Dundrod - An Appreciation

Greg Campbell > wrote in message
news:KpTdd.35731$bk1.25388@fed1read05...
> JP wrote:
>
> > Then I guess you won't see this either......sniff, sniff. How can I
go on
> > ?
>
> Don't 'go on', just go away.
>
> >
> > Anyway Chad, after his making an ass of himself after the Pits track
> > release, and as usual, never admitting he was wrong, any time he posts
more
> > of his " hey everyone look at me " crusade/diatribes, oh well.
>
> Dude, you might try being decent to others for a change. As of now, you
> really are a sad little puppy.
>
> -Greg

No, I'm decent to those that deserve it. Guess where you fit in ?


p.s. a sure sign of a loser; one older than 13, who still uses the word
dude.

"JP" > wrote in message
...

> Lol, I "gave it a rest" posts ago Malc. Note the authors of the
others.
> And if you don't like what I post, don't read it. It is public ng,
remember
> ? Go to moderated one if you only like those with similiar opinions.

Once again you demonstrate a less than complete understanding of the
post to which you reply JP, I am trying to give you some much needed
advice.

I'm quite happy to have people disagree with me, and it's not that often
that they do on subjective issues, but what I am suggesting you do is to
give your opinion (as you so frequently do already) but also to give
some explanation as to why you believe your opinion is the right one.
You may still be wrong, only time will tell, but people will have more
respect for your opinion if you can back it up.

By & large RAS is one of the most friendly newsgroups I've seen, and I'd
like to help it stay that way. You will get a better response if you
think about your posts a bit more before clicking 'submit'. Maybe it
would help if you compare a newsgroup to a school playground. Act like a
fool & people will ignore you or call you a fool, be helpful & friendly
and people will be friendly & helpful back to you. It's really not all
that hard if you think about it ;-)

Malc.

Malc > wrote in message
...
> "JP" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Lol, I "gave it a rest" posts ago Malc. Note the authors of the
> others.
> > And if you don't like what I post, don't read it. It is public ng,
> remember
> > ? Go to moderated one if you only like those with similiar opinions.
>
> Once again you demonstrate a less than complete understanding of the
> post to which you reply JP, I am trying to give you some much needed
> advice.
>
> I'm quite happy to have people disagree with me, and it's not that often
> that they do on subjective issues, but what I am suggesting you do is to
> give your opinion (as you so frequently do already) but also to give
> some explanation as to why you believe your opinion is the right one.
> You may still be wrong, only time will tell, but people will have more
> respect for your opinion if you can back it up.
>
> By & large RAS is one of the most friendly newsgroups I've seen, and I'd
> like to help it stay that way. You will get a better response if you
> think about your posts a bit more before clicking 'submit'. Maybe it
> would help if you compare a newsgroup to a school playground. Act like a
> fool & people will ignore you or call you a fool, be helpful & friendly
> and people will be friendly & helpful back to you. It's really not all
> that hard if you think about it ;-)
>
> Malc.

Thanks for the tips, but fwiw, I've been around ng's, etc., for years now.
In terms of whether my opinion is right and whether others think so, I
really couldn't care less if they do or not. It's just an opinion, on a ng;
just like anyone elses.
I have no interest in trying to "convert" or prove that my opinion is
right, to someone, on x subject. If they agree fine, if not, who cares.

"JP" > wrote in message
...

> Thanks for the tips, but fwiw, I've been around ng's, etc., for
years now.
> In terms of whether my opinion is right and whether others think so, I
> really couldn't care less if they do or not. It's just an opinion, on
a ng;
> just like anyone elses.
> I have no interest in trying to "convert" or prove that my opinion
is
> right, to someone, on x subject. If they agree fine, if not, who
cares.

Okay bye.

Malc.

Nice write up.

Thanks Steve.

