96 Town & Country tranny fluid issues

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Richard wrote:

> Chrysler put out a notice that the use of +4 in a pre 2000 4 speed mini-van
> transmission will cause the transmission clutch to chatter (bad) if it has
> to go through a computer re-learn cycle.

Chrysler has put out a lot of "notices" (TSBs) regarding transmission
fluid selection. What is the date on the TSB you looked at?

Also, please give more info. What happened *after* the computer re-learn
cycle? Was the on-road learn protocol used, or the "quick learn"
procedure?

DS

actually from what i just read you are incorrect there was a tsb issued reviewing
the issue and vehicles for the most part going bac to 89 can use atf4 with no
issues but if the t.q converter has been replaced and the etax. then the drb must
be used to
shut off quik learn .dated 2004 and the new formulated atf4 and if i remember
correctly the color will be going by by and it will come clear in the futurethe
issue was indeed shutter that would disappear after 7 or 8 hours of drive time

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Richard wrote:
>
> > Chrysler put out a notice that the use of +4 in a pre 2000 4 speed mini-van
> > transmission will cause the transmission clutch to chatter (bad) if it has
> > to go through a computer re-learn cycle.
>
> Chrysler has put out a lot of "notices" (TSBs) regarding transmission
> fluid selection. What is the date on the TSB you looked at?
>
> Also, please give more info. What happened *after* the computer re-learn
> cycle? Was the on-road learn protocol used, or the "quick learn"
> procedure?
>
> DS

actually from what i just read you are incorrect there was a tsb issued reviewing
the issue and vehicles for the most part going bac to 89 can use atf4 with no
issues but if the t.q converter has been replaced and the etax. then the drb must
be used to
shut off quik learn .dated 2004 and the new formulated atf4 and if i remember
correctly the color will be going by by and it will come clear in the futurethe
issue was indeed shutter that would disappear after 7 or 8 hours of drive time

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Richard wrote:
>
> > Chrysler put out a notice that the use of +4 in a pre 2000 4 speed mini-van
> > transmission will cause the transmission clutch to chatter (bad) if it has
> > to go through a computer re-learn cycle.
>
> Chrysler has put out a lot of "notices" (TSBs) regarding transmission
> fluid selection. What is the date on the TSB you looked at?
>
> Also, please give more info. What happened *after* the computer re-learn
> cycle? Was the on-road learn protocol used, or the "quick learn"
> procedure?
>
> DS

My 1999 MiniVan has 61K miles and has had the trans flushed twice (30K and
60K miles). Once at the dealer and once by myself. Both times with ATF+4
and there have been no problems experienced. Dealer service told me that
there was indeed a slight chance for this clutch chatter to occur, but if it
did to just disconnect the battery to allow the transmission to re-learn the
new fluid.

Could you please cite the actual TSB source for your email.

Bob

"Richard" > wrote in message
...
> Chrysler put out a notice that the use of +4 in a pre 2000 4 speed
mini-van
> transmission will cause the transmission clutch to chatter (bad) if it has
> to go through a computer re-learn cycle. It happened to me. People who
post
> otherwise should keep their traps shut.
>
> Richard.
>
>

My 1999 MiniVan has 61K miles and has had the trans flushed twice (30K and
60K miles). Once at the dealer and once by myself. Both times with ATF+4
and there have been no problems experienced. Dealer service told me that
there was indeed a slight chance for this clutch chatter to occur, but if it
did to just disconnect the battery to allow the transmission to re-learn the
new fluid.

Could you please cite the actual TSB source for your email.

Bob

"Richard" > wrote in message
...
> Chrysler put out a notice that the use of +4 in a pre 2000 4 speed
mini-van
> transmission will cause the transmission clutch to chatter (bad) if it has
> to go through a computer re-learn cycle. It happened to me. People who
post
> otherwise should keep their traps shut.
>
> Richard.
>
>

"Bob Shuman" > wrote in message
...
> My 1999 MiniVan has 61K miles and has had the trans flushed twice (30K and
> 60K miles). Once at the dealer and once by myself. Both times with ATF+4
> and there have been no problems experienced. Dealer service told me that
> there was indeed a slight chance for this clutch chatter to occur, but if
> it
> did to just disconnect the battery to allow the transmission to re-learn
> the
> new fluid.
>
> Could you please cite the actual TSB source for your email.
>
> Bob

I don't have that Chrysler notice at hand; but it had been posted here about
2 years ago. It is not that the clutch has to relearn the +4, it is that if
it has to go through a relearn process and it has been switched to +4, the
clutch will chatter and perhaps damage itself. My dealer put in +4 in my 96
and I called Chrysler to confirm their advise, they called the dealer and
the dealer (at its own expense) flushed out the +4 (plus additive they put
in), and replaced it with +3, and my shifting issues went away.

