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Problems keeping Gold Rams alive



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 1st 05, 10:49 PM
Gill Passman
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Posts: n/a
Default Problems keeping Gold Rams alive

Initially I bought 3 Gold Rams and put them in the main tank. Within 4 hours
2 of them had died. There was a very slight trace of ammonia (and I'm
talking hardly off the scale) so I moved the remaining Gold Ram to my son's
tank where it was very happy.

Once the ammonia settled down and all readings were 0 apart from the PH
which was between 7.0 and 7.5 I bought another Gold Ram for the main tank.
Again he was very happy.

My son then wanted a Betta for his tank which we bought. The Gold Ram in
that tank bullied the Betta so we moved him into the main tank downstairs.
Within a few days he started to be unwell....I tested the water and all was
fine and moved him to the "hospital" where I treated him for the "Pop-eye"
he had developed. Unfortunately it was too late. About 2 weeks later the
second Gold Ram went downhill very rapidly and before I had a chance to move
him (power cut coinciding with me spotting this) he had died.

So what I have, is two seemingly healthy Rams that cannot cope with life in
the main tank. Firstly I suspected the PH but my LFS who sold me the fish
has the same PH and they have been allowed plenty time to adapt to this.
Additionally, they seemed to cope when they were on their own - one in the
main tank and one in my son's tank.

Now, my son wants to set up his "new tank" - he has MTS (just like me). But
he wants to be able to prove he can keep Gold Ram so I need some hints to
help him achieve this. Part of my theory is this might relate to stress and
bullying going on elsewhere in the main tank but I need to be sure it might
not be anything else.

The main tank has the following inhabitants/history

4 Blue 3 Spot Gouramis - at the time of the initial introduction there where
2 males and 1 female. Another 2 females were introduced. Just prior to the
demise of the first Gold Ram the non-dominant male was killed by the
Dominant male

6 Platys - breeeding quite happily as platy's do :-)

6 Clown Loaches - the two largest starting to fight it out (in a friendly
way of course) for dominant fish. All resolved before the second Ram died.

5 Fantail Guppies - all male but not very aggressive

A number of Neon Tetras - was 11 but hard to count how many are in there
right now

1 fry - presumed to be Platy

The tank is 47.5 UK gall so enough space I believe....

I do not want to put any more Rams into this tank, as much as I love them.
But I would be interested to hear if anyone has any theories as to what went
wrong especially if my son is going to attempt to keep them? Could it be
down to stress in the tank which is the only theory any of us can come up
with?

I would welcome your opinions as I really like these fish and would love
either me or my son to be able to keep them successfully.

Thanks
Gill


  #2  
Old February 2nd 05, 04:59 PM
Kay
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Gill Passman wrote:
Initially I bought 3 Gold Rams and put them in the main tank. Within 4 hours
2 of them had died. There was a very slight trace of ammonia (and I'm
talking hardly off the scale) so I moved the remaining Gold Ram to my son's
tank where it was very happy.

Once the ammonia settled down and all readings were 0 apart from the PH
which was between 7.0 and 7.5 I bought another Gold Ram for the main tank.
Again he was very happy.

My son then wanted a Betta for his tank which we bought. The Gold Ram in
that tank bullied the Betta so we moved him into the main tank downstairs.
Within a few days he started to be unwell....I tested the water and all was
fine and moved him to the "hospital" where I treated him for the "Pop-eye"
he had developed. Unfortunately it was too late. About 2 weeks later the
second Gold Ram went downhill very rapidly and before I had a chance to move
him (power cut coinciding with me spotting this) he had died.

So what I have, is two seemingly healthy Rams that cannot cope with life in
the main tank. Firstly I suspected the PH but my LFS who sold me the fish
has the same PH and they have been allowed plenty time to adapt to this.
Additionally, they seemed to cope when they were on their own - one in the
main tank and one in my son's tank.

