Do gas stations really water down their gas?

Why take a chance to save pennies...

Local gaS CO-OP - in my city. ( by joining your local fuel co-op, you
actually save more than by usign a discount outlet.)

Line companies only when travelling.If they don't refine, I keep
looking.
cheers
Reg


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Reg Saretsky
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The in-ground fuel tanks may seep water. After a few decades in the
ground, any of us would start rotting. Many places may notice the
water in their fuel,but neglect to replace the tanks.

Intentionally watering the fuel is, I hope, more rare. It is done, but
you should be able to tell which stations to feed your car by using the
guideline, "Would I eat from there?"


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Truck
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Truck wrote:
> The in-ground fuel tanks may seep water. After a few decades in the
> ground, any of us would start rotting. Many places may notice the
> water in their fuel,but neglect to replace the tanks.
>
> Intentionally watering the fuel is, I hope, more rare. It is done, but
> you should be able to tell which stations to feed your car by using the
> guideline, "Would I eat from there?"
>
>
Water in the older storage tanks would rust thru and cause ground
contamination. It's very unlikely you would get any appreciable amount
in your fuel, as a) it doesn't mix with gasoline and b) it would cause
your car to stall ( it doesn't burn)

However, water in todays fuels is definitely an issue, as many of the
brands are mixed with anhydrous alcohol. Alcohol DOES absorb water and
will dilute the fuel. Any station switching to alcohol based fuels
have to get their tanks cleaned out or replaced. The newer pumps have
water analyzers, which will switch the pump off if the concentration
gets too high. Then the fuel has to be pumped out and replaced.

Alcohol is a very good cleaning agent. If you are having an issue with
fuels, it could be due to the alcohol cleaning the varnish and other
residues out of your fuel system. You'll have to put up with it for a
few months until the system is cleaned thoroughly.
If the alcohol based fuels have a high concentration of water
absorbed, but less than the cut off point, then your mileage will suffer
considerably. Alcohol, to begin with, doesn't have the BTU value of
gasoline and with water in it, it has a lot less. So you'll be filling
your tank frequently..... at the same price as good gasoline

Bob Johnstone > wrote in article
>...
> Truck wrote:
> > The in-ground fuel tanks may seep water. After a few decades in the
> > ground, any of us would start rotting. Many places may notice the
> > water in their fuel,but neglect to replace the tanks.
> >
> > Intentionally watering the fuel is, I hope, more rare. It is done, but
> > you should be able to tell which stations to feed your car by using the
> > guideline, "Would I eat from there?"
> >
> >
> Water in the older storage tanks would rust thru and cause ground
> contamination. It's very unlikely you would get any appreciable amount
> in your fuel, as a) it doesn't mix with gasoline and b) it would cause
> your car to stall ( it doesn't burn)
>
> However, water in todays fuels is definitely an issue, as many of the
> brands are mixed with anhydrous alcohol. Alcohol DOES absorb water and
> will dilute the fuel. Any station switching to alcohol based fuels
> have to get their tanks cleaned out or replaced. The newer pumps have
> water analyzers, which will switch the pump off if the concentration
> gets too high. Then the fuel has to be pumped out and replaced.
>
> Alcohol is a very good cleaning agent. If you are having an issue with
> fuels, it could be due to the alcohol cleaning the varnish and other
> residues out of your fuel system. You'll have to put up with it for a
> few months until the system is cleaned thoroughly.
> If the alcohol based fuels have a high concentration of water
> absorbed, but less than the cut off point, then your mileage will suffer
> considerably. Alcohol, to begin with, doesn't have the BTU value of
> gasoline and with water in it, it has a lot less. So you'll be filling
> your tank frequently..... at the same price as good gasoline
>


When water mixes with alcohol in a gasohol mixture, the water/alcohol mix
precipitates out of the gasoline - leaving gasoline only with a
water/alcohol mix at the bottom of the storage tank.

