Jeep Starter Problem - 93 YJ

I don't know if anyone has had this problem but, here is the situation.

My wife's 93 YJ would not start one morning. No extreme weather, no
symptoms of slow start or anything. The Jeep would make a click noise at
the starter. The starter was trying to engage, but would never spin.
After trying to wack the starter with a mallot to break it loose, my
thought was to replace the starter. This did not fix the problem. Same
symptom as before.

Next is was the starter relay to be replaced. Once again, no solution. I
swapped an Optima battery into the Jeep thinking that it might be that
the battery didn't have enough juice. That did not work either. At this
point, I am on the internet trying to find a solution???

I have looked for loose wiring, but all seems fine. The ground wire from
the battery goes to the Jeep body, and another from the battery goes to
the engine block. Both connections and wiring look sound. All the
connections at the starter are good.

The only clue I have is that while my wife was undoing the top nut on
the starter, she caused something to cross, and the jeep turned over???
I had her disconnect the battery, and then press on. This happened with
the original starter. I assumed that the starter had just come out of
it's locked up position and it was explainable.

So, Jeep won't start. Turn ignition, and get click, power, wipers, and
an electical click at the starter. The starter is just not turning. Any
suggestions? Thanks for your ideas.

If the starter clicks but does not spin, try this: turn on the
headlights, then try the starter. If the lights work ok, then turn off
when you try the starter, you have a bad power cable. Have someone hold
the starter in the on position for a few moments, then feel the cable
ends going to the battery, ground, and starter. If one is hot, you have
your culprit. Be carefull, they get REALLY hot if you hold the key for
too long.

Lawson[rem0ve]news wrote:
> I don't know if anyone has had this problem but, here is the situation.
>
> My wife's 93 YJ would not start one morning. No extreme weather, no
> symptoms of slow start or anything. The Jeep would make a click noise at
> the starter. The starter was trying to engage, but would never spin.
> After trying to wack the starter with a mallot to break it loose, my
> thought was to replace the starter. This did not fix the problem. Same
> symptom as before.
>
> Next is was the starter relay to be replaced. Once again, no solution. I
> swapped an Optima battery into the Jeep thinking that it might be that
> the battery didn't have enough juice. That did not work either. At this
> point, I am on the internet trying to find a solution???
>
> I have looked for loose wiring, but all seems fine. The ground wire from
> the battery goes to the Jeep body, and another from the battery goes to
> the engine block. Both connections and wiring look sound. All the
> connections at the starter are good.
>
> The only clue I have is that while my wife was undoing the top nut on
> the starter, she caused something to cross, and the jeep turned over???
> I had her disconnect the battery, and then press on. This happened with
> the original starter. I assumed that the starter had just come out of
> it's locked up position and it was explainable.
>
> So, Jeep won't start. Turn ignition, and get click, power, wipers, and
> an electical click at the starter. The starter is just not turning. Any
> suggestions? Thanks for your ideas.
>

Lawson,
What I thnk your wife found was a loose wire in a terminal.. Push the
wire(s) toward the connectors while someone turns the key and maybe use
a slight left & right motion. This would help determine a defective
wire connector. Just as Roy suggested your positive cable may be bad
but most likely at the connector (otherwise you would see a gash or
burnt group of wires along that harness highway).
As for 'looking' at the frame ground, removing the bolt (if not rusted
on), removing and wire brushing all surfaces, wiping clean and
reattaching is the only way to ensure a good contact. Than again - the
wire to the terminal could be bad to the wire.
In this situation you describe, you would be able read the proper
voltage or resistance but the starter would still not be receiving the
proper cranking amps.
Good Luck,
Steve
By the way, before buying a new starter I would always put the starter
in question on the ground secured with my foot and strap jumper cables
accross the stater. This saved me bucks in the past but I don't know
if this method would still work with todays starters.

Ok, I would try the starter a bunch of times, then go and 'carefully'
feel all the battery cables at the ends.

If you find one warm or even burning hot, you have found the bad
connection. My guess is the negative connection on the block.