Now, my son wants to set up his "new tank" - he has MTS (just like me). But
he wants to be able to prove he can keep Gold Ram so I need some hints to
help him achieve this. Part of my theory is this might relate to stress and
bullying going on elsewhere in the main tank but I need to be sure it might
not be anything else.

The main tank has the following inhabitants/history

4 Blue 3 Spot Gouramis - at the time of the initial introduction there where
2 males and 1 female. Another 2 females were introduced. Just prior to the
demise of the first Gold Ram the non-dominant male was killed by the
Dominant male

6 Platys - breeeding quite happily as platy's do :-)

6 Clown Loaches - the two largest starting to fight it out (in a friendly
way of course) for dominant fish. All resolved before the second Ram died.

5 Fantail Guppies - all male but not very aggressive

A number of Neon Tetras - was 11 but hard to count how many are in there
right now

1 fry - presumed to be Platy

The tank is 47.5 UK gall so enough space I believe....

I do not want to put any more Rams into this tank, as much as I love them.
But I would be interested to hear if anyone has any theories as to what went
wrong especially if my son is going to attempt to keep them? Could it be
down to stress in the tank which is the only theory any of us can come up
with?

I would welcome your opinions as I really like these fish and would love
either me or my son to be able to keep them successfully.


I hope someone answers this cause I have tried to keep gold rams and
blue ones and well they died. Yet I had no problem with Bolivian Rams.
All I know is German rams like soft water and very clean water. Bolivian
Rams can do well in my water which is hard. I have tried to soften the
water and the German Rams still died, I have tried different places also.

Kay
  #3  
Old February 2nd 05, 06:03 PM
steve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Gill Passman wrote:
Initially I bought 3 Gold Rams and put them in the main tank. Within

4 hours
2 of them had died. There was a very slight trace of ammonia (and I'm
talking hardly off the scale) so I moved the remaining Gold Ram to my

son's
tank where it was very happy.


At first glance, I'd say it was stress, probably related to water, most
likely high nitrates and/or the ammonia.


Once the ammonia settled down and all readings were 0 apart from the

PH
which was between 7.0 and 7.5 I bought another Gold Ram for the main

tank.
Again he was very happy.

My son then wanted a Betta for his tank which we bought. The Gold Ram

in
that tank bullied the Betta so we moved him into the main tank

downstairs.
Within a few days he started to be unwell....I tested the water and

all was
fine and moved him to the "hospital" where I treated him for the

"Pop-eye"
he had developed. Unfortunately it was too late. About 2 weeks later

the
second Gold Ram went downhill very rapidly and before I had a chance

to move
him (power cut coinciding with me spotting this) he had died.


Again I bet it was water, and maybe even bullying by the already
established inhabitants.


The main tank has the following inhabitants/history

4 Blue 3 Spot Gouramis - at the time of the initial introduction

there where
2 males and 1 female. Another 2 females were introduced. Just prior

to the
demise of the first Gold Ram the non-dominant male was killed by the
Dominant male

6 Platys - breeeding quite happily as platy's do :-)

6 Clown Loaches - the two largest starting to fight it out (in a

friendly
way of course) for dominant fish. All resolved before the second Ram

died.

5 Fantail Guppies - all male but not very aggressive

A number of Neon Tetras - was 11 but hard to count how many are in

there
right now

1 fry - presumed to be Platy

The tank is 47.5 UK gall so enough space I believe....


I think that is alot of fish for that size tank. You don't mention
plants, got any? And related to the deaths and the bioload in the
tank, I think a nitrate test kit is a must have for you. Check that
and we may find the culprit.

Thanks
Gill


You're welcome. These are just my opinions, I'm not a Ram breeder nor
an expert. It just seems like the most plausible explanation to me.
steve

  #4  
Old February 2nd 05, 07:30 PM
Gill Passman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"steve" wrote in message
oups.com...

Gill Passman wrote:
Initially I bought 3 Gold Rams and put them in the main tank. Within

4 hours
2 of them had died. There was a very slight trace of ammonia (and I'm
talking hardly off the scale) so I moved the remaining Gold Ram to my

son's
tank where it was very happy.


