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Tyre Advice Anyone?



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 4th 05, 08:46 PM
Zathras
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On Wed, 4 May 2005 20:37:23 +0200, "News" > wrote:

>
>"alfistagj" > wrote in message
. ..
>>
>> "News" > schreef in bericht
>> ...
>> >
>> >>
>> > Change the positon of the front and rear tyres in the manner that the
>> > frint
>> > tyres put diagonal to the rear and vice versa.
>> >

>>
>> NEVER diagonally change tyres; that's an old and old fashioned idea.
>> Keep them on the same side as most tyres are directionally bound nowadays.
>> If you put a tyre on the "wrong" side, it will be turning backwards when

>you
>> are driving ahead and i.e. the rain water will not be drained

>sufficiently.
>> And, although it sounds crazy for a front wheel drive car, on ANY car keep
>> the best tyres on the rear!!
>> So in your case, change the rear to front and put the new tyres on the

>rear.
>> Several threads in this NG have explained this in the pat, I won't repeat
>> that here.

>
>You dont change the tyre with the rim, only the tyre!!!!
>Then you dont flip it!!!!!!!!!!!


???? If you change a wheel diagonally (change car sides) you turn the
tyre and wheel around. Go and think about it! For a directional tyre,
it's illegal to have them on the wrong side of a car in the UK IIRC.
Usually they have 'outside' marked on one side.

>It is not old fashioned, and it is stupid to have best tyres on the rear,
>because you have to have better grip on front tyres!!


Sorry..it IS old fashioned and you are wrong. Newer, more advanced
thought, considers it very bad to loose grip at the rear first. You
put your best tyres on the rear so the front looses grip first
(hopefully). This you can see and react to in a way you can't if the
rear goes first. The reasoning applies for all road vehicles. It's all
been explained here, and in other places, several times so, if you
need further clarification, do a google search.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)
Ads
  #12  
Old May 4th 05, 11:05 PM
alfistagj
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Posts: n/a
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"News" > schreef in bericht
...
>
> It is not old fashioned, and it is stupid to have best tyres on the rear,
> because you have to have better grip on front tyres!!
>


News,
Like I wrote, take some time reading earlier posts in this NG about where
the best tyres should be befor you start shouting about things you obviously
have no knowledge and experience on .......
--
Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Rosso Radicofani GT 2.0JTS (2005)
Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)


  #13  
Old May 4th 05, 11:10 PM
Tony Rickard
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Zathras" wrote:

> Sorry..it IS old fashioned and you are wrong. Newer, more advanced
> thought, considers it very bad to loose grip at the rear first. You
> put your best tyres on the rear so the front looses grip first
> (hopefully). This you can see and react to in a way you can't if the
> rear goes first. The reasoning applies for all road vehicles. It's all
> been explained here, and in other places, several times so, if you
> need further clarification, do a google search.


I accept that losing the rear can be harder to control, however, the
majority of "offs" IMHO are through simply understeering off. Having said
all that there are many other factors such as weight distribution (having a
20 odd stone of people in the back, a boot full of compost etc.) that
probably have a greater influence. Add to that the nut behind the wheel
doing daft things like abruptly braking mid bend or failing to read road
conditions (the sign said 40mph therefore I must be able to go round this
bend in a monsoon at 40mph) and I am unconvinced a small difference between
front and back tyres really make the difference between spinning off and
staying in control.

However, a soft front and a hard rear maybe sufficient to change the
balance.


  #14  
Old May 5th 05, 07:41 AM
News
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"koert54" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "News" > wrote in message

...
> >
> > "alfistagj" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> > >
> > > "News" > schreef in bericht
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > > Change the positon of the front and rear tyres in the manner that

the
> > > > frint
> > > > tyres put diagonal to the rear and vice versa.
> > > >
> > >
> > > NEVER diagonally change tyres; that's an old and old fashioned idea.
> > > Keep them on the same side as most tyres are directionally bound

> nowadays.
> > > If you put a tyre on the "wrong" side, it will be turning backwards

when
> > you
> > > are driving ahead and i.e. the rain water will not be drained

> > sufficiently.
> > > And, although it sounds crazy for a front wheel drive car, on ANY car

> keep
> > > the best tyres on the rear!!
> > > So in your case, change the rear to front and put the new tyres on the

> > rear.
> > > Several threads in this NG have explained this in the pat, I won't

> repeat
> > > that here.

> >
> > You dont change the tyre with the rim, only the tyre!!!!
> > Then you dont flip it!!!!!!!!!!!
> > It is not old fashioned, and it is stupid to have best tyres on the

rear,
> > because you have to have better grip on front tyres!!
> >
> >

>
> it's not stupid to have the best tires on the rear - even for front wheel
> drive.
> With best tires in front, in case of an emergency break, your car starts
> spinning.
> Always put the best tires in rear - they teach you that in advanced driver
> classes (slip course etc)
>


Yeah, great on wet surfaces.... )


  #15  
Old May 5th 05, 08:40 AM
Zathras
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 04 May 2005 22:10:43 GMT, "Tony Rickard"
> wrote:

>
>"Zathras" wrote:
>
>> Sorry..it IS old fashioned and you are wrong. Newer, more advanced
>> thought, considers it very bad to loose grip at the rear first. You
>> put your best tyres on the rear so the front looses grip first
>> (hopefully). This you can see and react to in a way you can't if the
>> rear goes first. The reasoning applies for all road vehicles. It's all
>> been explained here, and in other places, several times so, if you
>> need further clarification, do a google search.

>
>I accept that losing the rear can be harder to control, however, the
>majority of "offs" IMHO are through simply understeering off.


