90 dodge spirit fuel pump

I have a 90 dodge spirit with a 2.5L (non-turbo) where the fuel pump is having
troubles. First of all, I can't hear the pump. Most of the time, when the car
is turned on, the voltage going to the fuel reads .005V. When the engine is
cranked, it reads a steady 10.4V. Once when the car was turned to the ON
position, it flashed about 12V, then went back down to 0.
According to this site http://www.allpar.com/fix/fuelpump.html , if you get a
flash of 12, then back down, it means the PCM has grounded the ASD relay. It
also says that if you get a steady reading of 10-12 while cranking the engine,
it's probably the fuel pump.
If the PCM grounded the ASD relay, what could cause that and how do I fix it?
Can I test the ASD relay? If so, where's it installed at?
As it is, it looks like I'm going to have to replace the fuel pump. On this
car, there is a little room behind the gas tank, but according to the manual,
I'm going to have to drop out the gas tank. Is there anything else it could
be?
Thanks,
Wes

When you start the vehicle the ASD relay closes and energizes the Coil,
injectors and fuel pump. if the vehicle does not start within 3 sec the
ASD shuts down and will not allow voltage to the pump, injectors or fuel
pump, So have someone take a test lite to the fuel pump to see if you have
12v and a good ground while cranking. you should hear the pump running in
the tank, if not hit the bottom of the tank to see if it kicks on

When you start the vehicle the ASD relay closes and energizes the Coil,
injectors and fuel pump. if the vehicle does not start within 3 sec the
ASD shuts down and will not allow voltage to the pump, injectors or fuel
pump, So have someone take a test lite to the fuel pump to see if you have
12v and a good ground while cranking. you should hear the pump running in
the tank, if not hit the bottom of the tank to see if it kicks on

OK, Here's some more information.
Unplugging the fuel pump makes the car not run at all. With it plugged in,
I can keep pumping the gas and keep it running.
When I unplug the fuel pump, ground my multimeter and touch the other end of
the multimeter to the green (with black stripe) wire, it completes a
circuit. Same thing with the black wire (ground).
With it unplugged, I check the hot wire going to the fuel pump while
somebody's cranking on it, and it reads about 10.4V (battery could be
getting low by now).
I never hear the pump running.
I'm going to try to see if I can get my hands on a Haynes manual tonight
since my Chilton's doesn't have wiring diagrams. Does the ground wire go
directly back to the ECM? I assume the ASD is on the 'hot' side of the
wiring since that's the only way to guarantee that power's cut off to the
fuel pump.
According to allpar.com, it's possible the computer has grounded the ASD
relay. If that's the case, does that mean I need to get another one? Which
relay is the ASD relay? On my car, I have 3 in a row on the drivers side of
the engine bay by the ECM. I assume it's one of those.
Anybody have any ideas? I'd prefer not to have to replace the fuel pump
since it looks like it takes a while (and the part runs at least $110).
Thanks,
Wes



"damnnickname" > wrote in message
lkaboutautos.com...
> When you start the vehicle the ASD relay closes and energizes the Coil,
> injectors and fuel pump. if the vehicle does not start within 3 sec the
> ASD shuts down and will not allow voltage to the pump, injectors or fuel
> pump, So have someone take a test lite to the fuel pump to see if you have
> 12v and a good ground while cranking. you should hear the pump running in
> the tank, if not hit the bottom of the tank to see if it kicks on
>
>

OK, Here's some more information.
Unplugging the fuel pump makes the car not run at all. With it plugged in,
I can keep pumping the gas and keep it running.
When I unplug the fuel pump, ground my multimeter and touch the other end of
the multimeter to the green (with black stripe) wire, it completes a
circuit. Same thing with the black wire (ground).
With it unplugged, I check the hot wire going to the fuel pump while
somebody's cranking on it, and it reads about 10.4V (battery could be
getting low by now).
I never hear the pump running.
I'm going to try to see if I can get my hands on a Haynes manual tonight
since my Chilton's doesn't have wiring diagrams. Does the ground wire go
directly back to the ECM? I assume the ASD is on the 'hot' side of the
wiring since that's the only way to guarantee that power's cut off to the
fuel pump.
According to allpar.com, it's possible the computer has grounded the ASD
relay. If that's the case, does that mean I need to get another one? Which
relay is the ASD relay? On my car, I have 3 in a row on the drivers side of
the engine bay by the ECM. I assume it's one of those.
Anybody have any ideas? I'd prefer not to have to replace the fuel pump
since it looks like it takes a while (and the part runs at least $110).
Thanks,
Wes