At first glance, I'd say it was stress, probably related to water, most
likely high nitrates and/or the ammonia.


Once the ammonia settled down and all readings were 0 apart from the

PH
which was between 7.0 and 7.5 I bought another Gold Ram for the main

tank.
Again he was very happy.

My son then wanted a Betta for his tank which we bought. The Gold Ram

in
that tank bullied the Betta so we moved him into the main tank

downstairs.
Within a few days he started to be unwell....I tested the water and

all was
fine and moved him to the "hospital" where I treated him for the

"Pop-eye"
he had developed. Unfortunately it was too late. About 2 weeks later

the
second Gold Ram went downhill very rapidly and before I had a chance

to move
him (power cut coinciding with me spotting this) he had died.


Again I bet it was water, and maybe even bullying by the already
established inhabitants.


The main tank has the following inhabitants/history

4 Blue 3 Spot Gouramis - at the time of the initial introduction

there where
2 males and 1 female. Another 2 females were introduced. Just prior

to the
demise of the first Gold Ram the non-dominant male was killed by the
Dominant male

6 Platys - breeeding quite happily as platy's do :-)

6 Clown Loaches - the two largest starting to fight it out (in a

friendly
way of course) for dominant fish. All resolved before the second Ram

died.

5 Fantail Guppies - all male but not very aggressive

A number of Neon Tetras - was 11 but hard to count how many are in

there
right now

1 fry - presumed to be Platy

The tank is 47.5 UK gall so enough space I believe....


I think that is alot of fish for that size tank. You don't mention
plants, got any? And related to the deaths and the bioload in the
tank, I think a nitrate test kit is a must have for you. Check that
and we may find the culprit.

Thanks
Gill


You're welcome. These are just my opinions, I'm not a Ram breeder nor
an expert. It just seems like the most plausible explanation to me.
steve


Hi,
Tank is fully planted. I do water quality tests at least once a week -
everything is 0 (nitrites, nitrates and ammonia) apart from the PH which is
7.0 - 7.5. Tank has been up since beginning of September and after the
initial cycle and one minor ammonia glitch were the reading was 0.6 which
got fixed months ago these readings are consistent. I checked the water
quality on all three occassions when I lost the fish and it was only when I
originally put in the 3 Rams when the ammonia was 0.6 - everything else was
zero. We do a 20% water change once a week plus add Cycle and Waste Control
occassionally. So it's not water unless it is down to the PH and the fact we
have hard water - so does LFS and everyone else local.

Got a Fluval 4 Internal filter and a Fluval 304 External so filtration
shouldn't be an issue.

Agression is an issue with the Gouramis but one of the Gold Rams lived
happily in that tank for 2 months until I put the original one back. When
the two were in together they pretty much left eachother alone.


Gill




  #5  
Old February 2nd 05, 10:40 PM
Big John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

What is the temp.of the tank.Rams like warm water 80-84.
"Gill Passman" wrote in message
.. .
Initially I bought 3 Gold Rams and put them in the main tank. Within 4
hours
2 of them had died. There was a very slight trace of ammonia (and I'm
talking hardly off the scale) so I moved the remaining Gold Ram to my
son's
tank where it was very happy.

Once the ammonia settled down and all readings were 0 apart from the PH
which was between 7.0 and 7.5 I bought another Gold Ram for the main tank.
Again he was very happy.

My son then wanted a Betta for his tank which we bought. The Gold Ram in
that tank bullied the Betta so we moved him into the main tank downstairs.
Within a few days he started to be unwell....I tested the water and all
was
fine and moved him to the "hospital" where I treated him for the "Pop-eye"
he had developed. Unfortunately it was too late. About 2 weeks later the
second Gold Ram went downhill very rapidly and before I had a chance to
move
him (power cut coinciding with me spotting this) he had died.

