headlights cut out after battery jump; engine breaks up

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 17:35:01 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern"
> wrote:

>On Sun, 2 Jan 2005, john wrote:
>
>> I swapped them in the alternator and wiring harness, and viola, the
>> voltmeter in the dash now reads about 16 volts right at startup. It
>> looks like that was the fix.
>
>Yep, looks like it. Good work. Keep an eye on it and when you get the
>chance, use a known-good voltmeter to measure the actual voltage across
>the battery with the engine idling. 16v is too high and will make problems
>(boil the battery, blow light bulbs).

Danny, you and I seem to be singing from the same sheet of music. I
just sent the same message.

Lg


>
>> Thanks again, everyone, you were a great help, especially you Daniel
>> Stern, for talking me through the codes and stuff.
>
>No problem.
>
>DS
>(Comboverfish: THPTHPTHPTHPTHPTHT!)

> Agreed, and I have plenty of used parts on my vehicke as well, but for
> certain parts, I would definitely go with new....for instance.... I
wouldn't
> put a used battery on mine, distributor cap, or wires, or spark plugs...

>Wrecking yards are terrific places to pick up excellent used batteries at
>bargain prices. All you have to do is read the label and find something
>fresh.

> starter

>Depending on the specific type in question, used starters are fine.

> As for an alternator, I would just put on a new one and be done even
> though it cost a little more.

>The problem is that you don't really mean "new" here, you mean
>"remanufactured", as from a parts store. A *new* alternator would cost a
>great deal more, and the remanufactured items from the parts store give
>dismal reliability. So my philosophy is: Carefully-selected used, yes.
>Carefully-rebuilt, yes. New, yes. Remanufactured, no.

>DS

I guess we are on the same page as far as everything is concerned, with
the exception of remanufactured..... I always thought remanufactured was
something that was brought back to factory specs......looks like i ve been
misled all these years........ what exactly is remanufactured??

Fwed

Lawrence Glickman wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 17:35:01 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>On Sun, 2 Jan 2005, john wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I swapped them in the alternator and wiring harness, and viola, the
>>>voltmeter in the dash now reads about 16 volts right at startup. It
>>>looks like that was the fix.
>>
>>Yep, looks like it. Good work. Keep an eye on it and when you get the
>>chance, use a known-good voltmeter to measure the actual voltage across
>>the battery with the engine idling. 16v is too high and will make problems
>>(boil the battery, blow light bulbs).
>
>
> Danny, you and I seem to be singing from the same sheet of music. I
> just sent the same message.
>
> Lg
>
>
>
>>>Thanks again, everyone, you were a great help, especially you Daniel
>>>Stern, for talking me through the codes and stuff.
>>
>>No problem.
>>
>>DS
>>(Comboverfish: THPTHPTHPTHPTHPTHT!)
>
>
Not only boil the battery but will blow a ton of fuses on anything that
gets powered on, radio etc. If this is an alternator with the regulator
built in, then its bad. You should put a good voltmeter across the
battery with the car running to be sure.

On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 18:53:24 -0500, "fweddybear" >
wrote:

>> Agreed, and I have plenty of used parts on my vehicke as well, but for
>> certain parts, I would definitely go with new....for instance.... I
>wouldn't
>> put a used battery on mine, distributor cap, or wires, or spark plugs...
>
>>Wrecking yards are terrific places to pick up excellent used batteries at
>>bargain prices. All you have to do is read the label and find something
>>fresh.
>
>> starter
>
>>Depending on the specific type in question, used starters are fine.
>
>> As for an alternator, I would just put on a new one and be done even
>> though it cost a little more.
>
>>The problem is that you don't really mean "new" here, you mean
>>"remanufactured", as from a parts store. A *new* alternator would cost a
>>great deal more, and the remanufactured items from the parts store give
>>dismal reliability. So my philosophy is: Carefully-selected used, yes.
>>Carefully-rebuilt, yes. New, yes. Remanufactured, no.
>
>>DS
>
> I guess we are on the same page as far as everything is concerned, with
>the exception of remanufactured..... I always thought remanufactured was
>something that was brought back to factory specs......looks like i ve been
>misled all these years........ what exactly is remanufactured??
>
>Fwed

For an alternator, at least bearings, brushes, diodes, at the very
least. New slip rings. But you don't _know_. Unless you want to
take it apart, and if you have to disassemble everything you buy at
the parts store to see if it is good to go, toss the car and take the
bus.

