and assuming
> the head checks out, what else could it be? Do these pistons make you
> suspect something in particular?
>
> Thanks for all input.


May not help but here are some photo's of mine. I never found anything that
I could even remotely see as a cause. Or damaged for that matter.

http://us.f13.yahoofs.com/bc/43ec669...er/Toyota+BHG/
http://us.f13.yahoofs.com/bc/43ec669...HG_gasket2.jpg


Even the head bolts had the correct tension so for lack of a better answer
58lbs must just be wrong. But why out of the clear blue sky after 15+ years and
one hundred and some odd miles it would give out I sure dont know.

Lucky for me it had just passed it CA smog test and I happend to notice the
exaust while waxing the car so it never really was driven like that and the head was
still ok.

Dan

"Danny G." > wrote in message et...
>
> "Doc" > wrote in message oups.com...
>>I recently posted about a problem with my '89 Cressida, with water
>> loss presumably through the head gasket. I pulled the head today but
>> the metal portions of the gasket aren't broken per-se.
>>
>> Here's a pic of the tops of the pistons. I notice the front 2 and back
>> 1 seem to be cleaner around the outer perimter of the piston tops than
>> the middle 3. Possibly caused by steam cleaning?
>>
>> http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/pistons/pistons.jpg
>>
>> I can't see a crack in the piston walls with an eyeball check with the
>> pistons at bottom. A car I had that had a cracked block hd a very
>> obvious crack in the cylinder wall, should it be visible by visual
>> inspection if it were an issue?
>>
>> If the gasket isn't broken and the block isn't cracked, and assuming
>> the head checks out, what else could it be? Do these pistons make you
>> suspect something in particular?
>>
>> Thanks for all input.
>
>
> May not help but here are some photo's of mine. I never found anything that
> I could even remotely see as a cause. Or damaged for that matter.
>
> http://us.f13.yahoofs.com/bc/43ec669...er/Toyota+BHG/
> http://us.f13.yahoofs.com/bc/43ec669...HG_gasket2.jpg
>

grrr... there in the Junk Drawer folder.


>
> Even the head bolts had the correct tension so for lack of a better answer
> 58lbs must just be wrong. But why out of the clear blue sky after 15+ years and
> one hundred and some odd miles it would give out I sure dont know.
>
> Lucky for me it had just passed it CA smog test and I happend to notice the
> exaust while waxing the car so it never really was driven like that and the head was
> still ok.
>
> Dan
>
>

On May 30, 3:15 pm, Doc > wrote:
> I recently posted about a problem with my '89 Cressida, with water
> loss presumably through the head gasket. I pulled the head today but
> the metal portions of the gasket aren't broken per-se.
>
> Here's a pic of the tops of the pistons. I notice the front 2 and back
> 1 seem to be cleaner around the outer perimter of the piston tops than
> the middle 3. Possibly caused by steam cleaning?
>
> http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/pistons/pistons.jpg
>
> I can't see a crack in the piston walls with an eyeball check with the
> pistons at bottom. A car I had that had a cracked block hd a very
> obvious crack in the cylinder wall, should it be visible by visual
> inspection if it were an issue?
>
> If the gasket isn't broken and the block isn't cracked, and assuming
> the head checks out, what else could it be? Do these pistons make you
> suspect something in particular?
>
> Thanks for all input.

The pictures are not in high enough detail for me to determine whether
it is coolant washing or oil consumption past the rings that is
causing the appearance on pistons #1 and #6. Since you mentioned that
you are losing coolant, I would assume that it is coolant that has
"steam cleaned" the pistons, but the pattern is more reminiscent of
oil consumption IMO. There's no law that says you can't have two
problems at once. The headgasket failing at cyl #6 is extremely
common. If I saw it in person I could likely point out the failure
spot(s). I would say that a crack in the head or block is highly
unlikely.

I would hand scraper the old gasket material off carefully, check deck
and head with a straight edge, and machine the head if necessary
before reassembling. Also, now is the time to think about new rings.
This engine can be re-ringed in the car, but it is a big job.

Google alternate aftermarket head gasket technologies and torque
specs. I have had good success with the factory parts/procedure, but
I have no choice when working at the dealer. Better stuff is out
there.

Toyota MDT in MO