So what I have, is two seemingly healthy Rams that cannot cope with life
in
the main tank. Firstly I suspected the PH but my LFS who sold me the fish
has the same PH and they have been allowed plenty time to adapt to this.
Additionally, they seemed to cope when they were on their own - one in the
main tank and one in my son's tank.

Now, my son wants to set up his "new tank" - he has MTS (just like me).
But
he wants to be able to prove he can keep Gold Ram so I need some hints to
help him achieve this. Part of my theory is this might relate to stress
and
bullying going on elsewhere in the main tank but I need to be sure it
might
not be anything else.

The main tank has the following inhabitants/history

4 Blue 3 Spot Gouramis - at the time of the initial introduction there
where
2 males and 1 female. Another 2 females were introduced. Just prior to the
demise of the first Gold Ram the non-dominant male was killed by the
Dominant male

6 Platys - breeeding quite happily as platy's do :-)

6 Clown Loaches - the two largest starting to fight it out (in a friendly
way of course) for dominant fish. All resolved before the second Ram died.

5 Fantail Guppies - all male but not very aggressive

A number of Neon Tetras - was 11 but hard to count how many are in there
right now

1 fry - presumed to be Platy

The tank is 47.5 UK gall so enough space I believe....

I do not want to put any more Rams into this tank, as much as I love them.
But I would be interested to hear if anyone has any theories as to what
went
wrong especially if my son is going to attempt to keep them? Could it be
down to stress in the tank which is the only theory any of us can come up
with?

I would welcome your opinions as I really like these fish and would love
either me or my son to be able to keep them successfully.

Thanks
Gill




  #6  
Old February 2nd 05, 10:57 PM
Gill Passman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

At the time of the problem with the latest two Rams the tank was up to 80 as
I was treating an ich breakout on my Clown Loaches....



"Big John" wrote in message
...
What is the temp.of the tank.Rams like warm water 80-84.
"Gill Passman" wrote in message
.. .
Initially I bought 3 Gold Rams and put them in the main tank. Within 4
hours
2 of them had died. There was a very slight trace of ammonia (and I'm
talking hardly off the scale) so I moved the remaining Gold Ram to my
son's
tank where it was very happy.

Once the ammonia settled down and all readings were 0 apart from the PH
which was between 7.0 and 7.5 I bought another Gold Ram for the main

tank.
Again he was very happy.

My son then wanted a Betta for his tank which we bought. The Gold Ram in
that tank bullied the Betta so we moved him into the main tank

downstairs.
Within a few days he started to be unwell....I tested the water and all
was
fine and moved him to the "hospital" where I treated him for the

"Pop-eye"
he had developed. Unfortunately it was too late. About 2 weeks later the
second Gold Ram went downhill very rapidly and before I had a chance to
move
him (power cut coinciding with me spotting this) he had died.

So what I have, is two seemingly healthy Rams that cannot cope with life
in
the main tank. Firstly I suspected the PH but my LFS who sold me the

fish
has the same PH and they have been allowed plenty time to adapt to this.
Additionally, they seemed to cope when they were on their own - one in

the
main tank and one in my son's tank.

Now, my son wants to set up his "new tank" - he has MTS (just like me).
But
he wants to be able to prove he can keep Gold Ram so I need some hints

to
help him achieve this. Part of my theory is this might relate to stress
and
bullying going on elsewhere in the main tank but I need to be sure it
might
not be anything else.

The main tank has the following inhabitants/history

4 Blue 3 Spot Gouramis - at the time of the initial introduction there
where
2 males and 1 female. Another 2 females were introduced. Just prior to

the
demise of the first Gold Ram the non-dominant male was killed by the
Dominant male

6 Platys - breeeding quite happily as platy's do :-)

6 Clown Loaches - the two largest starting to fight it out (in a

friendly
way of course) for dominant fish. All resolved before the second Ram

died.

5 Fantail Guppies - all male but not very aggressive

A number of Neon Tetras - was 11 but hard to count how many are in there
right now

1 fry - presumed to be Platy

The tank is 47.5 UK gall so enough space I believe....