Richard.

"Bob Shuman" > wrote in message
...
> My 1999 MiniVan has 61K miles and has had the trans flushed twice (30K and
> 60K miles). Once at the dealer and once by myself. Both times with ATF+4
> and there have been no problems experienced. Dealer service told me that
> there was indeed a slight chance for this clutch chatter to occur, but if
> it
> did to just disconnect the battery to allow the transmission to re-learn
> the
> new fluid.
>
> Could you please cite the actual TSB source for your email.
>
> Bob

I don't have that Chrysler notice at hand; but it had been posted here about
2 years ago. It is not that the clutch has to relearn the +4, it is that if
it has to go through a relearn process and it has been switched to +4, the
clutch will chatter and perhaps damage itself. My dealer put in +4 in my 96
and I called Chrysler to confirm their advise, they called the dealer and
the dealer (at its own expense) flushed out the +4 (plus additive they put
in), and replaced it with +3, and my shifting issues went away.

Richard.

Richard wrote:

> "Bob Shuman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>My 1999 MiniVan has 61K miles and has had the trans flushed twice (30K and
>>60K miles). Once at the dealer and once by myself. Both times with ATF+4
>>and there have been no problems experienced. Dealer service told me that
>>there was indeed a slight chance for this clutch chatter to occur, but if
>>it
>>did to just disconnect the battery to allow the transmission to re-learn
>>the
>>new fluid.
>>
>>Could you please cite the actual TSB source for your email.
>>
>> Bob
>
>
> I don't have that Chrysler notice at hand; but it had been posted here about
> 2 years ago. It is not that the clutch has to relearn the +4, it is that if
> it has to go through a relearn process and it has been switched to +4, the
> clutch will chatter and perhaps damage itself. My dealer put in +4 in my 96
> and I called Chrysler to confirm their advise, they called the dealer and
> the dealer (at its own expense) flushed out the +4 (plus additive they put
> in), and replaced it with +3, and my shifting issues went away.
>
> Richard.

The latest TSB on the subject is No. 21-004-04 issued March 2004. It
says, in part: "This bulletin applies to all transmissions manufactured
by Chrysler except for 1999 and earlier minivans with the 41TE/AE
transmission. This Service Bulletin DOES NOT apply to all AWD
transmissions, Sprinter transmissions, Crossfire transmissions and WG
bodies equipped with a W5J400 or NAGI transmission (sales code DGJ)...".

That TSB supercedes No. 21-006-01. That TSB (21-006-01) no longer shows
up on AllData since it is superceded, but what it, in part, said was: "A
new transmission fluid (ATF+4(R) - Type 9602) has been developed and is
being used as factory fill for all vehicles with Chrysler automatic
transmissions. Until now, vehicles originally filled with ATF+2 or ATF+3
were to be serviced with ATF+3. Effective immediately, it is recommended
that all vehicles with Chrysler automatic transmissions except for 1999
and earlier minivans be serviced with ATF+4(R). ATF+3 should continue to
be used for 1999 and earlier minivans because of the potential for
torque converter shudder during break in. For all other applications the
ATF+4(R) fluid offers significant benefits as outlined below...".

If you check the archives of this ng, you will see that some
knowledgeable person/people stated that that TC shudder concern was due
to torque converter clutch wear-in, and that I speculated at least twice
that, if that was true, once the tranny (and clutch) had some wear on
it, apparently it would be OK to switch to ATF+4. No-one ever
challenged or acknowledged that theroy (so it was left ambiguous as to
whether ATF+4 would cause an actual problem with 99+% of the minivans on
the road whose TC clutches were certainly well broken-in by now even
though the TSB said not to use it).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')


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Richard wrote:

> "Bob Shuman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>My 1999 MiniVan has 61K miles and has had the trans flushed twice (30K and
>>60K miles). Once at the dealer and once by myself. Both times with ATF+4
>>and there have been no problems experienced. Dealer service told me that
>>there was indeed a slight chance for this clutch chatter to occur, but if
>>it
>>did to just disconnect the battery to allow the transmission to re-learn
>>the
>>new fluid.
>>
>>Could you please cite the actual TSB source for your email.
>>
>> Bob
>
>
> I don't have that Chrysler notice at hand; but it had been posted here about
> 2 years ago. It is not that the clutch has to relearn the +4, it is that if
> it has to go through a relearn process and it has been switched to +4, the
> clutch will chatter and perhaps damage itself. My dealer put in +4 in my 96
> and I called Chrysler to confirm their advise, they called the dealer and
> the dealer (at its own expense) flushed out the +4 (plus additive they put
> in), and replaced it with +3, and my shifting issues went away.
>
> Richard.

The latest TSB on the subject is No. 21-004-04 issued March 2004. It
says, in part: "This bulletin applies to all transmissions manufactured
by Chrysler except for 1999 and earlier minivans with the 41TE/AE
transmission. This Service Bulletin DOES NOT apply to all AWD
transmissions, Sprinter transmissions, Crossfire transmissions and WG
bodies equipped with a W5J400 or NAGI transmission (sales code DGJ)...".

That TSB supercedes No. 21-006-01. That TSB (21-006-01) no longer shows
up on AllData since it is superceded, but what it, in part, said was: "A
new transmission fluid (ATF+4(R) - Type 9602) has been developed and is
being used as factory fill for all vehicles with Chrysler automatic
transmissions. Until now, vehicles originally filled with ATF+2 or ATF+3
were to be serviced with ATF+3. Effective immediately, it is recommended
that all vehicles with Chrysler automatic transmissions except for 1999
and earlier minivans be serviced with ATF+4(R). ATF+3 should continue to
be used for 1999 and earlier minivans because of the potential for
torque converter shudder during break in. For all other applications the
ATF+4(R) fluid offers significant benefits as outlined below...".

If you check the archives of this ng, you will see that some
knowledgeable person/people stated that that TC shudder concern was due
to torque converter clutch wear-in, and that I speculated at least twice
that, if that was true, once the tranny (and clutch) had some wear on
it, apparently it would be OK to switch to ATF+4. No-one ever
challenged or acknowledged that theroy (so it was left ambiguous as to
whether ATF+4 would cause an actual problem with 99+% of the minivans on
the road whose TC clutches were certainly well broken-in by now even
though the TSB said not to use it).

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
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The latest TSB on the subject is No. 21-004-04 issued March 2004. It
> says, in part: "This bulletin applies to all transmissions manufactured by
> Chrysler except for 1999 and earlier minivans with the 41TE/AE
> transmission. This Service Bulletin DOES NOT apply to all AWD
> transmissions, Sprinter transmissions, Crossfire transmissions and WG
> bodies equipped with a W5J400 or NAGI transmission (sales code DGJ)...".
>
> That TSB supercedes No. 21-006-01. That TSB (21-006-01) no longer shows
> up on AllData since it is superceded, but what it, in part, said was: "A
> new transmission fluid (ATF+4(R) - Type 9602) has been developed and is
> being used as factory fill for all vehicles with Chrysler automatic
> transmissions. Until now, vehicles originally filled with ATF+2 or ATF+3
> were to be serviced with ATF+3. Effective immediately, it is recommended
> that all vehicles with Chrysler automatic transmissions except for 1999
> and earlier minivans be serviced with ATF+4(R). ATF+3 should continue to
> be used for 1999 and earlier minivans because of the potential for torque
> converter shudder during break in. For all other applications the ATF+4(R)
> fluid offers significant benefits as outlined below...".
>
> If you check the archives of this ng, you will see that some knowledgeable
> person/people stated that that TC shudder concern was due to torque
> converter clutch wear-in, and that I speculated at least twice that, if
> that was true, once the tranny (and clutch) had some wear on it,
> apparently it would be OK to switch to ATF+4. No-one ever challenged or
> acknowledged that theroy (so it was left ambiguous as to whether ATF+4
> would cause an actual problem with 99+% of the minivans on the road whose
> TC clutches were certainly well broken-in by now even though the TSB said
> not to use it).
>
> Bill Putney

Yes, the TSB's are confusing. That is why I called Chrysler for technical
assistance. They called me back and recommended getting rid of the +4 plus
additive and recommended +3. It sure would be nice if Chrysler had a clearer
way of communicating the care and feeding of its products. Do you kind of
get the feeling that Chrysler is not quite sure about this issue; I sure do.

Still, my shifting did get smoother when I used +3. It did not prevent my
case from cracking from that loose pin Chrysler knew about but did not let
us know it had a cure for. No customer quality inspection program here.

Richard.