2006 MX-5 price gouging

Craig Wagner wrote:
> pws > wrote:
>
>
>>The RX-8 and Mini are not even convertibles
>
>
> http://www.seriouswheels.com/mno/Min...y-1024x768.htm
>

I stand corrected, not for the first or last time. I didn't know that
they had chopped the roof on the mini yet, didn't it start out with no
convertible option?

Pat

pws > writes:

> Craig Wagner wrote:
> > pws > wrote:
> >
> >>The RX-8 and Mini are not even convertibles
> > http://www.seriouswheels.com/mno/Min...y-1024x768.htm
> >
>
> I stand corrected, not for the first or last time. I didn't know that
> they had chopped the roof on the mini yet, didn't it start out with no
> convertible option?
>
> Pat

I think the drop top came out about a year after the Cooper S, so yes
initially it was just the hard top. I think it looks out of place as a
convertible.

--
Scott Streeter

http://www.wpi.edu/~ss/

In article >, pws > wrote:
>Dave wrote:
>
>>
>> At the risk of being repititiously redundant (and repeating
>> myself), the NA had no competition, thus the markups. The NC is
>> going against: Solstice, S2000, Z4, Boxster (okay, some are
>> obviously much higher $$), Mustang, RX8, Mini, etc, etc. Frankly,
>> I'd say you'd have to be mad to pay list, nevermind more.
>
>You mentioned the higher dollars yourself, but do you really think that
>the BMW Z4 and Porsche Boxster are in any real competition with a car
>that costs half as much or less? The RX-8 and Mini are not even
>convertibles, which makes them very poor competition for the miata if
>one is looking for a drop-top. As far as the Mustang, doesn't it still
>have seating for four? That helps to make it a very different animal
>than a 2-seat roadster.
>
> From the list above, only the Solstice and the S2000 make any sense to
>me as being in market competition against the miata.


The Solstice is the obvious 100% competitor. The S2000 a bit less
so, but if one starts with a $25K Grand Touring and talks about
potential markup, it moves into S2000 territory (which can be
bought for $30K). We agree on those.

Yes, I admit the Z4 and Boxster are stretches. More likely, I'd
compare a new, ADM'd NC, and compare it to a used Boxster. I'd
find the Miata lacking.

Honestly, I believe the main competition, other than the Solstice,
is an *older* Miata. If I have the choice of a new MS Miata for
$19K-20K (yes, they are reportedly marked down this low) vs an
ADM'd NC, I wouldn't think twice. Hands down, I'd favor the
Mazdaspeed. Or an even cheaper base Miata.

As to the non-convertibles, well to a lot of people it isn't a
valid comparison. But to me, and I bet a lot others, it
certainly is. My thought process when buying was: "I want a fun
car that is great handling and a super deal". My list stretched
from used Miatas to new M3's. The RX-8 would absolutely be on my
short list, as would a Mini. Even a Corvette!

PS, the Mini is available as a convertible.

> Before visiting a car dealership, everyone MUST read this article at
> Edmunds:
>
> http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying...2/article.html
>
> Prepare to be entertained, amazed, and appalled.
>

Entertained, amazed, and appalled... Pretty well sums it up! Thanks for
the link.

My brother in law sold cars for 20+ years. One day he said "I can't do
it anymore". I understand why, but not why it took so long.

--
David
dja--dot--mail--at--comcast--dot--net

Dave wrote:

> The Solstice is the obvious 100% competitor. The S2000 a bit less
> so, but if one starts with a $25K Grand Touring and talks about
> potential markup, it moves into S2000 territory (which can be
> bought for $30K). We agree on those.

yes

> Yes, I admit the Z4 and Boxster are stretches. More likely, I'd
> compare a new, ADM'd NC, and compare it to a used Boxster. I'd
> find the Miata lacking.

I am not a Boxster fan, though I admit that this is based on looks alone
since I have never driven one. I do know that repairs and parts tend to
be incredibly expensive on Porsches and BMW's, so that, along with the
initial price has always kept them out of my price option range anyway.

> Honestly, I believe the main competition, other than the Solstice,
> is an *older* Miata. If I have the choice of a new MS Miata for
> $19K-20K (yes, they are reportedly marked down this low) vs an
> ADM'd NC, I wouldn't think twice. Hands down, I'd favor the
> Mazdaspeed. Or an even cheaper base Miata.

No question there, though I went considerably older and bought a 1991
model. Of course, with equal drivers it will outperform both the
Mazdaspeed and the NC, (assuming the new cars are stock), both in
handling and power, but it won't be quite as refined while doing so.


> As to the non-convertibles, well to a lot of people it isn't a
> valid comparison. But to me, and I bet a lot others, it
> certainly is. My thought process when buying was: "I want a fun
> car that is great handling and a super deal". My list stretched
> from used Miatas to new M3's. The RX-8 would absolutely be on my
> short list, as would a Mini. Even a Corvette!

I don't know if I would consider the Boxster and BMW Z4 super deals, but
if we are talking about large amounts of money to spend on fun cars, I
would really like a BMW M5 as my OTM. The Corvette is certainly up there
as well, and even stands alone as the single American car that I would
buy. Unfortunately, the M5, Corvette and the new miata are out of my
price range for the time being. In fact, every new car made is currently
out of my price range. :-(

> PS, the Mini is available as a convertible.

Yes, I saw the picture that Craig posted a link to. Just like the RX-8,
I still haven't decided if I like how they look yet, convertible or not.

Pat

pws > wrote:

>I am not a Boxster fan, though I admit that this is based on looks alone
>since I have never driven one. I do know that repairs and parts tend to
>be incredibly expensive on Porsches and BMW's, so that, along with the
>initial price has always kept them out of my price option range anyway.

A friend at work has a Boxster. She's selling it. She says it is in the shop too
often and every time it goes in they say "we've never seen one do that before"
and then charge her $1400.

When I was looking at convertibles four years ago I drove a used Boxster (a new
one was out of reach). I wasn't all that impressed. I bought a new Miata for
less money than the used Boxster and don't have the horrendous repair bills.

--
Craig Wagner, craig.wagner(at)comcast.net
Portland, OR

"Don't ban high-performance vehicles, ban low-performance drivers!"

How about you can only get the cloth top with the Grand Touring. What's up
with that?


"Lanny Chambers" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> DJA > wrote:
>
>> I remember the original "Additional Dealer Markup" issues with the 1st
>> gen Miata. Since the '06 will be an all new car, does anyone expect a
>> repeat of this practice?
>
> Of course, and it will last as long as buyers are willing to pay extra.
> It will stop as each dealer runs out of lot space and/or can't afford
> the floorplan for its unsold cars.
>
>>Do current buyers still pay a premium, or at
>> least something close to MSRP?
>
> They're giving away Miatas. Shop carefully, and you can buy a new
> Mazdaspeed Miata for $20k, maybe less.
>
> What I don't like (as if I were in the market, which I'm not) are the
> package bundles for the U.S. market. To get LSD, you have to buy a
> heavier Sport or Grand Touring model, then add the Suspension package to
> it. I'd want LSD and cruise control with a 5-speed and 16" wheels, or at
> least be able to add the Suspension package to a base car, but Mazda
> won't sell me that. "Sport," BTW, means foglights and other foofaraw,
> not performance.
>
> ---
> Lanny Chambers
> '94C, St. Louis
> http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html

In article >,
"Andy Chang" <bikejog@@_@@SPAMFREE_FREEhot_baby_mail> wrote:

> How about you can only get the cloth top with the Grand Touring. What's up
> with that?

You can always install an aftermarket cloth top, once the aftermarket
puts one out. Same with leather seatcovers, and probably cruise control.
But the Torsen may be a problem, at least until they start appearing in
junkyards.

At this point, if I just couldn't live without an NC, I guess I'd try to
find an MX-5 model to get the A/C, and add the missing cruise control
and LSD myself. $2500 extra is just too much to pay, and I don't want
the other stuff included in the Sport model with suspension package.

That's assuming I'd be able to find anything but a Sport or GT, which
aren't good values IMHO. The cheaper models may be scarce.

---
Lanny Chambers
'94C, St. Louis
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 00:28:01 GMT, Lanny Chambers
> wrote:

>In article >,
> "Andy Chang" <bikejog@@_@@SPAMFREE_FREEhot_baby_mail> wrote:
>
>> How about you can only get the cloth top with the Grand Touring. What's up
>> with that?
>
>You can always install an aftermarket cloth top, once the aftermarket
>puts one out. Same with leather seatcovers, and probably cruise control.
>But the Torsen may be a problem, at least until they start appearing in
>junkyards.
>
>At this point, if I just couldn't live without an NC, I guess I'd try to
>find an MX-5 model to get the A/C, and add the missing cruise control
>and LSD myself. $2500 extra is just too much to pay, and I don't want
>the other stuff included in the Sport model with suspension package.
>
>That's assuming I'd be able to find anything but a Sport or GT, which
>aren't good values IMHO. The cheaper models may be scarce.
>
>---
>Lanny Chambers
>'94C, St. Louis
>http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html

I want a club spec marble white. I like a 5spd and cloth seats. No a/c
is an added bonus!

Now if really goes for the $20,995 I won't hold off trading my 02.

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In article >, Tom > wrote:

>I want a club spec marble white. I like a 5spd and cloth seats. No a/c
>is an added bonus!
>
>Now if really goes for the $20,995 I won't hold off trading my 02.

Why wouldn't it? Remember the NB Club Spec models? I guess some
people jumped at 'em when they came out at list. And by the end
of the run, they almost couldn't give them away. Lots of people
talk about wanting a no-frills model, but few pull the trigger.

If you can wait 6 mths to a year, *if* you can find one (I bet
they make very few), I think you'll get one for many $K under.