Lg

Lawrence Glickman wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 18:53:24 -0500, "fweddybear" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>> Agreed, and I have plenty of used parts on my vehicke as well, but for
>>>certain parts, I would definitely go with new....for instance.... I
>>
>>wouldn't
>>
>>>put a used battery on mine, distributor cap, or wires, or spark plugs...
>>
>>>Wrecking yards are terrific places to pick up excellent used batteries at
>>>bargain prices. All you have to do is read the label and find something
>>>fresh.
>>
>>>starter
>>
>>>Depending on the specific type in question, used starters are fine.
>>
>>>As for an alternator, I would just put on a new one and be done even
>>>though it cost a little more.
>>
>>>The problem is that you don't really mean "new" here, you mean
>>>"remanufactured", as from a parts store. A *new* alternator would cost a
>>>great deal more, and the remanufactured items from the parts store give
>>>dismal reliability. So my philosophy is: Carefully-selected used, yes.
>>>Carefully-rebuilt, yes. New, yes. Remanufactured, no.
>>
>>>DS
>>
>> I guess we are on the same page as far as everything is concerned, with
>>the exception of remanufactured..... I always thought remanufactured was
>>something that was brought back to factory specs......looks like i ve been
>>misled all these years........ what exactly is remanufactured??
>>
>>Fwed
>
>
> For an alternator, at least bearings, brushes, diodes, at the very
> least. New slip rings. But you don't _know_. Unless you want to
> take it apart, and if you have to disassemble everything you buy at
> the parts store to see if it is good to go, toss the car and take the
> bus.
>
> Lg
>

I've actually been known to do that... (at least peer inside parts
store stuff very critically, that is - not toss the car, AFAIK every car
I've ever owned is still on the road today.)

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 00:31:58 GMT, ed > wrote:

>Not only boil the battery but will blow a ton of fuses on anything that
>gets powered on, radio etc. If this is an alternator with the regulator
>built in, then its bad. You should put a good voltmeter across the
>battery with the car running to be sure.

Absolutely _agree_.

You would think that is the case, I have seen some rebuilds/remanufactured
units just cleaned and painted, alt brushes completly worn down and sold as
a rebuilt, a/c compressor housings so worn out you they wont hold the air
gap between the clutch and pulley and burn out within weeks of installation,
me personnally, I stay away from all rebuilds and will not do any side jobs
or repairs at the shop with any aftermarket/rebuild parts, and if i ever had
to use them the only gaurantee I would give is that the part wont fall
off.......My opinion
"fweddybear" > wrote in message
news:ML%Bd.22270$jn.7090@lakeread06...
> > Agreed, and I have plenty of used parts on my vehicke as well, but
for
> > certain parts, I would definitely go with new....for instance.... I
> wouldn't
> > put a used battery on mine, distributor cap, or wires, or spark plugs...
>
> >Wrecking yards are terrific places to pick up excellent used batteries at
> >bargain prices. All you have to do is read the label and find something
> >fresh.
>
> > starter
>
> >Depending on the specific type in question, used starters are fine.
>
> > As for an alternator, I would just put on a new one and be done even
> > though it cost a little more.
>
> >The problem is that you don't really mean "new" here, you mean
> >"remanufactured", as from a parts store. A *new* alternator would cost a
> >great deal more, and the remanufactured items from the parts store give
> >dismal reliability. So my philosophy is: Carefully-selected used, yes.
> >Carefully-rebuilt, yes. New, yes. Remanufactured, no.
>
> >DS
>
> I guess we are on the same page as far as everything is concerned,
with
> the exception of remanufactured..... I always thought remanufactured was
> something that was brought back to factory specs......looks like i ve been
> misled all these years........ what exactly is remanufactured??
>
> Fwed
>
>