"damnnickname" > wrote in message
lkaboutautos.com...
> When you start the vehicle the ASD relay closes and energizes the Coil,
> injectors and fuel pump. if the vehicle does not start within 3 sec the
> ASD shuts down and will not allow voltage to the pump, injectors or fuel
> pump, So have someone take a test lite to the fuel pump to see if you have
> 12v and a good ground while cranking. you should hear the pump running in
> the tank, if not hit the bottom of the tank to see if it kicks on
>
>

Wes Faul wrote:

> OK, Here's some more information.
> Unplugging the fuel pump makes the car not run at all. With it plugged in,
> I can keep pumping the gas and keep it running.

What is your fuel pressure with the pump plugged in? Its possible for a
pump to run but not deliver enough fuel pressure.

Wes Faul wrote:

> OK, Here's some more information.
> Unplugging the fuel pump makes the car not run at all. With it plugged in,
> I can keep pumping the gas and keep it running.

What is your fuel pressure with the pump plugged in? Its possible for a
pump to run but not deliver enough fuel pressure.

Wes Faul wrote:

> I'm going to try to see if I can get my hands on a Haynes manual tonight
> since my Chilton's doesn't have wiring diagrams. Does the ground wire go
> directly back to the ECM? I assume the ASD is on the 'hot' side of the
> wiring since that's the only way to guarantee that power's cut off to the
> fuel pump.
> According to allpar.com, it's possible the computer has grounded the ASD
> relay. If that's the case, does that mean I need to get another one? Which
> relay is the ASD relay? On my car, I have 3 in a row on the drivers side of
> the engine bay by the ECM. I assume it's one of those.
> Anybody have any ideas? I'd prefer not to have to replace the fuel pump
> since it looks like it takes a while (and the part runs at least $110).
> Thanks,
> Wes
>

Don't trust the Haynes manual for anything other than wiping your
hands after you've found the problem by following the diagrams in the
FSM, especially for a wiring problem. Haynew uses "generic" wiring
diagrams, as does Chiltons.

Wes Faul wrote:

> I'm going to try to see if I can get my hands on a Haynes manual tonight
> since my Chilton's doesn't have wiring diagrams. Does the ground wire go
> directly back to the ECM? I assume the ASD is on the 'hot' side of the
> wiring since that's the only way to guarantee that power's cut off to the
> fuel pump.
> According to allpar.com, it's possible the computer has grounded the ASD
> relay. If that's the case, does that mean I need to get another one? Which
> relay is the ASD relay? On my car, I have 3 in a row on the drivers side of
> the engine bay by the ECM. I assume it's one of those.
> Anybody have any ideas? I'd prefer not to have to replace the fuel pump
> since it looks like it takes a while (and the part runs at least $110).
> Thanks,
> Wes
>

Don't trust the Haynes manual for anything other than wiping your
hands after you've found the problem by following the diagrams in the
FSM, especially for a wiring problem. Haynew uses "generic" wiring
diagrams, as does Chiltons.

On Fri, 3 Dec 2004, Wes Faul wrote:

> I'm going to try to see if I can get my hands on a Haynes manual tonight
> since my Chilton's doesn't have wiring diagrams.

Out of the frying pan, into the fire. Haynes and Chilton's are both
garbage. You need to get a *factory* service manual. They are easily
available new from the dealer parts counter, or used from numerous sources
listed on hemmings.com or on ebay.

> According to allpar.com, it's possible the computer has grounded the ASD
> relay.

The computer cannot "ground the ASD relay" as such. It completes or breaks
the ASD relay trigger circuit (across terminals 85 and 86 of the ASD
relay) to turn the relay on and off.

If that's the case, does that mean I need to get another one? Which
> relay is the ASD relay? On my car, I have 3 in a row on the drivers side of
> the engine bay by the ECM. I assume it's one of those.

This is one of the reasons you need the factory service manual! The ASD
relay is the frontmost one.

> Anybody have any ideas? I'd prefer not to have to replace the fuel pump

But you're probably going to wind up doing so, based on what you've posted
here.

DS