2000 Concorde LXi Tranmission

In article >,
"maxpower" > wrote:

> The dealership I work at would have charged you 1 hr labor,

Is that what they would have paid you Glenn, one hour?

> In order to
> verify which part is bad you would have had to at least remove the
> connectors to perform the test, therefore half the work was already done.

Misleading at best. There is more to the diagnostic than just
checking the sensor.

> The book that AArcuda is referring too normally says test and replace, .5
> for each sensor. He would be charging you an overlapping time of 1.0 hr.
> ( 1.5 is an average labor price and as I said on the high side)

Really?
Did you check?
Which labor guide did I use?
Chiltons?
Mitchell?
Real Time?

I suspect that you're BSing since that is not what the labor time
guide describes.

Just for the heck of it, I've drafted a letter to Chrysler with most of the
comments made here (no names) concerning fluid change. I'm curious to see
what Chrysler says. When I hear from them, I'll post the results.

Thanks to all of you for the help and comments. I picked up a few pointers.

"aarcuda69062" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "John Gregory" > wrote:
>
>> Welp... here's the outcome; $205.00! Replaced both sensors and billed me
>> for
>> 2 hours labor. Told me there was no need to worry about the transmission
>> fluid; new, improved and designed to withstand the temperatures of hell.
>> They also did a safety bulletin repair for two seat bolts so they got
>> paid
>> by Chrysler for that as well.
>>
>> Did I get rooked?
>
> Nope.
>
> Labor time is;
> diagnose 1.0 hrs
> replace input speed sensor .5 hrs
> replace output speed sensor .5 hrs

"Bill Putney" > wrote in message
...
> maxpower wrote:
>
> > The dealership I work at would have charged you 1 hr labor, In order to
> > verify which part is bad you would have had to at least remove the
> > connectors to perform the test...
>
> Not true.

whats not true?

The fact that, along with the limp mode, the speedometer was
> not working tells you with a fair degree of certainty that the output
> sensor was bad.
>
> I get the impression from some people that some dealers would not do
> certain work, like replace a sensor, without doing and charging for a
> diagnostic. Out of curiosity, if I walked into your dealership and said
> "I am pretty certain that my output sensor is bad. If I agree to pay
> your price for replacing the sensor and accept the possibility that that
> isn't the problem, will you replace the output sensor without charging
> me for a diagnostic test?" would they do that?

And yes if the cust only wanted the part we would have to install the part.
The same as nrake work, if the cust doesnt want the rotors turned, we wont
machine the rotors,
There will be notes on the owners RO
>
> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> adddress with the letter 'x')

"aarcuda69062" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "maxpower" > wrote:
>
> > The dealership I work at would have charged you 1 hr labor,
>
> Is that what they would have paid you Glenn, one hour?
>
> > In order to
> > verify which part is bad you would have had to at least remove the
> > connectors to perform the test, therefore half the work was already
done.
>
> Misleading at best. There is more to the diagnostic than just
> checking the sensor.
>
> > The book that AArcuda is referring too normally says test and replace,
..5
> > for each sensor. He would be charging you an overlapping time of 1.0 hr.
> > ( 1.5 is an average labor price and as I said on the high side)

I wonder if you read the word normally in this statement?

> Really?
> Did you check?
> Which labor guide did I use?
> Chiltons?
> Mitchell?
> Real Time?
>
> I suspect that you're BSing since that is not what the labor time
> guide describes.

"John Gregory" > wrote in message
...
> Just for the heck of it, I've drafted a letter to Chrysler with most of
the
> comments made here (no names) concerning fluid change. I'm curious to see
> what Chrysler says. When I hear from them, I'll post the results.
>
> Thanks to all of you for the help and comments. I picked up a few
pointers.
>
> "aarcuda69062" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "John Gregory" > wrote:
> >
> >> Welp... here's the outcome; $205.00! Replaced both sensors and billed
me
> >> for
> >> 2 hours labor. Told me there was no need to worry about the
transmission
> >> fluid; new, improved and designed to withstand the temperatures of
hell.
> >> They also did a safety bulletin repair for two seat bolts so they got
> >> paid
> >> by Chrysler for that as well.
> >>
> >> Did I get rooked?
> >
> > Nope.
> >
> > Labor time is;
> > diagnose 1.0 hrs
> > replace input speed sensor .5 hrs
> > replace output speed sensor .5 hrs
>
Good luck in getting a reply back from them

maxpower wrote:
> "Bill Putney" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>maxpower wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The dealership I work at would have charged you 1 hr labor, In order to
>>>verify which part is bad you would have had to at least remove the
>>>connectors to perform the test...
>>
>>Not true.
>
>
> whats not true?

Read the very next sentence I wrote. You said that to verify which part
(I assume you mean input vs. output sensor), you have to run a
diagnostic. My very next sentence (still below) says that the fact that
the speeodmeter doesn't work when it goes into limp mode tells you that
it's the output sensor. If the customer already told you that, then you
are ripping him off by charging him to re-discover what he already told
you that completely diagnoses it for you.

> The fact that, along with the limp mode, the speedometer was
>
>>not working tells you with a fair degree of certainty that the output
>>sensor was bad.
>>
>>I get the impression from some people that some dealers would not do
>>certain work, like replace a sensor, without doing and charging for a
>>diagnostic. Out of curiosity, if I walked into your dealership and said
>>"I am pretty certain that my output sensor is bad. If I agree to pay
>>your price for replacing the sensor and accept the possibility that that
>>isn't the problem, will you replace the output sensor without charging
>>me for a diagnostic test?" would they do that?
>
>
> And yes if the cust only wanted the part we would have to install the part.
> The same as nrake work, if the cust doesnt want the rotors turned, we wont
> machine the rotors,
> There will be notes on the owners RO

Well good. So why do you perform and charge for a diagnosis when the
customer already told you the work he wanted done and the diagnosis
won't affect the outcome? That's like going to a doctor with a cut on
your finger, and he won't sew it up until he takes photos of the cut and
sends it off to a specialist to verify that it is indeed cut and that it
needs to be sewn up. For goodness sake - sew it up and quit gouging the
customer with bogus charges.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
adddress with the letter 'x')

In article >,
"maxpower" > wrote:

> I wonder if you read the word normally in this statement?

Yes I did. Your use of the word "normally" suggests that on one
day the page in the labor guide says one thing and on another
day, it says something else.

Oh I'll get one... guaranteed. I asked for the warranty service record on
the '95 Concorde I bought used and they refused to give it to me saying it
was "confidential" between them and the original customer. I gave them my
explanation of why it was public record and they stuck to their guns. I
wrote my Senator (Ohio) and gave my side of the argument. The file arrived
about three weeks later. I'll get an answer. What I'm concerned about is
getting a wishy-washy answer and that is something I can't fight
successfully. "Gotta see the car"... "Each case is different." And they
successfully skit the issue. We'll see what happens.
"maxpower" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John Gregory" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Just for the heck of it, I've drafted a letter to Chrysler with most of
> the
>> comments made here (no names) concerning fluid change. I'm curious to see
>> what Chrysler says. When I hear from them, I'll post the results.
>>
>> Thanks to all of you for the help and comments. I picked up a few
> pointers.
>>
>> "aarcuda69062" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "John Gregory" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Welp... here's the outcome; $205.00! Replaced both sensors and billed
> me
>> >> for
>> >> 2 hours labor. Told me there was no need to worry about the
> transmission
>> >> fluid; new, improved and designed to withstand the temperatures of
> hell.
>> >> They also did a safety bulletin repair for two seat bolts so they got
>> >> paid
>> >> by Chrysler for that as well.
>> >>
>> >> Did I get rooked?
>> >
>> > Nope.
>> >
>> > Labor time is;
>> > diagnose 1.0 hrs
>> > replace input speed sensor .5 hrs
>> > replace output speed sensor .5 hrs
>>
> Good luck in getting a reply back from them
>
>

John Gregory wrote:

> While cruising between 65 and 70 on the throughway this evening, my
> speedometer suddenly (and I do mean suddenly) dropped to zero. I felt a
> slight shift or hesitation and began looking at gages,

Output speed sensor died or connection came loose.

>
>
>
> I pulled out of the station and chose to drive side roads rather than turn
> back on the throughway; a wise decision. The speedometer continued to stay
> at zero and - although I must have been traveling no more than 35 to 40
> miles an hour, the RPMs exceeded 2000;


Without a valid output speed reading, the transmission controller
assumes that the transmission is slipping and reverts to "limp" mode-
you have 2nd gear and reverse, nothing else.

as though I were stuck in first gear.

Second gear, actually.

.. Now I sit here
> shuddering about the call I expect Monday morning;$$$$.
>
Sensors are cheap. Probably $30 or so for the part, plus installation.
>
>
> What are likely root causes of this problem? My '95 Concorde had the
> transmission replaced at 25000. I was "assured" the trans problems were
> corrected. Now another Concorde five years younger - with only 55000 -
> starts sputtering in the drive chain. What the hell's the mater with these
> components?

Nothing inherent. Replace the sensor and get on with life.

maxpower wrote:

> "John Gregory" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Just for the heck of it, I've drafted a letter to Chrysler with most of
>
> the
>
>>comments made here (no names) concerning fluid change. I'm curious to see
>>what Chrysler says. When I hear from them, I'll post the results.


Let me play Karnac the Magnificent, and I'll predict the reply:

---

Dear Mr. Gregory,

Thank you for your letter concerning your DaimlerChrysler product. We
appreciate your business and your concerns are important to us.

Regarding your questions about transmission fluid change intervals,
please refer to your owners manual. Follow the service schedule that
corresponds to the way you use your DaimlerChrysler Vehicle.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if we may be of help in the future.

---

The problem is that your letter will go to some MBA/Marketing type, not
to an engineer. Its that way at all car companies, which is why the rest
of us hang out here to exchange more useful information.

Although, I DID once mention on a new vehicle survey that my '73
Plymouth had over 380,000 miles (at the time, now over 430,000 miles)
and that I expected my wife's (then nearly new, now 220,000 miles) 93
Vision to be at least that good or I'd be really disappointed. They sent
me a nice cast aluminum "Chrysler 100,000 mile club" license plate
frame. So at least they're good for something, although they should
have given me 3.8 "100,000 mile" license plate frames :-p