Then you could have just gotten a bad starter. I would hook a booster
cable to the starter power bolt, make sure the Jeep is in neutral or
park and touch the cable clamp to the battery positive to verify it
actually turns.

If it turns, then one of those connections that 'looks' good isn't.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"Lawson[rem0ve]news" wrote:
>
> I don't know if anyone has had this problem but, here is the situation.
>
> My wife's 93 YJ would not start one morning. No extreme weather, no
> symptoms of slow start or anything. The Jeep would make a click noise at
> the starter. The starter was trying to engage, but would never spin.
> After trying to wack the starter with a mallot to break it loose, my
> thought was to replace the starter. This did not fix the problem. Same
> symptom as before.
>
> Next is was the starter relay to be replaced. Once again, no solution. I
> swapped an Optima battery into the Jeep thinking that it might be that
> the battery didn't have enough juice. That did not work either. At this
> point, I am on the internet trying to find a solution???
>
> I have looked for loose wiring, but all seems fine. The ground wire from
> the battery goes to the Jeep body, and another from the battery goes to
> the engine block. Both connections and wiring look sound. All the
> connections at the starter are good.
>
> The only clue I have is that while my wife was undoing the top nut on
> the starter, she caused something to cross, and the jeep turned over???
> I had her disconnect the battery, and then press on. This happened with
> the original starter. I assumed that the starter had just come out of
> it's locked up position and it was explainable.
>
> So, Jeep won't start. Turn ignition, and get click, power, wipers, and
> an electical click at the starter. The starter is just not turning. Any
> suggestions? Thanks for your ideas.

Thank you. I will pass these thoughts along to my wife. Any thoughts on
whether it might be the ignition switch? Hopefully one of these things
will cure here problem.

Lawson

Lawson[rem0ve]news wrote:

> I don't know if anyone has had this problem but, here is the situation.
>
> My wife's 93 YJ would not start one morning. No extreme weather, no
> symptoms of slow start or anything. The Jeep would make a click noise
> at the starter. The starter was trying to engage, but would never
> spin. After trying to wack the starter with a mallot to break it
> loose, my thought was to replace the starter. This did not fix the
> problem. Same symptom as before.
>
> Next is was the starter relay to be replaced. Once again, no solution.
> I swapped an Optima battery into the Jeep thinking that it might be
> that the battery didn't have enough juice. That did not work either.
> At this point, I am on the internet trying to find a solution???
>
> I have looked for loose wiring, but all seems fine. The ground wire
> from the battery goes to the Jeep body, and another from the battery
> goes to the engine block. Both connections and wiring look sound. All
> the connections at the starter are good.
>
> The only clue I have is that while my wife was undoing the top nut on
> the starter, she caused something to cross, and the jeep turned
> over??? I had her disconnect the battery, and then press on. This
> happened with the original starter. I assumed that the starter had
> just come out of it's locked up position and it was explainable.
>
> So, Jeep won't start. Turn ignition, and get click, power, wipers, and
> an electical click at the starter. The starter is just not turning.
> Any suggestions? Thanks for your ideas.
>

If the starter clicks or the starter relay clicks, then the keyswitch is
likely ok. It doesn't have to pass high power through it.

