Bimmer auto trans. still bummers?

On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 08:48:11 -0800 (PST), kpb >
wrote:

>Not me, as I have no experience with 323s at all.
>
>I was wondering if any new information came about since its been
>months since I've been here.
>
>I haven't heard anything about the 325i or 330i which I am STILL
>considering.
>
>So I might very well buy a BMW. Although I am off put by the
>defensiveness of some of the posters here.

We're not so much paranoid as impatient with your stupidity. *You*
seem to be the paranoid one. I mean, why post this again? Do you think
there's secretly a huge group of people with failed automatics who
only speak of them when you're not around and you hope to catch them
out? There's been no epidemic of failed autos since your last foray
here, no significant influx of new E46 owners, no change in the
status.
Instead, why not check somewhere else? Anywhere else? EVERYWHERE
else? The one thing people on the net like to do is complain, so even
the most cursory research should turn up reams of information if this
were a real issue. Or have the Gamma people initiated a cover-up?
Second, perhaps your methodology of checking ONE place over and
over again is typical since - according to you - you were all set to
buy an E46 3-series when you read ONE post from ONE - ahem, "other" -
PERSON saying that his transmission failed after blah years and
unsubstantiated maintenance driven who-knows-how poorly and you
decided that ONE instance was enough to write off the entire model run
and forestall your purchase.
The answer now is the same as befo if you're worried about the
devastating possibility that the auto trans *might* fail, DON'T BUY
ONE. You don't like this group? DON'T POST HERE.
But you might want to avoid walking as well. I saw someone last
week walking on crutches, turns out he'd broken his leg! I had no idea
legs were prone to these sort of failures, I find the situation
*completely* unacceptable, and I'm currently researching the
manufacturer or designer of legs to discuss this shoddy workmanship.
My own legs have given me no trouble so far (indeed, I've completed
several marathons with them) but the idea that they're breakable has
really put me off the entire product line.
I've read that in Scandinavia they're working on replacement parts
made from rather nice wooden blocks. You appear to be using their
"head" replacement unit - how did you find the service?
epbrown
--
How can you know where I'm at if you haven't been where I been?
Can you see where I'm coming from? "How I Could Just Kill A Man" Cypress Hill

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> kpb > wrote:
>>A while back someone posted about the 2000 323i auto transmission
>>being junk. Apparently this is well known.

Some BMW's sold in the US for some reason have inferior and unreliable US
boxes.

>
> All automatic transmissions are junk. Why would someone spend all the
> money for a performance car and then put an automatic transmission in it?
> Learn to shift and you'll be a lot happier.

Driving around town - I don't think so.

Being very tall I drive 7 series.

I had two manuals in the 1980's* and they were great, however manuals were
hardly made after 1988 (a few in the 735iL) and seemingly not at all since
~1994, although you can still get them in 6 series.

The three more recent ones have had respectively

4 speed auto
5 speed switchable
5 speed steptronic

The last is comparable with a manual, although I still drive it in auto, but
it is clever and for instance holds gear for a bit after overtaking or
similar. Even if I didn't have to drive a lot in traffic, I doubt I would
go back to manual, and as thee next one I get will probably be a diesel, the
6 speed steptronic is almost essential.

> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

* before that I had two manual Rover 3500SD1's and a Triumph 2.5TC with
overdrive, so I liked a manual box. OTOH the choice between the five speed
manual (with overdriven 5th) and [crap] three speed GM auto in the 3500SD1
was a no brainer!

R. Mark Clayton > wrote:
>5 speed steptronic
>
>The last is comparable with a manual, although I still drive it in auto, but
>it is clever and for instance holds gear for a bit after overtaking or
>similar. Even if I didn't have to drive a lot in traffic, I doubt I would
>go back to manual, and as thee next one I get will probably be a diesel, the
>6 speed steptronic is almost essential.

See, I find the Steptronic very annoying. I _cannot_ get a smooth start
off the line with the Steptronic or SMG no matter how carefully I do it.
In some ways it feels like it has the worst of both worlds.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> R. Mark Clayton > wrote:
>>5 speed steptronic
>>
>>The last is comparable with a manual, although I still drive it in auto,
>>but
>>it is clever and for instance holds gear for a bit after overtaking or
>>similar. Even if I didn't have to drive a lot in traffic, I doubt I would
>>go back to manual, and as thee next one I get will probably be a diesel,
>>the
>>6 speed steptronic is almost essential.
>
> See, I find the Steptronic very annoying. I _cannot_ get a smooth start
> off the line with the Steptronic or SMG no matter how carefully I do it.
> In some ways it feels like it has the worst of both worlds.

Then you have a fault. No problem with mine.

There were teething problems with early ZF six speeds - look up.

> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

R. Mark Clayton > wrote:
>"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
>> R. Mark Clayton > wrote:
>>>5 speed steptronic
>>>
>>>The last is comparable with a manual, although I still drive it in auto,
>>>but
>>>it is clever and for instance holds gear for a bit after overtaking or
>>>similar. Even if I didn't have to drive a lot in traffic, I doubt I would
>>>go back to manual, and as thee next one I get will probably be a diesel,
>>>the
>>>6 speed steptronic is almost essential.
>>
>> See, I find the Steptronic very annoying. I _cannot_ get a smooth start
>> off the line with the Steptronic or SMG no matter how carefully I do it.
>> In some ways it feels like it has the worst of both worlds.
>
>Then you have a fault. No problem with mine.
>
>There were teething problems with early ZF six speeds - look up.

No, I have driven a bunch of the newer ones. I really wanted to like
it... it seems like a great trade-off, adding electronic complexity to
reduce mechanical complexity. But it just doesn't feel right to me.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

R. Mark Clayton incorrectly wrote:

> Some BMW's sold in the US for some reason have inferior and unreliable US
> boxes.

Ummm... not. They are made by GM - but GM in France, not the US and they
aren't a US design. And GM is noted for one thing - knowing how to make
automatic transmissions..

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> R. Mark Clayton > wrote:
>> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> R. Mark Clayton > wrote:
>>>> 5 speed steptronic
>>>>
>>>> The last is comparable with a manual, although I still drive it in auto,
>>>> but
>>>> it is clever and for instance holds gear for a bit after overtaking or
>>>> similar. Even if I didn't have to drive a lot in traffic, I doubt I would
>>>> go back to manual, and as thee next one I get will probably be a diesel,
>>>> the
>>>> 6 speed steptronic is almost essential.
>>> See, I find the Steptronic very annoying. I _cannot_ get a smooth start
>>> off the line with the Steptronic or SMG no matter how carefully I do it.
>>> In some ways it feels like it has the worst of both worlds.
>> Then you have a fault. No problem with mine.
>>
>> There were teething problems with early ZF six speeds - look up.
>
> No, I have driven a bunch of the newer ones. I really wanted to like
> it... it seems like a great trade-off, adding electronic complexity to
> reduce mechanical complexity. But it just doesn't feel right to me.
> --scott

You're confusing two different things.

SMG is a manual transmission that is controlled by hydraulics that are
controlled by electronics. The base transmission used in SMG I, II and
III is a standard BMW manual transmission. They use the same clutch as
the manual transmission. All that's different is a machine is moving
things around instead of you (and there are automatic modes - which
don't work really well..)

Steptronic is simply advanced electronic control of a standard automatic
transmission - complete with torque converters and multiple clutches.
It's a nice automatic.

BIG difference. Steptronic should be no harsher than any automatic on
takeoff. SMG - takes learning to drive smoothly - you still have to
modulate the throttle to make shifts and clutch engagements smooth.

BMW is introducing a dual-clutch SMG in the new E92/M3 - to catch up
with Audi and everyone else. This will not require the finesse that the
current SMG incarnation does to drive smoothly since it will be a
purpose built system - meant to be an automatic manual transmission.

On Mon, 04 Feb 2008 12:20:05 -0500, admin > wrote:

>BMW is introducing a dual-clutch SMG in the new E92/M3 - to catch up
>with Audi and everyone else. This will not require the finesse that the
>current SMG incarnation does to drive smoothly since it will be a
>purpose built system - meant to be an automatic manual transmission.

Paging Dave Plowman, paging Dave Plowman. Dave Plowman to the white
courtesy phone, please...
--
Dan.

In article <nv8pj.87$eD3.27@trndny05>,
Jack > wrote:
> I would concur with that conclusion that it takes about three automatic
> transmissions to last as long as one manual.

> Definiitely not the choice of people who intend to keep their cars for
> the duration.

How many clutches will that manual transmission have had and how many
hydraulic failures? And will the synchro on that manual still be perfect?

--
*A backward poet writes inverse.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article >,
Scott Dorsey > wrote:
> R. Mark Clayton > wrote:
> >5 speed steptronic
> >
> >The last is comparable with a manual, although I still drive it in
> >auto, but it is clever and for instance holds gear for a bit after
> >overtaking or similar. Even if I didn't have to drive a lot in
> >traffic, I doubt I would go back to manual, and as thee next one I get
> >will probably be a diesel, the 6 speed steptronic is almost essential.

> See, I find the Steptronic very annoying. I _cannot_ get a smooth start
> off the line with the Steptronic or SMG no matter how carefully I do it.
> In some ways it feels like it has the worst of both worlds. --scott

Eh? Steptronic is a conventional slush pump auto and uses the torque
convertor to start from rest in exactly the same way as any auto -
therefore with as smooth a start. SMG transmissions use a servo operated
dry clutch and at least some can be jerky.

--
*They call it PMS because Mad Cow Disease was already taken.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.