13 deaths cheaper than 0 deaths

Summary:
Toyota is forced to pay a fine of 1.2 billion dollars for 0 deaths.
GM pays 35 million dollars for 13 deaths.

Let's see now... Zero deaths results in a fine 34-times greater than the
one for 13 deaths.

Something is very, very wrong here...


--
Tegger

On Sun, 18 May 2014 23:30:53 +0000 (UTC), Tegger >
wrote:

>Summary:
>Toyota is forced to pay a fine of 1.2 billion dollars for 0 deaths.
>GM pays 35 million dollars for 13 deaths.
>
>Let's see now... Zero deaths results in a fine 34-times greater than the
>one for 13 deaths.
>
>Something is very, very wrong here...

GM reported these problems to NHTSA quite a few years ago and NHTSA
didn't see a problem. Since the liability is with the OLD GM most of
what you see playing out now is just theatre for the politicians to
grandstand and get their ugly faces on TV. If the gvt presses this
they will have to deal with the question of why NHTSA, not just GM,
didn't see a reason to do a recall.

And there were deaths in the Toyota's, the most notable being the cop
on vacation with his family who called 911 while the car was racing
out of control due to the poorly designed gas pedal catching on a
floor mat. He didn't live thru the crash.

On Sun, 18 May 2014 18:31:42 -0700, Ashton Crusher >
wrote:

>On Sun, 18 May 2014 23:30:53 +0000 (UTC), Tegger >
>wrote:
>
>>Summary:
>>Toyota is forced to pay a fine of 1.2 billion dollars for 0 deaths.
>>GM pays 35 million dollars for 13 deaths.
>>
>>Let's see now... Zero deaths results in a fine 34-times greater than the
>>one for 13 deaths.
>>
>>Something is very, very wrong here...
>
>GM reported these problems to NHTSA quite a few years ago and NHTSA
>didn't see a problem. Since the liability is with the OLD GM most of
>what you see playing out now is just theatre for the politicians to
>grandstand and get their ugly faces on TV. If the gvt presses this
>they will have to deal with the question of why NHTSA, not just GM,
>didn't see a reason to do a recall.
>
>And there were deaths in the Toyota's, the most notable being the cop
>on vacation with his family who called 911 while the car was racing
>out of control due to the poorly designed gas pedal catching on a
>floor mat. He didn't live thru the crash.

Cop??

Too dumb to switch off the ignition.. shift to neutral position..
driver ed ????
He had time to call 911 while driving out of
control.

Anything getting out of control.. first try switching it off.

Don't they teach anyone to think anymore..

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 5/19/14, 8:07 AM, Bob Flumere wrote:
> On Sun, 18 May 2014 18:31:42 -0700, Ashton Crusher >
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 18 May 2014 23:30:53 +0000 (UTC), Tegger >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Summary:
>>> Toyota is forced to pay a fine of 1.2 billion dollars for 0 deaths.
>>> GM pays 35 million dollars for 13 deaths.
>>>
>>> Let's see now... Zero deaths results in a fine 34-times greater than the
>>> one for 13 deaths.
>>>
>>> Something is very, very wrong here...
>>
>> GM reported these problems to NHTSA quite a few years ago and NHTSA
>> didn't see a problem. Since the liability is with the OLD GM most of
>> what you see playing out now is just theatre for the politicians to
>> grandstand and get their ugly faces on TV. If the gvt presses this
>> they will have to deal with the question of why NHTSA, not just GM,
>> didn't see a reason to do a recall.
>>
>> And there were deaths in the Toyota's, the most notable being the cop
>> on vacation with his family who called 911 while the car was racing
>> out of control due to the poorly designed gas pedal catching on a
>> floor mat. He didn't live thru the crash.
>
> Cop??
>
> Too dumb to switch off the ignition.. shift to neutral position..
> driver ed ????
> He had time to call 911 while driving out of
> control.
>
> Anything getting out of control.. first try switching it off.
>
> Don't they teach anyone to think anymore..
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>

It was a dealer loaner car with push-button on/off switch that needs
to be held down for several seconds to stop engine. They were
unfamiliar with it.

On 2014-05-19, Retired > wrote:
> On 5/19/14, 8:07 AM, Bob Flumere wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 May 2014 18:31:42 -0700, Ashton Crusher >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 18 May 2014 23:30:53 +0000 (UTC), Tegger >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Summary:
>>>> Toyota is forced to pay a fine of 1.2 billion dollars for 0 deaths.
>>>> GM pays 35 million dollars for 13 deaths.
>>>>
>>>> Let's see now... Zero deaths results in a fine 34-times greater than the
>>>> one for 13 deaths.
>>>>
>>>> Something is very, very wrong here...
>>>
>>> GM reported these problems to NHTSA quite a few years ago and NHTSA
>>> didn't see a problem. Since the liability is with the OLD GM most of
>>> what you see playing out now is just theatre for the politicians to
>>> grandstand and get their ugly faces on TV. If the gvt presses this
>>> they will have to deal with the question of why NHTSA, not just GM,
>>> didn't see a reason to do a recall.
>>>
>>> And there were deaths in the Toyota's, the most notable being the cop
>>> on vacation with his family who called 911 while the car was racing
>>> out of control due to the poorly designed gas pedal catching on a
>>> floor mat. He didn't live thru the crash.
>>
>> Cop??
>>
>> Too dumb to switch off the ignition.. shift to neutral position..
>> driver ed ????
>> He had time to call 911 while driving out of
>> control.
>>
>> Anything getting out of control.. first try switching it off.
>>
>> Don't they teach anyone to think anymore..
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
>
> It was a dealer loaner car with push-button on/off switch that needs
> to be held down for several seconds to stop engine. They were
> unfamiliar with it.

That's the convention with 'off' buttons. As on many cell phones and
other devices.

"Brent" wrote:

> > It was a dealer loaner car with push-button on/off switch that needs
> > to be held down for several seconds to stop engine. They were
> > unfamiliar with it.
>
> That's the convention with 'off' buttons. As on many cell phones and
> other devices.

Don't expect that to work on some Chrysler stuff made in the last few years.
Push the button all you want... the dash just says "Vehicle not in Park", and
refuses to turn the engine off, even if you're stopped with the parking brake on.
What next, the car won't let you swerve to miss that cow in the road because
a sharp maneuver might "destabilize" the car? Ahhhhh, modern technology!

Ashton Crusher > wrote in
:


> And there were deaths in the Toyota's, the most notable being the cop
> on vacation with his family who called 911 while the car was racing
> out of control due to the poorly designed gas pedal catching on a
> floor mat.



The mats had been installed by the dealer and were the incorrect ones for
that car, being too long.

In addition, the dealer had not bothered to secure the mats using the hooks
that Toyota had designed into both the car and the mats.

This meant that the mats had a tendency to bunch-up under the gas pedal.

That same vehicle had been loaned out to another customer the day prior to
the incident you mention. He, too, had the mats bunch-up under the gas
pedal and make the engine rev very high.

Luckily, this other customer had the presence of mind to simply step on the
brake until the car stopped. Then he used the toe of his shoe to pop the
gas pedal up from the mat, at which point the engine returned to its normal
idle.

This other customer pulled the mats back into position using his feet and
hands, and drove the rest of the day without incident.

When he returned the car to the dealer, he mentioned to the Service Advisor
what had happened with the mats bunching-up and how that had caused the gas
pedal to stick down. The Service Advisor never bothered to pass this
information on to anyone, so the problem was never corrected.

And the next day, the incident you refer to happened.

Toyota had ZERO to do with that incident. GM had 100% to do with their 13
deaths.



--
Tegger

Bob Flumere > wrote in
:

..
>
> Cop??
>
> Too dumb to switch off the ignition.. shift to neutral position..
> driver ed ????



The cop was pulsing the brake pedal. This caused the brakes to overheat and
lose their effectiveness. I find it very odd that he would do that,
considering the amount of driving training cops receive. I can only
conclude that he wasn't very smart.

The customer the previous day (who had experienced the exact same problem)
had the presence of mind to simply keep his foot on the brake until the car
stopped. See my other post for more detials on the incident.



--
Tegger

On Monday, May 19, 2014 6:36:18 PM UTC-4, Tegger wrote:
> Ashton Crusher <> wrote in
>
> :
>
>
>
>
>
> > And there were deaths in the Toyota's, the most notable being the cop
>
> > on vacation with his family who called 911 while the car was racing
>
> > out of control due to the poorly designed gas pedal catching on a
>
> > floor mat.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The mats had been installed by the dealer and were the incorrect ones for
>
> that car, being too long.
>
>
>
> In addition, the dealer had not bothered to secure the mats using the hooks
>
> that Toyota had designed into both the car and the mats.
>
>
>
> This meant that the mats had a tendency to bunch-up under the gas pedal.
>
>
>
> That same vehicle had been loaned out to another customer the day prior to
>
> the incident you mention. He, too, had the mats bunch-up under the gas
>
> pedal and make the engine rev very high.
>
>
>
> Luckily, this other customer had the presence of mind to simply step on the
>
> brake until the car stopped. Then he used the toe of his shoe to pop the
>
> gas pedal up from the mat, at which point the engine returned to its normal
>
> idle.
>
>
>
> This other customer pulled the mats back into position using his feet and
>
> hands, and drove the rest of the day without incident.
>
>
>
> When he returned the car to the dealer, he mentioned to the Service Advisor
>
> what had happened with the mats bunching-up and how that had caused the gas
>
> pedal to stick down. The Service Advisor never bothered to pass this
>
> information on to anyone, so the problem was never corrected.
>
>
>
> And the next day, the incident you refer to happened.
>
>
>
> Toyota had ZERO to do with that incident. GM had 100% to do with their 13
>
> deaths.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Tegger


Department of Justice announced a deferred prosecution agreement with TOYOTA under which the company admits that it misled U.S. consumers by concealing and making deceptive statements about two safety issues affecting its vehicles, each of which caused a type of unintended acceleration.


http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2014/March/14-ag-286.html

" > wrote in
:


>
>
> Department of Justice announced a deferred prosecution agreement with
> TOYOTA under which the company admits that it misled U.S. consumers by
> concealing and making deceptive statements about two safety issues
> affecting its vehicles, each of which caused a type of unintended
> acceleration.
>
>
> http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2014/March/14-ag-286.html
>



That's all politics. There is not one single incident of "unintended
acceleration" that was due to any sort of defect in any Toyota vehicle.

Toyota had to grovel and pay whatever the government wanted in order to
make them go away. That's how the US legal system works: If you don't
knuckle under, the prosecution will make your life a living hell.

--
Tegger