One other thing. If I remember right, that fender relay hs 2 green
wires on it or something silly. I have seen folks mix those up when
changing the relays. One has a stripe I think.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"Lawson[rem0ve]news" wrote:
>
> Thank you. I will pass these thoughts along to my wife. Any thoughts on
> whether it might be the ignition switch? Hopefully one of these things
> will cure here problem.
>
> Lawson
>
> Lawson[rem0ve]news wrote:
>
> > I don't know if anyone has had this problem but, here is the situation.
> >
> > My wife's 93 YJ would not start one morning. No extreme weather, no
> > symptoms of slow start or anything. The Jeep would make a click noise
> > at the starter. The starter was trying to engage, but would never
> > spin. After trying to wack the starter with a mallot to break it
> > loose, my thought was to replace the starter. This did not fix the
> > problem. Same symptom as before.
> >
> > Next is was the starter relay to be replaced. Once again, no solution.
> > I swapped an Optima battery into the Jeep thinking that it might be
> > that the battery didn't have enough juice. That did not work either.
> > At this point, I am on the internet trying to find a solution???
> >
> > I have looked for loose wiring, but all seems fine. The ground wire
> > from the battery goes to the Jeep body, and another from the battery
> > goes to the engine block. Both connections and wiring look sound. All
> > the connections at the starter are good.
> >
> > The only clue I have is that while my wife was undoing the top nut on
> > the starter, she caused something to cross, and the jeep turned
> > over??? I had her disconnect the battery, and then press on. This
> > happened with the original starter. I assumed that the starter had
> > just come out of it's locked up position and it was explainable.
> >
> > So, Jeep won't start. Turn ignition, and get click, power, wipers, and
> > an electical click at the starter. The starter is just not turning.
> > Any suggestions? Thanks for your ideas.
> >

Ok, Thanks for all the suggestions.... but still same problem.

1. Lights on tried to start, lights remained consistently bright the
whole time.
2. Cleaned ground wires from battery to body and engine block.
3. All wires look solid, no burns or weak spots.
4. Held ignition in start position for about 10-15 seconds and felt for
hot wires. Everything cool.
5. Tried to start the vehicle multiple times, 10 or so, and felt wires
looking for hot wires. Everything cool
6. Tried to start while wiggling the battery terminal wires. All
terminal wires appear firmly planted in end.

Have not replaced the ignition?

Am going to roll the engine by pushing in 2nd gear, just to advance the
engine and make sure nothing locked up? I don't suspect this to be a
problem, but maybe something is jammed. Tried to bounce the car while in
gear yesterday while in gear to jar the starter, etc. No luck.

The power seems to get to the starter, there is a sound like hitting the
block with a small hammer. Sounds like the starter is engaging, but
hitting an object that won't give. The sound is not an electrical click,
but an engaging sound like the starter hitting the flywheel but going no
where. Still looking for any more suggestions. Rolling the car in gear
is next, followed by replacing the ignition.

Is there anyway to jump the car at the solenoid? If I can jump at the
solenoid, then is it the ignition?

Thanks.

Lawson



Lawson[rem0ve]news wrote:

> I don't know if anyone has had this problem but, here is the situation.
>
> My wife's 93 YJ would not start one morning. No extreme weather, no
> symptoms of slow start or anything. The Jeep would make a click noise
> at the starter. The starter was trying to engage, but would never
> spin. After trying to wack the starter with a mallot to break it
> loose, my thought was to replace the starter. This did not fix the
> problem. Same symptom as before.
>
> Next is was the starter relay to be replaced. Once again, no solution.
> I swapped an Optima battery into the Jeep thinking that it might be
> that the battery didn't have enough juice. That did not work either.
> At this point, I am on the internet trying to find a solution???
>
> I have looked for loose wiring, but all seems fine. The ground wire
> from the battery goes to the Jeep body, and another from the battery
> goes to the engine block. Both connections and wiring look sound. All
> the connections at the starter are good.
>
> The only clue I have is that while my wife was undoing the top nut on
> the starter, she caused something to cross, and the jeep turned
> over??? I had her disconnect the battery, and then press on. This
> happened with the original starter. I assumed that the starter had
> just come out of it's locked up position and it was explainable.
>
> So, Jeep won't start. Turn ignition, and get click, power, wipers, and
> an electical click at the starter. The starter is just not turning.
> Any suggestions? Thanks for your ideas.
>

Bad connection still....

As I mentioned before, you can put a booster cable onto the starter
power bolt and touch it to the battery positive. If the starter is
good, it will spin up.

Is that some type of starter that needs a shim? What engine is it?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's



"Lawson[rem0ve]news" wrote:
>
> Ok, Thanks for all the suggestions.... but still same problem.
>
> 1. Lights on tried to start, lights remained consistently bright the
> whole time.
> 2. Cleaned ground wires from battery to body and engine block.
> 3. All wires look solid, no burns or weak spots.
> 4. Held ignition in start position for about 10-15 seconds and felt for
> hot wires. Everything cool.
> 5. Tried to start the vehicle multiple times, 10 or so, and felt wires
> looking for hot wires. Everything cool
> 6. Tried to start while wiggling the battery terminal wires. All
> terminal wires appear firmly planted in end.
>
> Have not replaced the ignition?
>
> Am going to roll the engine by pushing in 2nd gear, just to advance the
> engine and make sure nothing locked up? I don't suspect this to be a
> problem, but maybe something is jammed. Tried to bounce the car while in
> gear yesterday while in gear to jar the starter, etc. No luck.
>
> The power seems to get to the starter, there is a sound like hitting the
> block with a small hammer. Sounds like the starter is engaging, but
> hitting an object that won't give. The sound is not an electrical click,
> but an engaging sound like the starter hitting the flywheel but going no
> where. Still looking for any more suggestions. Rolling the car in gear
> is next, followed by replacing the ignition.
>
> Is there anyway to jump the car at the solenoid? If I can jump at the
> solenoid, then is it the ignition?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Lawson
>
> Lawson[rem0ve]news wrote:
>
> > I don't know if anyone has had this problem but, here is the situation.
> >
> > My wife's 93 YJ would not start one morning. No extreme weather, no
> > symptoms of slow start or anything. The Jeep would make a click noise
> > at the starter. The starter was trying to engage, but would never
> > spin. After trying to wack the starter with a mallot to break it
> > loose, my thought was to replace the starter. This did not fix the
> > problem. Same symptom as before.
> >
> > Next is was the starter relay to be replaced. Once again, no solution.
> > I swapped an Optima battery into the Jeep thinking that it might be
> > that the battery didn't have enough juice. That did not work either.
> > At this point, I am on the internet trying to find a solution???
> >
> > I have looked for loose wiring, but all seems fine. The ground wire
> > from the battery goes to the Jeep body, and another from the battery
> > goes to the engine block. Both connections and wiring look sound. All
> > the connections at the starter are good.
> >
> > The only clue I have is that while my wife was undoing the top nut on
> > the starter, she caused something to cross, and the jeep turned
> > over??? I had her disconnect the battery, and then press on. This
> > happened with the original starter. I assumed that the starter had
> > just come out of it's locked up position and it was explainable.
> >
> > So, Jeep won't start. Turn ignition, and get click, power, wipers, and
> > an electical click at the starter. The starter is just not turning.
> > Any suggestions? Thanks for your ideas.
> >

The engine is a 4.0 Liter. There was no shim that I noticed before. Just
replaced the starter, but will try to spin up.

To spin up. You say from battery positive to ignition connection
(starter power bolt) on the solenoid.

Can I just jump the connection at the solenoid? The solenoid has three
connections. The positive one from the battery, the wire that runs to
the ignition, and a wire from the solenoid to the starter. Can I just
connect the two terminals at the solenoid, the battery positive, and the
ignition? What does it mean if it does or doesn't' spin up?

Thanks for your help on this. My wife has a jeep book that does suggest
the ignition. Someone mentioned that the ignition would not be the
answer, but I am running out of other ideas! If I can jump the
connection and get the starter to turn, does that mean bad ignition switch?

I'm losing my mind today. Currently fighting printer problems that I
have had for 3 days. Between that and the Jeep, I am quite fed up.

Again, we appreciate the help.

Lawson

Mike Romain wrote:

>Bad connection still....
>
>As I mentioned before, you can put a booster cable onto the starter
>power bolt and touch it to the battery positive. If the starter is
>good, it will spin up.
>
>Is that some type of starter that needs a shim? What engine is it?
>
>Mike
>86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
>88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
>
>
>"Lawson[rem0ve]news" wrote:
>
>
>>Ok, Thanks for all the suggestions.... but still same problem.
>>
>>1. Lights on tried to start, lights remained consistently bright the
>>whole time.
>>2. Cleaned ground wires from battery to body and engine block.
>>3. All wires look solid, no burns or weak spots.
>>4. Held ignition in start position for about 10-15 seconds and felt for
>>hot wires. Everything cool.
>>5. Tried to start the vehicle multiple times, 10 or so, and felt wires
>>looking for hot wires. Everything cool
>>6. Tried to start while wiggling the battery terminal wires. All
>>terminal wires appear firmly planted in end.
>>
>>Have not replaced the ignition?
>>
>>Am going to roll the engine by pushing in 2nd gear, just to advance the
>>engine and make sure nothing locked up? I don't suspect this to be a
>>problem, but maybe something is jammed. Tried to bounce the car while in
>>gear yesterday while in gear to jar the starter, etc. No luck.
>>
>>The power seems to get to the starter, there is a sound like hitting the
>>block with a small hammer. Sounds like the starter is engaging, but
>>hitting an object that won't give. The sound is not an electrical click,
>>but an engaging sound like the starter hitting the flywheel but going no
>>where. Still looking for any more suggestions. Rolling the car in gear
>>is next, followed by replacing the ignition.
>>
>>Is there anyway to jump the car at the solenoid? If I can jump at the
>>solenoid, then is it the ignition?
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>Lawson
>>
>>Lawson[rem0ve]news wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I don't know if anyone has had this problem but, here is the situation.
>>>
>>>My wife's 93 YJ would not start one morning. No extreme weather, no
>>>symptoms of slow start or anything. The Jeep would make a click noise
>>>at the starter. The starter was trying to engage, but would never
>>>spin. After trying to wack the starter with a mallot to break it
>>>loose, my thought was to replace the starter. This did not fix the
>>>problem. Same symptom as before.
>>>
>>>Next is was the starter relay to be replaced. Once again, no solution.
>>>I swapped an Optima battery into the Jeep thinking that it might be
>>>that the battery didn't have enough juice. That did not work either.
>>>At this point, I am on the internet trying to find a solution???
>>>
>>>I have looked for loose wiring, but all seems fine. The ground wire
>>>from the battery goes to the Jeep body, and another from the battery
>>>goes to the engine block. Both connections and wiring look sound. All
>>>the connections at the starter are good.
>>>
>>>The only clue I have is that while my wife was undoing the top nut on
>>>the starter, she caused something to cross, and the jeep turned
>>>over??? I had her disconnect the battery, and then press on. This
>>>happened with the original starter. I assumed that the starter had
>>>just come out of it's locked up position and it was explainable.
>>>
>>>So, Jeep won't start. Turn ignition, and get click, power, wipers, and
>>>an electical click at the starter. The starter is just not turning.
>>>Any suggestions? Thanks for your ideas.
>>>
>>>
>>>

You can try jumping the relay, but if it doesn't work, that still leaves
two possible bad connection points. I would try that first because it
is easiest, then I would try putting the booster to the power bolt right
on the starter. This eliminates all the positive cables and relay.

Then you can also put the other booster cable from the battery negative
to the starter case just to eliminate the ground path as an issue.

If still no start, the starter is a dud. That happens more time than
you would think. I now spin them up before putting them in just to be
sure.

Are you sure the relay only has 3 wires? Like I mentioned, most I have
seen have more than that with the two green wires easily mixed up and
put on the wrong posts so the keyswitch has no effect.

If the keyswitch makes things go click when turned to run, the switch is
working. If it doesn't then that short circuit you mentioned happening
likely took out the fuse link wire. This is a soft fat wire about 8"
long that attaches to the starter relay with a fat rubber tube crimp
connector where it connects to the wiring harness. Auto stores sell
replacements in the 'help' brand of parts.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

"Lawson[rem0ve]news" wrote:
>
> The engine is a 4.0 Liter. There was no shim that I noticed before. Just
> replaced the starter, but will try to spin up.
>
> To spin up. You say from battery positive to ignition connection
> (starter power bolt) on the solenoid.
>
> Can I just jump the connection at the solenoid? The solenoid has three
> connections. The positive one from the battery, the wire that runs to
> the ignition, and a wire from the solenoid to the starter. Can I just
> connect the two terminals at the solenoid, the battery positive, and the
> ignition? What does it mean if it does or doesn't' spin up?
>
> Thanks for your help on this. My wife has a jeep book that does suggest
> the ignition. Someone mentioned that the ignition would not be the
> answer, but I am running out of other ideas! If I can jump the
> connection and get the starter to turn, does that mean bad ignition switch?
>
> I'm losing my mind today. Currently fighting printer problems that I
> have had for 3 days. Between that and the Jeep, I am quite fed up.
>
> Again, we appreciate the help.
>
> Lawson
>
> Mike Romain wrote:
>
> >Bad connection still....
> >
> >As I mentioned before, you can put a booster cable onto the starter
> >power bolt and touch it to the battery positive. If the starter is
> >good, it will spin up.
> >
> >Is that some type of starter that needs a shim? What engine is it?
> >
> >Mike
> >86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> >88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> >
> >
> >"Lawson[rem0ve]news" wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Ok, Thanks for all the suggestions.... but still same problem.
> >>
> >>1. Lights on tried to start, lights remained consistently bright the
> >>whole time.
> >>2. Cleaned ground wires from battery to body and engine block.
> >>3. All wires look solid, no burns or weak spots.
> >>4. Held ignition in start position for about 10-15 seconds and felt for
> >>hot wires. Everything cool.
> >>5. Tried to start the vehicle multiple times, 10 or so, and felt wires
> >>looking for hot wires. Everything cool
> >>6. Tried to start while wiggling the battery terminal wires. All
> >>terminal wires appear firmly planted in end.
> >>
> >>Have not replaced the ignition?
> >>
> >>Am going to roll the engine by pushing in 2nd gear, just to advance the
> >>engine and make sure nothing locked up? I don't suspect this to be a
> >>problem, but maybe something is jammed. Tried to bounce the car while in
> >>gear yesterday while in gear to jar the starter, etc. No luck.
> >>
> >>The power seems to get to the starter, there is a sound like hitting the
> >>block with a small hammer. Sounds like the starter is engaging, but
> >>hitting an object that won't give. The sound is not an electrical click,
> >>but an engaging sound like the starter hitting the flywheel but going no
> >>where. Still looking for any more suggestions. Rolling the car in gear
> >>is next, followed by replacing the ignition.
> >>
> >>Is there anyway to jump the car at the solenoid? If I can jump at the
> >>solenoid, then is it the ignition?
> >>
> >>Thanks.
> >>
> >>Lawson
> >>
> >>Lawson[rem0ve]news wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>I don't know if anyone has had this problem but, here is the situation.
> >>>
> >>>My wife's 93 YJ would not start one morning. No extreme weather, no
> >>>symptoms of slow start or anything. The Jeep would make a click noise
> >>>at the starter. The starter was trying to engage, but would never
> >>>spin. After trying to wack the starter with a mallot to break it
> >>>loose, my thought was to replace the starter. This did not fix the
> >>>problem. Same symptom as before.
> >>>
> >>>Next is was the starter relay to be replaced. Once again, no solution.
> >>>I swapped an Optima battery into the Jeep thinking that it might be
> >>>that the battery didn't have enough juice. That did not work either.
> >>>At this point, I am on the internet trying to find a solution???
> >>>
> >>>I have looked for loose wiring, but all seems fine. The ground wire
> >>>from the battery goes to the Jeep body, and another from the battery
> >>>goes to the engine block. Both connections and wiring look sound. All
> >>>the connections at the starter are good.
> >>>
> >>>The only clue I have is that while my wife was undoing the top nut on
> >>>the starter, she caused something to cross, and the jeep turned
> >>>over??? I had her disconnect the battery, and then press on. This
> >>>happened with the original starter. I assumed that the starter had
> >>>just come out of it's locked up position and it was explainable.
> >>>
> >>>So, Jeep won't start. Turn ignition, and get click, power, wipers, and
> >>>an electical click at the starter. The starter is just not turning.
> >>>Any suggestions? Thanks for your ideas.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>