M3 and oil

I have 4K some miles on my M3 now. The instrument cluster say's I'll need
service in about 11,000 miles. When I check the dip stick the oil looks
like coal tar. Well, not that thick but that black. I hate to think what
it will look like if I wait until it tells me to change the oil. It hasn't
used a drop of oil so far that I can tell.

I also have a '97 328is that has never used any oil.

I've heard some complain about their high oil consumption. I wonder what
the difference is? It was my understanding that you want a little oil
consumption, otherwise the upper cylinders aren't being lubricated well
enough. Maybe that's no longer true with modern engines?

John

"John E Yurkon" > wrote in message
...
>I have 4K some miles on my M3 now. The instrument cluster say's I'll need
>service in about 11,000 miles. When I check the dip stick the oil looks
>like coal tar. Well, not that thick but that black. I hate to think what
>it will look like if I wait until it tells me to change the oil. It hasn't
>used a drop of oil so far that I can tell.
>
> I also have a '97 328is that has never used any oil.
>
> I've heard some complain about their high oil consumption. I wonder what
> the difference is? It was my understanding that you want a little oil
> consumption, otherwise the upper cylinders aren't being lubricated well
> enough. Maybe that's no longer true with modern engines?
>
Do you have a current E46 M3? If so, it should have come with synthetic oil.
Synthetic oil is basically black, so you're not going to tell whether you
need to change your oil by its color.

Depending on how hard you drive, you should probably change your oil and
filter every 5-7.5K.....

"bfd" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John E Yurkon" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I have 4K some miles on my M3 now. The instrument cluster say's I'll
need
> >service in about 11,000 miles. When I check the dip stick the oil looks
> >like coal tar. Well, not that thick but that black. I hate to think
what
> >it will look like if I wait until it tells me to change the oil. It
hasn't
> >used a drop of oil so far that I can tell.
> >
> > I also have a '97 328is that has never used any oil.
> >
> > I've heard some complain about their high oil consumption. I wonder
what
> > the difference is? It was my understanding that you want a little oil
> > consumption, otherwise the upper cylinders aren't being lubricated well
> > enough. Maybe that's no longer true with modern engines?
> >
> Do you have a current E46 M3? If so, it should have come with synthetic
oil.
> Synthetic oil is basically black, so you're not going to tell whether you
> need to change your oil by its color.

Eh. The synthetic oil I use in my cars isn't black.
Certainly not when it first goes in, and even after a few thousand miles.
Mike.

On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 19:27:09 -0500, John E Yurkon wrote:

> I have 4K some miles on my M3 now. The instrument cluster say's I'll need
> service in about 11,000 miles. When I check the dip stick the oil looks
> like coal tar. Well, not that thick but that black. I hate to think what
> it will look like if I wait until it tells me to change the oil. It
> hasn't used a drop of oil so far that I can tell.
>
BMW's fully synthetic oil starts off pretty black so the visual appearance
isn't much of a clue. While I don't believe there's any doubt as to a
synthetic oils ability to retain its lubricating properties over the
extended intervals now specified, I'm not fully sold on the idea.

With synthetic oils the bigger problem is the build of contaminates in the
oil. That includes combustion condensates and normal wear particles.
Unlike the petro oils those contaminates don't cause synthetic oil to
break down nearly as fast. But the condensates are still the major
cause of the sludging that you see in some engines.

The general state of the engine (how much blow-by) and driving patterns
are the major contributors to the rate of condensate accumulation. Modern
engines are built to higher tolerances than those in the past and the
materials are better, which leads to less blow by. But a driving pattern
that has a sizable fraction of low speed operation and short trips that
don't allow the engine to fully come up to temperature and stay there for
a while will see a greater amount of condensate in the oil since it isn't
being boiled out during operation. And it takes longer than you might
think to get all of the engine fully up to temperature. In cooler weather
something like 20-30 minutes of sustained highway speed driving is
typically required for the oil to go to full hot.

Oil is relatively cheap and shortening the interval to half or less of the
recommended interval may be appropriate, depending on your driving
pattern. With about 70% of my mileage being at highway speed I'm more
comfortable with half the normal interval. If I spent more time driving in
an urban cycle I might change the oil every 5k.


> I also have a '97 328is that has never used any oil.
>
> I've heard some complain about their high oil consumption. I wonder
> what the difference is? It was my understanding that you want a little
> oil consumption, otherwise the upper cylinders aren't being lubricated
> well enough. Maybe that's no longer true with modern engines?
>
It's partly better manufacturing and partly the differences between petro
and synth oils. Synthetic oils are less soluble in gasoline and have a
higher flash point. That means that less of the oil will be washed off the
upper cylinder bore on the intake cycle and burned on the power stroke.