On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 19:47:46 -0500, Nate Nagel >
wrote:

>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 18:53:24 -0500, "fweddybear" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Agreed, and I have plenty of used parts on my vehicke as well, but for
>>>>certain parts, I would definitely go with new....for instance.... I
>>>
>>>wouldn't
>>>
>>>>put a used battery on mine, distributor cap, or wires, or spark plugs...
>>>
>>>>Wrecking yards are terrific places to pick up excellent used batteries at
>>>>bargain prices. All you have to do is read the label and find something
>>>>fresh.
>>>
>>>>starter
>>>
>>>>Depending on the specific type in question, used starters are fine.
>>>
>>>>As for an alternator, I would just put on a new one and be done even
>>>>though it cost a little more.
>>>
>>>>The problem is that you don't really mean "new" here, you mean
>>>>"remanufactured", as from a parts store. A *new* alternator would cost a
>>>>great deal more, and the remanufactured items from the parts store give
>>>>dismal reliability. So my philosophy is: Carefully-selected used, yes.
>>>>Carefully-rebuilt, yes. New, yes. Remanufactured, no.
>>>
>>>>DS
>>>
>>> I guess we are on the same page as far as everything is concerned, with
>>>the exception of remanufactured..... I always thought remanufactured was
>>>something that was brought back to factory specs......looks like i ve been
>>>misled all these years........ what exactly is remanufactured??
>>>
>>>Fwed
>>
>>
>> For an alternator, at least bearings, brushes, diodes, at the very
>> least. New slip rings. But you don't _know_. Unless you want to
>> take it apart, and if you have to disassemble everything you buy at
>> the parts store to see if it is good to go, toss the car and take the
>> bus.
>>
>> Lg
>>
>
>I've actually been known to do that... (at least peer inside parts
>store stuff very critically, that is - not toss the car, AFAIK every car
>I've ever owned is still on the road today.)
>
>nate

Shiny side up? Or as part of the asphalt mix?
J/K

Time to download latest carchip data. Oh what fun. This is the kind
of excitement you have to look forward to when you reach my age.
Not hot girls in short shorts
No hot rides in a sport coup
No surfer babes chasing you around a beach on Hawaii

Looking at engine readouts ;-(

I would have slit my wrists by now, but I'm too chicken to die.

Lg

ed wrote:
> Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 17:35:01 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Sun, 2 Jan 2005, john wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I swapped them in the alternator and wiring harness, and viola, the
>>>> voltmeter in the dash now reads about 16 volts right at startup. It
>>>> looks like that was the fix.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yep, looks like it. Good work. Keep an eye on it and when you get the
>>> chance, use a known-good voltmeter to measure the actual voltage across
>>> the battery with the engine idling. 16v is too high and will make
>>> problems
>>> (boil the battery, blow light bulbs).
>>
>>
>>
>> Danny, you and I seem to be singing from the same sheet of music. I
>> just sent the same message.
>>
>> Lg
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Thanks again, everyone, you were a great help, especially you Daniel
>>>> Stern, for talking me through the codes and stuff.
>>>
>>>
>>> No problem.
>>>
>>> DS
>>> (Comboverfish: THPTHPTHPTHPTHPTHT!)
>>
>>
>>
> Not only boil the battery but will blow a ton of fuses on anything that
> gets powered on, radio etc. If this is an alternator with the regulator
> built in, then its bad. You should put a good voltmeter across the
> battery with the car running to be sure.

It is unlikely that a voltage 10-15% too high will blow many fuses.
Most circuits are designed such that the normal load provides a decent
cushion below the capacity of the fuse. The only fuses that would blow
would be those that are already loaded to 90% of their capacity and this
typically isn't the case. Most fuses have a tolerance of +/- 5% so
you'd risk the occasional blown fuse even with normal voltage if you
designed a circuit where the normal load drew very close to the capacity
of the fuse.