I do not want to put any more Rams into this tank, as much as I love

them.
But I would be interested to hear if anyone has any theories as to what
went
wrong especially if my son is going to attempt to keep them? Could it be
down to stress in the tank which is the only theory any of us can come

up
with?

I would welcome your opinions as I really like these fish and would love
either me or my son to be able to keep them successfully.

Thanks
Gill






  #7  
Old February 3rd 05, 12:14 AM
Gill Passman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Steve,

I'm just curious as to what point you think that this tank is
overstocked.?..With the exception of the larger clown loaches (2 x 3"0) and
the Gouramis, the fish are pretty small. So if you are looking at inches per
square surface area I've actually been quite good.

The current stock is:-

6 Platy's plus one baby growing well - max size I/2 inch
5 Guppies - max size approx 1/4 inch
4 Blue Spot Gouramis - max size 1.5 inches
6 Platys - max size 1/2 inch
6 mixed clown loaches - 2 are approx 3 inches the rest around 3/4 inch max
mainly 1/2 inch
8 to 9 Neon tetras - max size is 1/8 inch

I also have now a Clown Pl*co....his max size will be 5 inches...he is now
about 4.5 inches (I have an algae prob plus fell in love with him)

It is a 1200mm tank x 600 high x 450 deep

I bought Mr Pleck post the demise of my Rams so he isn't in the picture

Gill

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
.. .

"steve" wrote in message
oups.com...

Gill Passman wrote:
Initially I bought 3 Gold Rams and put them in the main tank. Within

4 hours
2 of them had died. There was a very slight trace of ammonia (and I'm
talking hardly off the scale) so I moved the remaining Gold Ram to my

son's
tank where it was very happy.


At first glance, I'd say it was stress, probably related to water, most
likely high nitrates and/or the ammonia.


Once the ammonia settled down and all readings were 0 apart from the

PH
which was between 7.0 and 7.5 I bought another Gold Ram for the main

tank.
Again he was very happy.

My son then wanted a Betta for his tank which we bought. The Gold Ram

in
that tank bullied the Betta so we moved him into the main tank

downstairs.
Within a few days he started to be unwell....I tested the water and

all was
fine and moved him to the "hospital" where I treated him for the

"Pop-eye"
he had developed. Unfortunately it was too late. About 2 weeks later

the
second Gold Ram went downhill very rapidly and before I had a chance

to move
him (power cut coinciding with me spotting this) he had died.


Again I bet it was water, and maybe even bullying by the already
established inhabitants.


The main tank has the following inhabitants/history

4 Blue 3 Spot Gouramis - at the time of the initial introduction

there where
2 males and 1 female. Another 2 females were introduced. Just prior

to the
demise of the first Gold Ram the non-dominant male was killed by the
Dominant male

6 Platys - breeeding quite happily as platy's do :-)

6 Clown Loaches - the two largest starting to fight it out (in a

friendly
way of course) for dominant fish. All resolved before the second Ram

died.

5 Fantail Guppies - all male but not very aggressive

A number of Neon Tetras - was 11 but hard to count how many are in

there
right now

1 fry - presumed to be Platy

The tank is 47.5 UK gall so enough space I believe....


I think that is alot of fish for that size tank. You don't mention
plants, got any? And related to the deaths and the bioload in the
tank, I think a nitrate test kit is a must have for you. Check that
and we may find the culprit.

Thanks
Gill


You're welcome. These are just my opinions, I'm not a Ram breeder nor
an expert. It just seems like the most plausible explanation to me.
steve


Hi,
Tank is fully planted. I do water quality tests at least once a week -
everything is 0 (nitrites, nitrates and ammonia) apart from the PH which

is
7.0 - 7.5. Tank has been up since beginning of September and after the
initial cycle and one minor ammonia glitch were the reading was 0.6 which
got fixed months ago these readings are consistent. I checked the water
quality on all three occassions when I lost the fish and it was only when

I
originally put in the 3 Rams when the ammonia was 0.6 - everything else

was
zero. We do a 20% water change once a week plus add Cycle and Waste

Control
occassionally. So it's not water unless it is down to the PH and the fact

we
have hard water - so does LFS and everyone else local.

