Tire siping effect on handling

You seemed convinced to do it - just do it. Why ask questions and argue
about.

Personally, if I want my tires siped, I buy them as designed that way.


"GRL" > wrote in message
...
> Never said it did. That's what my question arises from; the lack of
> independent reports on dry road handling. Also, Hoosier is independent of
> the machine manufacturer as are a large percentage (maybe most, I'd have
> to look again) of the citations on the manufacturer's web site. No axe to
> grind.
>
> Further, BMW hypes how good their cars are on their web site. According to
> you that is of no value. Self-serving. OK, let's say that they cite
> favorable reviews in the motoring press. That's no good either since these
> books live and die by ad revenue. They need BMW ads. Who's left? Consumer
> Reports. Fine, but they don't test everything.
>
> Two respondents claimed any personal experience. One's opinion I discount
> immediately as his claim of no benefit on snow flies in the face of the
> third party test reports linked to by the manufacturer's web site, common
> sense and the fact the major snow tire manufacturers' sipe their tires
> from the factory because it works on snow/ice. So far (limited sample set
> for sure) no one says it hurts dry handling and that's my only concern. I
> will have it done on the set of all-seasons I'm buying now as I live in
> the snow belt and the benefit under snow pack conditions is appreciable.
> If I get the better tread wear and wet traction/braking, so much the
> better. Of course since I will never have the tires un-siped, I will be in
> no position to judge how much better (or worse) the traction.
>
> The fact that the people who build/sell the machines give you links to
> separate entities who have tried their technology and report favorably on
> it is completely normal and a service to the potential buyer. What do you
> propose they do to convince the public of the effectiveness of their
> product, anyway?
>
> - GRL
>
>
> "Bradburn Fentress" > wrote in message
> ...
>>A reference to a website whose sole purpose is to manufacture sell siping
>>machines and then sell them to tire stores? That's about as good as
>>providing a Scientology URL in order to prove that body thetans walk the
>>earth.
>>
>> At least two of the 3 respondents to this have talked about personal
>> experience. I have used siped tires for years and they are decidedly no
>> better on dry roads than the same tire without sipes. But they are quite
>> effective on ice, given the correct tire compound to begin with.
>>
>> As far as your Hoosier Tire cite goes: how exactly does their opinion of
>> the effectiveness of siping on dirt race tracks......apply to dry
>> pavement?
>>
>>
>>
>> "GRL" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Looks like we're getting a bunch of knee-jerk "it can't work" reaction.
>>> Watch the videos and read the Hoosier Tire piece before you dismiss
>>> this.
>>>
>>> Again, I want 1st hand experience from people who have done it and have
>>> the basis to give a dry handling opinion.
>>>
>>> Siping unambiguously DOES work for improving snow and wet braking and
>>> traction. If you look at the best snow tires, like Bridgestone Blizaaks,
>>> they come siped from the factory. My Hankook snow tires did, too. It
>>> works on snow. My question is exclusively about the impact on dry
>>> handling.
>>>
>>> http://www.sipers.com/sipers/press.asp#
>>>
>>> GRL wrote:
>>>
>>>> Has anyone tried siping of their summer tires? (This is where very
>>>> narrow cuts are made in a tire tread to aid in wet and snow traction.
>>>> Big positive impact on stopping distances, too.Supposedly improves tire
>>>> wear, too, due to facilitating tread cooling.)
>>>>
>>>> I'm about to buy a new set of tires and I'm tempted to have this done
>>>> ($10 a tire), but am not really sure of the impact it would have on dry
>>>> road handling. I can see how breaking up the tire tread blocks with
>>>> sipes might have a negative impact on handling in turns, but am unable
>>>> to find any comments on the web or news groups.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

You are right that I would like to do this as it makes sense for someone
living in the snow below, like me. There are plenty of citations on the
manufacturer's web site attesting to that. I could find no information, one
way or the other, about the effect on dry road lateral acceleration
(handling). That's my sole concern about doing this. Not trying to
argumentative, trying to learn something from someone with 1st hand
experience.

- GRL


"ppp-man" > wrote in message
news:lgyTd.4112$_G.1630@clgrps12...
> You seemed convinced to do it - just do it. Why ask questions and argue
> about.
>
> Personally, if I want my tires siped, I buy them as designed that way.
>
>
> "GRL" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Never said it did. That's what my question arises from; the lack of
>> independent reports on dry road handling. Also, Hoosier is independent of
>> the machine manufacturer as are a large percentage (maybe most, I'd have
>> to look again) of the citations on the manufacturer's web site. No axe to
>> grind.
>>
>> Further, BMW hypes how good their cars are on their web site. According
>> to you that is of no value. Self-serving. OK, let's say that they cite
>> favorable reviews in the motoring press. That's no good either since
>> these books live and die by ad revenue. They need BMW ads. Who's left?
>> Consumer Reports. Fine, but they don't test everything.
>>
>> Two respondents claimed any personal experience. One's opinion I discount
>> immediately as his claim of no benefit on snow flies in the face of the
>> third party test reports linked to by the manufacturer's web site, common
>> sense and the fact the major snow tire manufacturers' sipe their tires
>> from the factory because it works on snow/ice. So far (limited sample set
>> for sure) no one says it hurts dry handling and that's my only concern. I
>> will have it done on the set of all-seasons I'm buying now as I live in
>> the snow belt and the benefit under snow pack conditions is appreciable.
>> If I get the better tread wear and wet traction/braking, so much the
>> better. Of course since I will never have the tires un-siped, I will be
>> in no position to judge how much better (or worse) the traction.
>>
>> The fact that the people who build/sell the machines give you links to
>> separate entities who have tried their technology and report favorably on
>> it is completely normal and a service to the potential buyer. What do you
>> propose they do to convince the public of the effectiveness of their
>> product, anyway?
>>
>> - GRL
>>
>>
>> "Bradburn Fentress" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>A reference to a website whose sole purpose is to manufacture sell siping
>>>machines and then sell them to tire stores? That's about as good as
>>>providing a Scientology URL in order to prove that body thetans walk the
>>>earth.
>>>
>>> At least two of the 3 respondents to this have talked about personal
>>> experience. I have used siped tires for years and they are decidedly no
>>> better on dry roads than the same tire without sipes. But they are quite
>>> effective on ice, given the correct tire compound to begin with.
>>>
>>> As far as your Hoosier Tire cite goes: how exactly does their opinion of
>>> the effectiveness of siping on dirt race tracks......apply to dry
>>> pavement?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "GRL" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Looks like we're getting a bunch of knee-jerk "it can't work" reaction.
>>>> Watch the videos and read the Hoosier Tire piece before you dismiss
>>>> this.
>>>>
>>>> Again, I want 1st hand experience from people who have done it and have
>>>> the basis to give a dry handling opinion.
>>>>
>>>> Siping unambiguously DOES work for improving snow and wet braking and
>>>> traction. If you look at the best snow tires, like Bridgestone
>>>> Blizaaks, they come siped from the factory. My Hankook snow tires did,
>>>> too. It works on snow. My question is exclusively about the impact on
>>>> dry handling.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.sipers.com/sipers/press.asp#
>>>>
>>>> GRL wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone tried siping of their summer tires? (This is where very
>>>>> narrow cuts are made in a tire tread to aid in wet and snow traction.
>>>>> Big positive impact on stopping distances, too.Supposedly improves
>>>>> tire wear, too, due to facilitating tread cooling.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm about to buy a new set of tires and I'm tempted to have this done
>>>>> ($10 a tire), but am not really sure of the impact it would have on
>>>>> dry road handling. I can see how breaking up the tire tread blocks
>>>>> with sipes might have a negative impact on handling in turns, but am
>>>>> unable to find any comments on the web or news groups.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

"GRL" > wrote in message
...
> You are right that I would like to do this as it makes sense for someone
> living in the snow below, like me. There are plenty of citations on the
> manufacturer's web site attesting to that. I could find no information,
one
> way or the other, about the effect on dry road lateral acceleration
> (handling). That's my sole concern about doing this. Not trying to
> argumentative, trying to learn something from someone with 1st hand
> experience.

Regardigng your last sentance -- head over to webster.com and look up irony.


Anyway if you don't think that siping hurts dry road performance, have a
look at any high performance tire. Do you see any sipes? Nope. Blocks of
solid rubber.

Look at an all season tire. Some sipes. A compromise.

Now look at a snow tire. Lots of sipes. Hmmm.

Tryint to take an all season compound and make it into a snow tire won't
work. No performance tires have sipes. Hmm..

-Russ.