Matt

Lawrence Glickman wrote:

> On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 19:47:46 -0500, Nate Nagel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 18:53:24 -0500, "fweddybear" >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Agreed, and I have plenty of used parts on my vehicke as well, but for
>>>>>certain parts, I would definitely go with new....for instance.... I
>>>>
>>>>wouldn't
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>put a used battery on mine, distributor cap, or wires, or spark plugs...
>>>>
>>>>>Wrecking yards are terrific places to pick up excellent used batteries at
>>>>>bargain prices. All you have to do is read the label and find something
>>>>>fresh.
>>>>
>>>>>starter
>>>>
>>>>>Depending on the specific type in question, used starters are fine.
>>>>
>>>>>As for an alternator, I would just put on a new one and be done even
>>>>>though it cost a little more.
>>>>
>>>>>The problem is that you don't really mean "new" here, you mean
>>>>>"remanufactured", as from a parts store. A *new* alternator would cost a
>>>>>great deal more, and the remanufactured items from the parts store give
>>>>>dismal reliability. So my philosophy is: Carefully-selected used, yes.
>>>>>Carefully-rebuilt, yes. New, yes. Remanufactured, no.
>>>>
>>>>>DS
>>>>
>>>> I guess we are on the same page as far as everything is concerned, with
>>>>the exception of remanufactured..... I always thought remanufactured was
>>>>something that was brought back to factory specs......looks like i ve been
>>>>misled all these years........ what exactly is remanufactured??
>>>>
>>>>Fwed
>>>
>>>
>>>For an alternator, at least bearings, brushes, diodes, at the very
>>>least. New slip rings. But you don't _know_. Unless you want to
>>>take it apart, and if you have to disassemble everything you buy at
>>>the parts store to see if it is good to go, toss the car and take the
>>>bus.
>>>
>>>Lg
>>>
>>
>>I've actually been known to do that... (at least peer inside parts
>>store stuff very critically, that is - not toss the car, AFAIK every car
>>I've ever owned is still on the road today.)
>>
>>nate
>
>
> Shiny side up? Or as part of the asphalt mix?
> J/K
>
> Time to download latest carchip data. Oh what fun. This is the kind
> of excitement you have to look forward to when you reach my age.
> Not hot girls in short shorts
> No hot rides in a sport coup
> No surfer babes chasing you around a beach on Hawaii
>
> Looking at engine readouts ;-(
>
> I would have slit my wrists by now, but I'm too chicken to die.
>
> Lg
>

I can think of one that probably *should* be razor blades by now (a '67
Dart, 4-door, six/auto, with 250K miles and change, a dead transmission,
and an undented passenger side front door) which I sold to a girl for
$50 and last I heard she'd restored it. I **** you not.

Really, the only things that car had going for it was it was rust free
and all the accessories worked. Everything else was an unholy nightmare
- it had a good "super six" carb setup, but the engine it was attached
to, which was supposedly a fairly recent reman, apparently had
mega-craploads of crank endplay, which caused the car to eat its
flexplate and thus the tranny after only a couple thousand miles. When
I say that the passenger side front door was undented, I mean that the
rest of the car looked like its previous owner was very, very ****ed at
the world, and the interior looked like it had moonlighted as a kennel
for rabid wolves. (a king size sheet and some safety pins makes a handy
seatcover, however, when you're a broke college student.)

This, of course, is after I completely went through the brakes, put a
new battery and tray in it, replaced the idler arm, and fixed all the
hacked-up wiring that the previous owner had done to it. I'm not sure
what lesson I was supposed to learn from the experience, but I probably
had a good $900 or more in that car by the time I gave up on it. Such
is life.

The crazy thing is, it was a sweet little driver in that short time
period between when I got everything fixed and when it fell apart on me.
I kind of wish I'd shown more perseverance with it, as it was the
perfect car for an urban assault vehicle (aside from that little not
moving under its own power issue) - excellent condition everywhere that
it mattered, but it looked like a refugee from a demolition derby.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel