94 Civic: exhaust system replacement

Now that my muffler has broken off "Pipe B" and is dangling, it seems
that the time to do the exhaust has come 'round at last. I was told last
summer that my "Pipe B" was full of pinholes, but got this far.

I'd like to do the work myself to save a little, though really it's the
parts that are the major expense. Has anyone done this before? Any
pitfalls? I expect I could use a torch for heating stubborn parts, but
otherwise it looks pretty straightforward.

OEM parts cost: Pipe B kit, $132; muffler kit, $124--seems expensive. Is
an aftermarket alternative worth considering? It should last at least as
long as OEM, include all ancillary parts (as it appears the OEM kits
do), and not have fit problems (Pipe B in particular). I'm not
interested in "rice", just want a nice quiet car and not have to chase
after additional parts.

Will I need gasket compound? What kind? Also, the AutoZone repair guide
refers to a "tail pipe cutter" loaner--what for, and will I need it?

Thanks,

Abe

P.S. Had hoped I could do the oil pan gasket at the same time, but it's
the front half (Pipe A) that must be removed to get at that... grrr. I
guess once the back half is off, why NOT wrestle with rusted nuts on the
header?? :-(

Abeness wrote:
> Now that my muffler has broken off "Pipe B" and is dangling, it seems
> that the time to do the exhaust has come 'round at last. I was told last
> summer that my "Pipe B" was full of pinholes, but got this far.
>
> I'd like to do the work myself to save a little, though really it's the
> parts that are the major expense. Has anyone done this before? Any
> pitfalls? I expect I could use a torch for heating stubborn parts, but
> otherwise it looks pretty straightforward.

the pitfall is that if stuff breaks, you're going to have to replace
more than you bought. torching can be helpful, but beware of damaging
the car - obvious to some but not all from what i've seen.

some tips:
1. when wrenching the nuts on the pipes, soak parts in wd40 for a few
hours before working. obviously, only apply wd40 to a /cold/ exhaust.
2. use a 6-point socket.
3. use a 1/2" ratchet with a /long/ extension and use both hands to the
nut is loaded with pure torque, /not/ bending. if you use no extension
and one hand, the nut is loaded with end-on torque & sideways load.
this last can cause slippage & damage to the nut making subsequent
removal very difficult. again, using the long extension & two hands
ensure the nut gets torque only and it /should/ come off, even if it's
very stiff initially.

>
> OEM parts cost: Pipe B kit, $132; muffler kit, $124--seems expensive. Is
> an aftermarket alternative worth considering? It should last at least as
> long as OEM, include all ancillary parts (as it appears the OEM kits
> do), and not have fit problems (Pipe B in particular). I'm not
> interested in "rice", just want a nice quiet car and not have to chase
> after additional parts.

there's many online sources of oem standard parts. shop around.

>
> Will I need gasket compound? What kind? Also, the AutoZone repair guide
> refers to a "tail pipe cutter" loaner--what for, and will I need it?

no. none. no. not if you use oem & the oem gaskets.

>
> Thanks,
>
> Abe
>
> P.S. Had hoped I could do the oil pan gasket at the same time, but it's
> the front half (Pipe A) that must be removed to get at that... grrr. I
> guess once the back half is off, why NOT wrestle with rusted nuts on the
> header?? :-(

header nuts are less of a problem than you'd think. or at least, not
here in california. but you'll need the header gaskets...

jim beam > wrote in
:


>
> header nuts are less of a problem than you'd think. or at least, not
> here in california.


In an area with snow, exhaust manifold nuts are treacherous. There is an
excellent chance that at least one stud will break off inside the head.
Then you've got to remove the rad and A/C condenser in order to drill it
out, while taking excruciating care not to damage the threads in the soft
aluminum head. You can drill without removing the rad, but it's a lot more
awkward. Bitch of a job.

Some of the stud nuts will screw off normally, others will be frozen and
you'll end up winding the stud right out of the head, which is not itself a
problem.

Even soaking with penetrant does not necessarily do any good.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"Abeness" > wrote in message
...


>> OEM parts cost: Pipe B kit, $132; muffler kit, $124--seems expensive. Is
> an aftermarket alternative worth considering?

It is noteworthy that you get lifetime? replacements for the first OEM Honda
muffler kit you buy. You'd really have to have your Honda for a long ass
time to make this work for you but it sounds like a good allocation of
funds.

jim beam wrote:
> Abeness wrote:
>
>> Now that my muffler has broken off "Pipe B" and is dangling, it seems
>> that the time to do the exhaust has come 'round at last. I was told
>> last summer that my "Pipe B" was full of pinholes, but got this far.
>>
>> I'd like to do the work myself to save a little, though really it's
>> the parts that are the major expense. Has anyone done this before? Any
>> pitfalls? I expect I could use a torch for heating stubborn parts, but
>> otherwise it looks pretty straightforward.
>
>
> the pitfall is that if stuff breaks, you're going to have to replace
> more than you bought.