Got a Fluval 4 Internal filter and a Fluval 304 External so filtration
shouldn't be an issue.

Agression is an issue with the Gouramis but one of the Gold Rams lived
happily in that tank for 2 months until I put the original one back. When
the two were in together they pretty much left eachother alone.


Gill






  #8  
Old February 3rd 05, 12:38 PM
Craig
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

i kept one male gold ram many years ago, they are quite hardy fish (i
was a real novice and they stood all my mistakes)

my guess would be that, as the demand has increased the fishes immune
system has been badly damaged by inbreeding. i wager youll just have got
a bad batch from the LFS.

see if you can get one or two from another source.

Good luck Craig



--
Posted via CichlidFish.com
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  #9  
Old February 3rd 05, 02:51 PM
steve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Gill Passman wrote:
Hi Steve,

I'm just curious as to what point you think that this tank is
overstocked.?..With the exception of the larger clown loaches (2 x

3"0) and
the Gouramis, the fish are pretty small. So if you are looking at

inches per
square surface area I've actually been quite good.

The current stock is:-

6 Platy's plus one baby growing well - max size I/2 inch
5 Guppies - max size approx 1/4 inch
4 Blue Spot Gouramis - max size 1.5 inches
6 Platys - max size 1/2 inch
6 mixed clown loaches - 2 are approx 3 inches the rest around 3/4

inch max
mainly 1/2 inch
8 to 9 Neon tetras - max size is 1/8 inch



I guess I measure fish inches different than you do. I measure their
length, not their width. So, without seeing your fish, I estimated
them to be:

6 platys at 1.5 inch each, 9 inches
5 gups at 1 inch each 5 inches
4 gourmis at 2 inch each 8 inches
6 clowns at 3 inches 18 inches
8 neons at 1 inch 8 inches

I get 48 fish inches. That's about right for a heavily stocked 55 US
gallon aquarium.

steve

  #10  
Old February 3rd 05, 07:11 PM
Gill Passman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"steve" wrote in message
ups.com...

Gill Passman wrote:
Hi Steve,

I'm just curious as to what point you think that this tank is
overstocked.?..With the exception of the larger clown loaches (2 x

3"0) and
the Gouramis, the fish are pretty small. So if you are looking at

inches per
square surface area I've actually been quite good.

The current stock is:-

6 Platy's plus one baby growing well - max size I/2 inch
5 Guppies - max size approx 1/4 inch
4 Blue Spot Gouramis - max size 1.5 inches
6 Platys - max size 1/2 inch
6 mixed clown loaches - 2 are approx 3 inches the rest around 3/4

inch max
mainly 1/2 inch
8 to 9 Neon tetras - max size is 1/8 inch



I guess I measure fish inches different than you do. I measure their
length, not their width. So, without seeing your fish, I estimated
them to be:

6 platys at 1.5 inch each, 9 inches
5 gups at 1 inch each 5 inches
4 gourmis at 2 inch each 8 inches
6 clowns at 3 inches 18 inches
8 neons at 1 inch 8 inches

I get 48 fish inches. That's about right for a heavily stocked 55 US
gallon aquarium.

steve


If I was looking at width with the figures I gave I'd have some pretty fat
fish :-)

Excluding tails:-

6 platys 0.5 inches - 3 inches
5 gups at 0.25 inches - 1.25 inches
4 gouramis at 1.5 inches - 6 inches
2 clowns at 3 inches - 6 inches
4 clowns at 0.75 inches - 3 inches
8 neons at lets say 0.5 inches - 4 inches

That gives me say 24 fish inches. If you count tails in this then yes it is
more.

Also bear in mind UK gallons are more than US gallons - just did a UK to US
gallon conversion and my tank is 57 US gallons.

Gill


 




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