* wrote:
> Bob Johnstone > wrote in article
> >...
>> Truck wrote:
>>> The in-ground fuel tanks may seep water. After a few decades in the
>>> ground, any of us would start rotting. Many places may notice the
>>> water in their fuel,but neglect to replace the tanks.
>>>
>>> Intentionally watering the fuel is, I hope, more rare. It is done, but
>>> you should be able to tell which stations to feed your car by using the
>>> guideline, "Would I eat from there?"
>>>
>>>
>> Water in the older storage tanks would rust thru and cause ground
>> contamination. It's very unlikely you would get any appreciable amount
>> in your fuel, as a) it doesn't mix with gasoline and b) it would cause
>> your car to stall ( it doesn't burn)
>>
>> However, water in todays fuels is definitely an issue, as many of the
>> brands are mixed with anhydrous alcohol. Alcohol DOES absorb water and
>> will dilute the fuel. Any station switching to alcohol based fuels
>> have to get their tanks cleaned out or replaced. The newer pumps have
>> water analyzers, which will switch the pump off if the concentration
>> gets too high. Then the fuel has to be pumped out and replaced.
>>
>> Alcohol is a very good cleaning agent. If you are having an issue with
>> fuels, it could be due to the alcohol cleaning the varnish and other
>> residues out of your fuel system. You'll have to put up with it for a
>> few months until the system is cleaned thoroughly.
>> If the alcohol based fuels have a high concentration of water
>> absorbed, but less than the cut off point, then your mileage will suffer
>> considerably. Alcohol, to begin with, doesn't have the BTU value of
>> gasoline and with water in it, it has a lot less. So you'll be filling
>> your tank frequently..... at the same price as good gasoline
>>
>
>
> When water mixes with alcohol in a gasohol mixture, the water/alcohol mix
> precipitates out of the gasoline - leaving gasoline only with a
> water/alcohol mix at the bottom of the storage tank.
>
>

It will precipitate out when the amount of water exceeds the alcohols
ability to keep it in suspension. Might not be a big difference between
your statement and mine, but you can definitely pump, water diluted,
gasohol with no precipitate, into your car. The performance will
suffer considerably.
When you add a pint of gas line antifreeze, in the winter to
prevent/cure condensation from freezing, the purpose is to absorb the
water and still be miscible with the gasoline, so it gets removed and
burned. Of course, there's a limit...

Bob Johnstone > wrote in article
>...
> * wrote:
> > Bob Johnstone > wrote in article
> > >...
> >> Truck wrote:
> >>> The in-ground fuel tanks may seep water. After a few decades in the
> >>> ground, any of us would start rotting. Many places may notice the
> >>> water in their fuel,but neglect to replace the tanks.
> >>>
> >>> Intentionally watering the fuel is, I hope, more rare. It is done,
but
> >>> you should be able to tell which stations to feed your car by using
the
> >>> guideline, "Would I eat from there?"
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Water in the older storage tanks would rust thru and cause ground
> >> contamination. It's very unlikely you would get any appreciable
amount
> >> in your fuel, as a) it doesn't mix with gasoline and b) it would
cause
> >> your car to stall ( it doesn't burn)
> >>
> >> However, water in todays fuels is definitely an issue, as many of the
> >> brands are mixed with anhydrous alcohol. Alcohol DOES absorb water
and
> >> will dilute the fuel. Any station switching to alcohol based fuels
> >> have to get their tanks cleaned out or replaced. The newer pumps have

> >> water analyzers, which will switch the pump off if the concentration
> >> gets too high. Then the fuel has to be pumped out and replaced.
> >>
> >> Alcohol is a very good cleaning agent. If you are having an issue
with
> >> fuels, it could be due to the alcohol cleaning the varnish and other
> >> residues out of your fuel system. You'll have to put up with it for a

> >> few months until the system is cleaned thoroughly.
> >> If the alcohol based fuels have a high concentration of water
> >> absorbed, but less than the cut off point, then your mileage will
suffer
> >> considerably. Alcohol, to begin with, doesn't have the BTU value of
> >> gasoline and with water in it, it has a lot less. So you'll be
filling
> >> your tank frequently..... at the same price as good gasoline
> >>
> >
> >
> > When water mixes with alcohol in a gasohol mixture, the water/alcohol
mix
> > precipitates out of the gasoline - leaving gasoline only with a
> > water/alcohol mix at the bottom of the storage tank.
> >
> >
>
> It will precipitate out when the amount of water exceeds the alcohols
> ability to keep it in suspension. Might not be a big difference between
> your statement and mine, but you can definitely pump, water diluted,
> gasohol with no precipitate, into your car. The performance will
> suffer considerably.
> When you add a pint of gas line antifreeze, in the winter to
> prevent/cure condensation from freezing, the purpose is to absorb the
> water and still be miscible with the gasoline, so it gets removed and
> burned. Of course, there's a limit...
>

I worked on gasohol experiments with the State of Maine testing lab in the
late '70s, and we discovered that a single pint of "dry gas" (methanol)
would go straight to the bottom of the tank with the presence of ANY water.

One syringe of water in a gallon of ten percent gasohol would cause the
alcohol/water mixture to precipitate.

It does NOT cause water and gasoline to mix.

Drain off a tank with alcohol/water in it, and you can see the water at the
bottom of the container - just the same as if there were no alcohol in the
mix.

Alcohol only keeps the water from freezing in the tank until it can be run
through the fuel system - with expected stumbles and performance issues.

* wrote:
> Bob Johnstone > wrote in article
> >...
>> * wrote:
>>> Bob Johnstone > wrote in article
>>> >...
>>>> Truck wrote:
>>>>> The in-ground fuel tanks may seep water. After a few decades in the
>>>>> ground, any of us would start rotting. Many places may notice the
>>>>> water in their fuel,but neglect to replace the tanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Intentionally watering the fuel is, I hope, more rare. It is done,
> but
>>>>> you should be able to tell which stations to feed your car by using
> the
>>>>> guideline, "Would I eat from there?"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Water in the older storage tanks would rust thru and cause ground
>>>> contamination. It's very unlikely you would get any appreciable
> amount
>>>> in your fuel, as a) it doesn't mix with gasoline and b) it would
> cause
>>>> your car to stall ( it doesn't burn)
>>>>
>>>> However, water in todays fuels is definitely an issue, as many of the
>>>> brands are mixed with anhydrous alcohol. Alcohol DOES absorb water
> and
>>>> will dilute the fuel. Any station switching to alcohol based fuels
>>>> have to get their tanks cleaned out or replaced. The newer pumps have
>
>>>> water analyzers, which will switch the pump off if the concentration
>>>> gets too high. Then the fuel has to be pumped out and replaced.
>>>>
>>>> Alcohol is a very good cleaning agent. If you are having an issue
> with
>>>> fuels, it could be due to the alcohol cleaning the varnish and other
>>>> residues out of your fuel system. You'll have to put up with it for a
>
>>>> few months until the system is cleaned thoroughly.
>>>> If the alcohol based fuels have a high concentration of water
>>>> absorbed, but less than the cut off point, then your mileage will
> suffer
>>>> considerably. Alcohol, to begin with, doesn't have the BTU value of
>>>> gasoline and with water in it, it has a lot less. So you'll be
> filling
>>>> your tank frequently..... at the same price as good gasoline
>>>>
>>>
>>> When water mixes with alcohol in a gasohol mixture, the water/alcohol
> mix
>>> precipitates out of the gasoline - leaving gasoline only with a
>>> water/alcohol mix at the bottom of the storage tank.
>>>
>>>
>> It will precipitate out when the amount of water exceeds the alcohols
>> ability to keep it in suspension. Might not be a big difference between
>> your statement and mine, but you can definitely pump, water diluted,
>> gasohol with no precipitate, into your car. The performance will
>> suffer considerably.
>> When you add a pint of gas line antifreeze, in the winter to
>> prevent/cure condensation from freezing, the purpose is to absorb the
>> water and still be miscible with the gasoline, so it gets removed and
>> burned. Of course, there's a limit...
>>
>
> I worked on gasohol experiments with the State of Maine testing lab in the
> late '70s, and we discovered that a single pint of "dry gas" (methanol)
> would go straight to the bottom of the tank with the presence of ANY water.
>
> One syringe of water in a gallon of ten percent gasohol would cause the
> alcohol/water mixture to precipitate.
>
> It does NOT cause water and gasoline to mix.
>
> Drain off a tank with alcohol/water in it, and you can see the water at the
> bottom of the container - just the same as if there were no alcohol in the
> mix.
>
> Alcohol only keeps the water from freezing in the tank until it can be run
> through the fuel system - with expected stumbles and performance issues.
>
>

Well, this isn't the 70's. ...and gasoline formulations are a bit
different today, which is what the alky replacing the MTBE is all about.
I didn't say that gasoline would absorb the water.... I said alcohol
will. Gasohol is a mix of more gasoline than alcohol and the alcohol
is hygroscopic, which means it has a limited but verifiable ability to
absorb water. Of course it will precipitate at a point, which is what
I stated.
In the case of E-85? Where's the contaminated solution going to
precipitate to, when practically the entire tankful is alcohol?