Why did my lug nut studs break?

I am just curious.

Why did two lug nut studs break on the same wheel? I am pretty sure I was the last one who worked on them. Torqued them to 80 ft/lb in a Cris-cross pattern.

One just broke when I had to put a breaker bar on it when it stopped moving.
When the second one stopped moving I sprayed it with the penetrating oil but still could not save it. When I finally removed it the threads were stripped.

The vehicle is 1999 Accord, 4 cylinder with 136000 miles on it.

Regards,
Sam

somick > wrote in
:

> I am just curious.
>
> Why did two lug nut studs break on the same wheel? I am pretty sure I
> was the last one who worked on them. Torqued them to 80 ft/lb in a
> Cris-cross pattern.
>
> One just broke when I had to put a breaker bar on it when it stopped
> moving. When the second one stopped moving I sprayed it with the
> penetrating oil but still could not save it. When I finally removed it
> the threads were stripped.
>
> The vehicle is 1999 Accord, 4 cylinder with 136000 miles on it.
>



Wheel lugs break because somebody severely overtorqued them at some point.
And I mean "severely" as in, "somebody jumped on the wrench to tighten
them".

Or they seize due to rust, and then break when somebody tries to force them
over the rust by jumping on the wrench. Are these acorn nuts or the kind
with open ends?

Cross-threading is /extremely/ unlikely.

How do you know the threads were stripped? Did you remove the remains of
the stud from the nut? That's the only way to tell for sure. And removal
sometimes requires cutting the nut in half, which ain't easily done.





--
Tegger

Tegger > wrote:
>
>Wheel lugs break because somebody severely overtorqued them at some point.
>And I mean "severely" as in, "somebody jumped on the wrench to tighten
>them".

And that point could have been years ago. They could have had tiny cracks
in them for a long time, through several tire changes, and then suddenly
failed.

>Or they seize due to rust, and then break when somebody tries to force them
>over the rust by jumping on the wrench. Are these acorn nuts or the kind
>with open ends?

Given the description of the original poster, this is probably what happened.
I've done it myself.

>Cross-threading is /extremely/ unlikely.
>
>How do you know the threads were stripped? Did you remove the remains of
>the stud from the nut? That's the only way to tell for sure. And removal
>sometimes requires cutting the nut in half, which ain't easily done.

If the thing has ever been driven with the nuts all loose, it can goober
up the threads and make them look like they are stripped. And again, this
could have happened a decade ago.

My suggestion is not to worry about it, but to use anti-seize, to always
use the torque wrench, and don't let the kids at the chain tire store touch
your car.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 9 Jul 2014 09:43:47 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Given the description of the original poster, this is probably what happened.
> I've done it myself.

Chryslers used to have left-hand threads on one side of the vehicle, so I
snapped off a couple before I had figured that one out when I was a kid!

Luckily, they're trivial to replace.

On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 9:12:10 AM UTC-8, somick wrote:
> I am just curious.
>
>
>
> Why did two lug nut studs break on the same wheel? I am pretty sure I was the last one who worked on them. Torqued them to 80 ft/lb in a Cris-cross pattern.
>
>
>
> One just broke when I had to put a breaker bar on it when it stopped moving.
>
> When the second one stopped moving I sprayed it with the penetrating oil but still could not save it. When I finally removed it the threads were stripped.
>
>
>
> The vehicle is 1999 Accord, 4 cylinder with 136000 miles on it.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Sam

Thank you Tegger and Scott for replying.

The nuts are acorn style.

They were not cross-threaded. I usually turn them by hand until they touch the rim, impact them for a second and finally torque them with the torque wrench. If there would be any resistance when I installed them, I would have stopped and investigated.

I just realized that I was going to reuse the two old nuts and they did not want to go. So I used all four new nuts that I bought at Pep Boys. Probably old Honda nuts have reached their end of life. This is sad. I prefer Honda's stuff. The car needs new tires. So I will most likely replace lug nuts on the rest of three wheels.

The nuts COULD be overtorqued in the past. I bought the car with 55000 miles from a friend who worked at a garage. The clowns there could have done anything.

Scott,
There have been few discussions about lubing the lug nut threads. With all my respect to you, I prefer not use anything on the threads. As far as I understand the torque value provided is a dry torque.