Yeah, I'm a little worried about that, especially given that I'll be
working right next to the cat, which would be an expensive thing to break.

> torching can be helpful, but beware of damaging
> the car - obvious to some but not all from what i've seen.

Good tip. I'm pretty careful, but I can imagine some funny sh*it. Thanks
for the others, too, particularly the *6*-point socket and wrench usage
reminder. Now, I had planned on spraying wd40 on hot exhaust, though,
and can't fathom why you'd suggest otherwise... <g>

> there's many online sources of oem standard parts. shop around.

I've found Majestic in RI to have good prices and decent service (and
they're relatively nearby), but SLHonda in CA has WAY better diagrams.
Any other recs?

>> Will I need gasket compound? What kind? Also, the AutoZone repair
>> guide refers to a "tail pipe cutter" loaner--what for, and will I need
>> it?
>
>
> no. none. no. not if you use oem & the oem gaskets.

Think I will go OEM--with all the parts the price really isn't bad.

Thanks again, Jim.

TeGGeR® wrote:
> jim beam > wrote in
> :
>
>
>
>>header nuts are less of a problem than you'd think. or at least, not
>>here in california.
>
>
>
> In an area with snow, exhaust manifold nuts are treacherous. There is an
> excellent chance that at least one stud will break off inside the head.
> Then you've got to remove the rad and A/C condenser in order to drill it
> out, while taking excruciating care not to damage the threads in the soft
> aluminum head. You can drill without removing the rad, but it's a lot more
> awkward. Bitch of a job.

This car started out in VA, then spent a couple of years in Buffalo, NY.
When I bought it one of the significant selling points was that it has
hardly any rust--the contrast with my old clunker was quite astonishing.
I may skip the oil pan gasket this time, though (not critical, I think
my engine seal is leaking more, have to look closer), but will try to
soak those nuts in wd40 anyway in case I change my mind. My last car had
the old broken-header-stud problem. Not pretty, but the shop took care
of it.

Is there any reason not to apply a *tiny* bit of super-high-temp urea or
brake grease to the nut threads on re-installation? I suppose it would
just smoke off pretty rapidly, but I wouldn't want it to catch fire.

MAT wrote:
> "Abeness" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>OEM parts cost: Pipe B kit, $132; muffler kit, $124--seems expensive. Is
>>
>>an aftermarket alternative worth considering?
>
>
> It is noteworthy that you get lifetime? replacements for the first OEM Honda
> muffler kit you buy. You'd really have to have your Honda for a long ass
> time to make this work for you but it sounds like a good allocation of
> funds.

Really?? That's pretty remarkable, thanks for the tip. I'm gonna go OEM
anyway if only because the kit includes all the necessary parts and will
fit correctly without massaging (at least I hope I can expect that from
OEM!).

Abeness wrote:
> TeGGeR® wrote:
>
>> jim beam > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>
>>> header nuts are less of a problem than you'd think. or at least, not
>>> here in california.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In an area with snow, exhaust manifold nuts are treacherous. There is
>> an excellent chance that at least one stud will break off inside the
>> head. Then you've got to remove the rad and A/C condenser in order to
>> drill it out, while taking excruciating care not to damage the threads
>> in the soft aluminum head. You can drill without removing the rad, but
>> it's a lot more awkward. Bitch of a job.
>
>
> This car started out in VA, then spent a couple of years in Buffalo, NY.
> When I bought it one of the significant selling points was that it has
> hardly any rust--the contrast with my old clunker was quite astonishing.
> I may skip the oil pan gasket this time, though (not critical, I think
> my engine seal is leaking more, have to look closer), but will try to
> soak those nuts in wd40 anyway in case I change my mind. My last car had
> the old broken-header-stud problem. Not pretty, but the shop took care
> of it.
>
> Is there any reason not to apply a *tiny* bit of super-high-temp urea or
> brake grease to the nut threads on re-installation? I suppose it would
> just smoke off pretty rapidly, but I wouldn't want it to catch fire.

i wouldn't. the nuts are friction locking - and operate in a high
vibration mode. it's not like you need to regularly remove them either.

jim beam wrote:
> Abeness wrote:
>> Is there any reason not to apply a *tiny* bit of super-high-temp urea
>> or brake grease to the nut threads on re-installation? I suppose it
>> would just smoke off pretty rapidly, but I wouldn't want it to catch
>> fire.
>
>
> i wouldn't. the nuts are friction locking - and operate in a high
> vibration mode. it's not like you need to regularly remove them either.
>

Right. Good sense, thanks.

Abeness > wrote in :


> Is there any reason not to apply a *tiny* bit of super-high-temp urea
> or brake grease to the nut threads on re-installation? I suppose it
> would just smoke off pretty rapidly, but I wouldn't want it to catch
> fire.


That's a good idea.

I think I'd apply copper or nickel anti-seize, something with metal in it
that won't burn off. Then lower the torque a little to compensate (10%?).

Other than the possibility of overtorquing (or undertorquing!), I can't see
any drawbacks.

--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/