--
The instructions said to use Windows 98 or better, so I installed RedHat.

I guess I think about changing it around 7,000 then. Glad to hear that
color isn't
an indicator.

John
"Jim Levie" > wrote in message
news
> On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 19:27:09 -0500, John E Yurkon wrote:
>
>> I have 4K some miles on my M3 now. The instrument cluster say's I'll
>> need
>> service in about 11,000 miles. When I check the dip stick the oil looks
>> like coal tar. Well, not that thick but that black. I hate to think
>> what
>> it will look like if I wait until it tells me to change the oil. It
>> hasn't used a drop of oil so far that I can tell.
>>
> BMW's fully synthetic oil starts off pretty black so the visual appearance
> isn't much of a clue. While I don't believe there's any doubt as to a
> synthetic oils ability to retain its lubricating properties over the
> extended intervals now specified, I'm not fully sold on the idea.
>
> With synthetic oils the bigger problem is the build of contaminates in the
> oil. That includes combustion condensates and normal wear particles.
> Unlike the petro oils those contaminates don't cause synthetic oil to
> break down nearly as fast. But the condensates are still the major
> cause of the sludging that you see in some engines.
>
> The general state of the engine (how much blow-by) and driving patterns
> are the major contributors to the rate of condensate accumulation. Modern
> engines are built to higher tolerances than those in the past and the
> materials are better, which leads to less blow by. But a driving pattern
> that has a sizable fraction of low speed operation and short trips that
> don't allow the engine to fully come up to temperature and stay there for
> a while will see a greater amount of condensate in the oil since it isn't
> being boiled out during operation. And it takes longer than you might
> think to get all of the engine fully up to temperature. In cooler weather
> something like 20-30 minutes of sustained highway speed driving is
> typically required for the oil to go to full hot.
>
> Oil is relatively cheap and shortening the interval to half or less of the
> recommended interval may be appropriate, depending on your driving
> pattern. With about 70% of my mileage being at highway speed I'm more
> comfortable with half the normal interval. If I spent more time driving in
> an urban cycle I might change the oil every 5k.
>
>
>> I also have a '97 328is that has never used any oil.
>>
>> I've heard some complain about their high oil consumption. I wonder
>> what the difference is? It was my understanding that you want a little
>> oil consumption, otherwise the upper cylinders aren't being lubricated
>> well enough. Maybe that's no longer true with modern engines?
>>
> It's partly better manufacturing and partly the differences between petro
> and synth oils. Synthetic oils are less soluble in gasoline and have a
> higher flash point. That means that less of the oil will be washed off the
> upper cylinder bore on the intake cycle and burned on the power stroke.
>
> --
> The instructions said to use Windows 98 or better, so I installed RedHat.
>

Jim Levie wrote:
> >
> BMW's fully synthetic oil starts off pretty black
What utter rubbish!

"John E Yurkon" > wrote in message
...
> I have 4K some miles on my M3 now. The instrument cluster say's I'll need
> service in about 11,000 miles. When I check the dip stick the oil looks
> like coal tar. Well, not that thick but that black. I hate to think what
> it will look like if I wait until it tells me to change the oil. It
hasn't
> used a drop of oil so far that I can tell.
>
> I also have a '97 328is that has never used any oil.
>
> I've heard some complain about their high oil consumption. I wonder what
> the difference is? It was my understanding that you want a little oil
> consumption, otherwise the upper cylinders aren't being lubricated well
> enough. Maybe that's no longer true with modern engines?
>
> John
>
>

I take it you had a change at 1200 after running in? Plus your dealer should
be using TWS oil in an M3 which certainly is not black!

> Eh. The synthetic oil I use in my cars isn't black.
> Certainly not when it first goes in, and even after a few thousand miles.
> Mike.
>

Snap, my synth is golden when it goes in, and comes out a slightly dirty
golden

J

In article >,
Jim Levie > wrote:
> BMW's fully synthetic oil starts off pretty black so the visual
> appearance isn't much of a clue.

The Castrol they use in the UK looks pretty well the same as any other
oil when new - sort of golden. Assuming that's what the dealer put in - I
certainly paid for it. ;-)

--
*Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Holger Hirschfeld" > wrote in message
...
> Hi
>
> Very funny, indeed.
>
> Last weekend. On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 19:27:09 -0500, "John E Yurkon"
> > wrote:

> >It was my understanding that you want a little oil
> >consumption, otherwise the upper cylinders aren't being lubricated well
> >enough.
>
> I can´t believe that. If the Level is between Min - and Max,
> everything should be perfect... So i was thinking at least. On the
> contrary:

All engines burn oil. In general the less the better, but an engine that
didn't burn any oil at all, wouldn't run for very long.
Mike.