Regards,
Sam

somick > wrote:
>
>Scott,
>There have been few discussions about lubing the lug nut threads. With all=
> my respect to you, I prefer not use anything on the threads. As far as I =
>understand the torque value provided is a dry torque.

Do not lube them! You can use anti-seize and it will not affect the setting
torque value. Anti-seize is not lubricant!

If you prefer not to use anti-seize, just make sure you loosen and tighten
them every once in a while.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On Wed, 9 Jul 2014 10:22:11 -0700 (PDT), somick >
wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 9:12:10 AM UTC-8, somick wrote:
>> I am just curious.
>>
>>
>>
>> Why did two lug nut studs break on the same wheel? I am pretty sure I was the last one who worked on them. Torqued them to 80 ft/lb in a Cris-cross pattern.
>>
>>
>>
>> One just broke when I had to put a breaker bar on it when it stopped moving.
>>
>> When the second one stopped moving I sprayed it with the penetrating oil but still could not save it. When I finally removed it the threads were stripped.
>>
>>
>>
>> The vehicle is 1999 Accord, 4 cylinder with 136000 miles on it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Sam
>
>Thank you Tegger and Scott for replying.
>
>The nuts are acorn style.
>
>They were not cross-threaded. I usually turn them by hand until they touch the rim, impact them for a second and finally torque them with the torque wrench. If there would be any resistance when I installed them, I would have stopped and investigated.
>
>I just realized that I was going to reuse the two old nuts and they did not want to go. So I used all four new nuts that I bought at Pep Boys. Probably old Honda nuts have reached their end of life. This is sad. I prefer Honda's stuff. The car needs new tires. So I will most likely replace lug nuts on the rest of three wheels.
>
>The nuts COULD be overtorqued in the past. I bought the car with 55000 miles from a friend who worked at a garage. The clowns there could have done anything.
>
>Scott,
>There have been few discussions about lubing the lug nut threads. With all my respect to you, I prefer not use anything on the threads. As far as I understand the torque value provided is a dry torque.
>
>Regards,
>Sam

I wonder if you put SAE threads/size lug nuts on metric lugs when you
got those PEP boys replacements.

On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 5:03:12 PM UTC-7, Ashton Crusher wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Jul 2014 10:22:11 -0700 (PDT)
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Tuesday, July 8, 2014 9:12:10 AM UTC-8, somick wrote:
>
> >> I am just curious.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Why did two lug nut studs break on the same wheel? I am pretty sure I was the last one who worked on them. Torqued them to 80 ft/lb in a Cris-cross pattern.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> One just broke when I had to put a breaker bar on it when it stopped moving.
>
> >>
>
> >> When the second one stopped moving I sprayed it with the penetrating oil but still could not save it. When I finally removed it the threads were stripped.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> The vehicle is 1999 Accord, 4 cylinder with 136000 miles on it.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Regards,
>
> >>
>
> >> Sam
>
> >
>
> >Thank you Tegger and Scott for replying.
>
> >
>
> >The nuts are acorn style.
>
> >
>
> >They were not cross-threaded. I usually turn them by hand until they touch the rim, impact them for a second and finally torque them with the torque wrench. If there would be any resistance when I installed them, I would have stopped and investigated.
>
> >
>
> >I just realized that I was going to reuse the two old nuts and they did not want to go. So I used all four new nuts that I bought at Pep Boys. Probably old Honda nuts have reached their end of life. This is sad. I prefer Honda's stuff. The car needs new tires. So I will most likely replace lug nuts on the rest of three wheels.
>
> >
>
> >The nuts COULD be overtorqued in the past. I bought the car with 55000 miles from a friend who worked at a garage. The clowns there could have done anything.
>
> >
>
> >Scott,
>
> >There have been few discussions about lubing the lug nut threads. With all my respect to you, I prefer not use anything on the threads. As far as I understand the torque value provided is a dry torque.
>
> >
>
> >Regards,
>
> >Sam
>
>
>
> I wonder if you put SAE threads/size lug nuts on metric lugs when you
>
> got those PEP boys replacements.


The lug nuts that failed were original ones. The new ones from Pet Boys did fit, what really surprised me! They even have the rings that hold the hub cap from falling. The bad thing is that the rings are made of a quite soft material (fiber?) and most likely will eventually fail.

But seven dollar at Pet Boys vs thirty dollar at the dealer made me go towards the Pet Boys.

Sam