That's not the point though. If you're going so fast that the car will
understeer off the road, having the good tyres anywhere probably will
not help much.

>Having said
>all that there are many other factors such as weight distribution (having a
>20 odd stone of people in the back, a boot full of compost etc.) that
>probably have a greater influence.


Having the mother-in-law in the back seat should not affect where you
put your tyres - maybe their pressures though!

>Add to that the nut behind the wheel
>doing daft things like abruptly braking mid bend or failing to read road
>conditions (the sign said 40mph therefore I must be able to go round this
>bend in a monsoon at 40mph) and I am unconvinced a small difference between
>front and back tyres really make the difference between spinning off and
>staying in control.


Having driven non-Alfas in the past, I can assure you that I've
experienced a huge difference. The 156 isn't too bothered, being
better balanced than some, but it's max cornering speed is also poor
compared to many cars these days.

>However, a soft front and a hard rear maybe sufficient to change the
>balance.


I'd be surprised if the small hardness and softness difference of
modern road tyres had that much of an effect compared to wear
differences.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)
  #16  
Old May 5th 05, 09:10 AM
Tony Rickard
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Zathras" wrote:

> Having the mother-in-law in the back seat should not affect where you
> put your tyres - maybe their pressures though!


Considering the efforts manufacturers go to optimise weight distribution I
would suggest it does make a significant difference to the way a car
handles.

Unladen Transit vans can be quite tail happy!

> I'd be surprised if the small hardness and softness difference of
> modern road tyres had that much of an effect compared to wear
> differences.


I would say the reverse. The front end grip of my 156 with Bridgestones S03s
is incredibly different then the Contis it replaced (when new). Stick some
Dunlops on the front and it would understeer more. Stick some cheapo no name
tyres on the front and Goodyear F1s on the back and now check out the
balance...

Compared with worn tyres of the same type on one axle and new ones on the
other I believe the difference is less pronounced.

Cheers
Tony



  #17  
Old May 5th 05, 09:20 AM
Canonian
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No, seriously, no out-of-line problems.
But what was the case: only the side sections (inner en outer) were flat
(<2mm), the mid section had approx. 4mm. So my guess was that I drove to
hard through corners? The tyres weren't adjusted in-line afterwards, and the
next set of tyres didn't have these problems.

--
Berry

http://bere-design.tk
"alfistagj" > schreef in bericht
.. .
>
> "Canonian" > schreef in bericht
> ...
> >A few years ago, I studied some brands/types since my previous Michelin
> > tyres had no minimum tread after just 7.000 miles!

>
> Don't try to let me believe that had anything to do with the tyres.
> MUST have been a hughe out-of-line problem
> --
> Ciao from Holland
> AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
> Rosso Radicofani GT 2.0JTS (2005)
> Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)
>
>



  #18  
Old May 5th 05, 11:42 AM
alfistagj
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Canonian" > schreef in bericht
...
> No, seriously, no out-of-line problems.
> But what was the case: only the side sections (inner en outer) were flat
> (<2mm), the mid section had approx. 4mm. So my guess was that I drove to
> hard through corners? The tyres weren't adjusted in-line afterwards, and
> the
> next set of tyres didn't have these problems.


100% sure that that is a tyre pressure problem.
This indicates a much too low pressure!!!
Car should have been heavy steering as well.
Cornering too fast or out-of-line will show wear on the outside.
--
Ciao from Holland
AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
Rosso Radicofani GT 2.0JTS (2005)
Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)


  #19  
Old May 5th 05, 08:05 PM
Canonian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

okay, it sounds reasonable to me. Never mind, this was 3 years ago...

--
Berry

http://bere-design.tk
"alfistagj" > schreef in bericht
.. .
>
> "Canonian" > schreef in bericht
> ...
> > No, seriously, no out-of-line problems.
> > But what was the case: only the side sections (inner en outer) were flat
> > (<2mm), the mid section had approx. 4mm. So my guess was that I drove to
> > hard through corners? The tyres weren't adjusted in-line afterwards, and
> > the
> > next set of tyres didn't have these problems.

>
> 100% sure that that is a tyre pressure problem.
> This indicates a much too low pressure!!!
> Car should have been heavy steering as well.
> Cornering too fast or out-of-line will show wear on the outside.
> --
> Ciao from Holland
> AlfistaGJ (Gert-Jan)
> Rosso Radicofani GT 2.0JTS (2005)
> Golden Montreal 1428700 (1973/4)
>
>



  #20  
Old May 5th 05, 09:13 PM
Zathras
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 05 May 2005 08:10:55 GMT, "Tony Rickard"
> wrote:

>
>"Zathras" wrote:
>
>> Having the mother-in-law in the back seat should not affect where you
>> put your tyres - maybe their pressures though!

>
>Considering the efforts manufacturers go to optimise weight distribution I
>would suggest it does make a significant difference to the way a car
>handles.
>
>Unladen Transit vans can be quite tail happy!


Well..it's fine by me if you want to swap your tyres round every time
you load or unload your Transit!

>> I'd be surprised if the small hardness and softness difference of
>> modern road tyres had that much of an effect compared to wear
>> differences.

>
>I would say the reverse. The front end grip of my 156 with Bridgestones S03s
>is incredibly different then the Contis it replaced (when new). Stick some
>Dunlops on the front and it would understeer more. Stick some cheapo no name
>tyres on the front and Goodyear F1s on the back and now check out the
>balance...


But you've now expanded the argument into comparing completely
different tyres from different manufacturers. I was talking about
softness vs hardness.

<snip>

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)
 




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