"Steve Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Dundrod - An Appreciation
>
> Wrong and wrong again! All the great GPL vintage tracks have NOT been
> released, as I so precipitously proclaimed in my 9/10 Appreciation of
> Sergio
> Loro's Mellaha (Tripoli) and was subsequently forced to amend in my
> Appreciation of John Basara's Monza 10K on 9/27.
>
> Jim Pearson, he of the superb recreation of the fabled 198-turn, 15.4-mile
> Isle of Man circuit (7/12/03), has proved me wrong again with--what
> else?--an equally superb recreation of the only-slightly-less-stupendous
> Dundrod circuit, altho, strictly speaking, this long (7.4-mile) and
> winding
> (36-turn) gambol thru Northern Ireland is not contemporaneous with the GPL
> era, having last been used for the 1955 running of the famous "TT"
> (Tourist
> Trophy), which was won that year by a trio of Mercedes-Benz 300SLRs
> trouncing a field of Jaguar D-Types and Aston Martin DB3Ss.
>
> In point of fact, no single-seaters (except bikes) ever ran at Dundrod,
> and
> given the "country lane" nature of the layout, a field of 3-liter '67 F1
> cars would likely all have ended up in the trees, fences, hedges and
> ditches.
>
> It is *very* narrow. As in real life, passing online or AI cars will be
> very difficult, but it is nonetheless (at least for the hot-lapper) a
> beautiful romp thru the countryside, which includes homey names like
> Flowbog, Rushyhill, and Tornagrough, and authentic-looking signage with
> warnings like "Slow! Wet Tar!" and "Delays Possible Until Sept. 9" (the
> '53
> TT, simulated here, was staged on Sept. 5).
>
> Anyone who's driven Mobil 1 Rally Championship will find the scenery
> familar
> (and a stone delight with eDimensional 3D glasses), as will anyone who's
> seen footage of the historic TT in "A Gentleman's Motorracing Diary" or
> the
> Shell Oil racing films of the day. Pearson's graphics are spot on...and
> beautimous.
>
> Three drivers were killed in the '55 race, and the venue was abandoned for
> 4-wheelers as too dangerous (altho bikes continue to race there to this
> day). Now, thanks to Jim Pearson, it lives again. His installation
> includes a rip-snortin' 3:28.53 lap in a Brabham, and while I'm sure some
> Alien can beat that, I can't...and neither could Stirling Moss, who put
> his
> 300SLR on the pole with a lugubrious 4:48 (that's FOUR-forty-eight) for
> its
> last race.
>
> Get Dundrod he
>
> http://www.jrpearson.homestead.com/Dundrod.html
>
> --Steve Smith
>
>

"JP" > wrote in message
...
> <laughter>
>
> Can you even see from that horse ?
>
> I just hope someday I can be as worthy as yourself oh majestic one.

You ain't got a chance.

Mark Davisons > wrote in message
...
>
> "JP" > wrote in message
> ...
> > <laughter>
> >
> > Can you even see from that horse ?
> >
> > I just hope someday I can be as worthy as yourself oh majestic one.
>
> You ain't got a chance.


You're right; I'd have to take steps backwards.

> > You ain't got a chance.
>
>
> You're right; I'd have to take steps backwards.

And you've got balance issues that prevent that, right?

Mark Davisons > wrote in message
...
>
> > > You ain't got a chance.
> >
> >
> > You're right; I'd have to take steps backwards.
>
> And you've got balance issues that prevent that, right?


Not at all. You ? Silly question; the answer is obvious.

In my commentary on Jim Pearson's wonderful recreation of the historic
Dundrod circuit, I noted the startling discrepancy between Jim's lap time in
the included replay (3:28) and Stirling Moss' best lap lap in the
Mercedes-Benz 300SLR (4:48) in the '55 Tourist Trophy. (According to
Guinness, Mike Hawthorn holds the absolute sports-car record at 4:42 in a
D-Type Jag.) By highlighting the difference, I didn't mean to impugn the
accuracy of Jim's version of this circuit - it reeks of veracity. No one
ever got that resonant a "look and feel" without doing his homework.

Rather, I believe the difference can be explained by three factors.

1. The changes to the track between the real-world layout that Moss drove in
'55 and Jim's version, which simulates the layout used from '65 to the
present for motorbike races.

2. The differences between the 300SLR and almost any 1967 Formula 1 machine,
but particularly the Brabham BT24. According to this site:



the 300SLR weighed 1984 lbs. and was powered by a 310-hp straight eight, or
6.4 lbs/hp. The '67 BT24, according to Papy, weighed 1105 lbs. and was
powered by a 350-hp V8, or 3.16 lbs/hp, i.e., about twice the scat of the
Merc.

Moreover, the 300SLR had drum brakes (albeit really huge ones, and unsprung,
too, as I remember) vs. the Brab's 4-wheel discs, and most importantly, the
older car was on incredibly narrow rims (prob. 5-in.) vs. the F1 car's much
wider rims (prob. twice as wide). Racing tire technology had made leaps &
bounds in the intervening dozen years as well.

3. Driving technique. If you watch movies of 1950s sports car enduros, you
see that the drivers of the day did not fling their cars around with nearly
as much abandon as did "Black Jack" Brabham (an old dirt-track meister) did
in the 60s, much less with as much verve as Jim does in his replay. While
some of the early drivers may have taken hairy chances at short, wide tracks
like Silverstone and Sebring, they were much more cautious at long, narrow
venues like the Ring, the Targa Florio, and Dundrod. I mean, my God, they
had to complete 84 laps (623 miles, over 1000 k's) of the blantantly lethal
Ulster circuit.

Anyway, all of which is by way of saying that I believe Jim Pearson's
Dundrod is as accurate as a brass ruler.

--Steve Smith